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Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

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Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Not sure I understand the argument of the last couple of pages.

Of course the gun was invented as a tool of warfare, with a design to kill people. Humans found a secondary use in the form of hunting. Sharpshooting competitions similarly followed.

But that doesn't make the gun inherently evil, or justify limiting its access no more than early medical uses of cocaine justify widespread distribution today. Like scissors and knives and and chainsaws and thousands of other things, guns are simply inanimate objects that are capable of being misused to the point of life threatening danger to the user, another party or both.
 
SJHovey said:
Not sure I understand the argument of the last couple of pages.

Of course the gun was invented as a tool of warfare, with a design to kill people. Humans found a secondary use in the form of hunting. Sharpshooting competitions similarly followed.

But that doesn't make the gun inherently evil, or justify limiting its access no more than early medical uses of cocaine justify widespread distribution today. Like scissors and knives and and chainsaws and thousands of other things, guns are simply inanimate objects that are capable of being misused to the point of life threatening danger to the user, another party or both.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree that a gun is no more dangerous than a knife or thousands of other inanimate object.

It might be on par with some heavy industrial machinery, but then those machines are generally regulated heavily by OSHA.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

SJHovey said:
Not sure I understand the argument of the last couple of pages.

Of course the gun was invented as a tool of warfare, with a design to kill people. Humans found a secondary use in the form of hunting. Sharpshooting competitions similarly followed.

But that doesn't make the gun inherently evil, or justify limiting its access no more than early medical uses of cocaine justify widespread distribution today. Like scissors and knives and and chainsaws and thousands of other things, guns are simply inanimate objects that are capable of being misused to the point of life threatening danger to the user, another party or both.
Click to expand...

We regulate guns less than cars. We have a no fly list but not a no gun list. My right to travel/fly is less important than my right to own a gun.

That's ****ed up no matter how you slice it.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

ScoobyDoo said:
We regulate guns less than cars. We have a no fly list but not a no gun list. My right to travel/fly is less important than my right to own a gun.

That's ****ed up no matter how you slice it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree.

If I'm going to go to a sporting good store, I need to go through a background check. No background check if you go to a dealer to buy a car. If you're buying used, from a private party, neither currently require a background check. So, in the first case, guns are more regulated, the second, they're the same.

If I'm going to carry a gun (using MN laws here, since that is what I'm familiar with) I need a concealed carry permit. If I'm going to drive on the roads, I need a drivers license. Both regulated. Neither need any license to own. If I'm going to go target shooting, I don't need a permit or license, but also, if I were to go drive a car in a field on private property, I don't need a drivers license either.

They are regulated about the same, with purchases of guns being more regulated.

Also, the no-gun list, we have laws stating that felons cannot own guns, its not called a "no-gun" list but we do have a class of people that are not allowed. The issue there is, does it need to be expanded to additional people with mental issues, or suspected terrorists. If we do this, we just need to make sure that there is a process in place to quickly remove people that are put on the list accidentally, and that it isn't easy for an individual to get someone on the list just because they have a grudge or something like that.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

ScoobyDoo said:
We regulate speech. We regulate Churches. We regulate everything in the Constitution. Your argument is BS.
Click to expand...

There's something like 19,000 existing laws in the USA regulating firearms. They're regulated.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

The Sicatoka said:
Can you point me to the Constitutional Amendment regarding the right to a car?
Click to expand...

Again, back to my question before- what makes the 2nd free from regulation and definition?

Besides what Scooby points out, we define what cruel means- and it changes, we limit voting with regulations, etc etc- there are regulations around the rest of the amendments- but this one can't even interpreted differently.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

ScoobyDoo said:
We regulate guns less than cars. We have a no fly list but not a no gun list. My right to travel/fly is less important than my right to own a gun.

That's ****ed up no matter how you slice it.
Click to expand...
I think we do have a no gun list. I think if you've been convicted of a felony, you're placed on it. I think people are placed on it if they've been adjudicated mentally ill (not sure of exactly what the precise standard is). I think some domestic assault offenders are placed on it. There may be others.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

bigblue_dl said:
I'm not sure I agree.

If I'm going to go to a sporting good store, I need to go through a background check. No background check if you go to a dealer to buy a car. If you're buying used, from a private party, neither currently require a background check. So, in the first case, guns are more regulated, the second, they're the same.

If I'm going to carry a gun (using MN laws here, since that is what I'm familiar with) I need a concealed carry permit. If I'm going to drive on the roads, I need a drivers license. Both regulated. Neither need any license to own. If I'm going to go target shooting, I don't need a permit or license, but also, if I were to go drive a car in a field on private property, I don't need a drivers license either.

They are regulated about the same, with purchases of guns being more regulated.

Also, the no-gun list, we have laws stating that felons cannot own guns, its not called a "no-gun" list but we do have a class of people that are not allowed. The issue there is, does it need to be expanded to additional people with mental issues, or suspected terrorists. If we do this, we just need to make sure that there is a process in place to quickly remove people that are put on the list accidentally, and that it isn't easy for an individual to get someone on the list just because they have a grudge or something like that.
Click to expand...

I'll go back to my original comment. It's easier for me to own a gun than it is for me to own and operate a car or travel on an airplane. That's ****ed up.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

St. Clown said:
There's something like 19,000 existing laws in the USA regulating firearms. They're regulated.
Click to expand...

If true, what's wrong with a few more, then? Like limiting clip sizes and whatnot.

And if people need ID's to vote- which is an amendment- why can't a ID requirement for all guns be allowed?
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

alfablue said:
Again, back to my question before- what makes the 2nd free from regulation and definition?

Besides what Scooby points out, we define what cruel means- and it changes, we limit voting with regulations, etc etc- there are regulations around the rest of the amendments- but this one can't even interpreted differently.
Click to expand...
I cannot carry a concealed weapon without a permit.
I cannot purchase a handgun without a permit.
I cannot purchase any gun without a background check.
I cannot have a loaded or uncased gun in a motor vehicle.
I cannot buy an automatic weapon.
I cannot carry in many buildings/restaurants etc, even with the proper training and permit.
I cannot use lead shot to hunt waterfowl.
I cannot use buckshot to hunt deer.

So what isn't regulated again?
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

ScoobyDoo said:
I'll go back to my original comment. It's easier for me to own a gun than it is for me to own and operate a car or travel on an airplane. That's ****ed up.
Click to expand...

No, no it is not easier. It is the same thing, if not harder to buy/own a gun.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

alfablue said:
If true, what's wrong with a few more, then? Like limiting clip sizes and whatnot.

And if people need ID's to vote- which is an amendment- why can't a ID requirement for all guns be allowed?
Click to expand...
Would adding more gun laws to our existing plethora of laws have done anything to stop this man who had no prior criminal record? Yes, he was under investigation by federal authorities, but being under investigation is not cause to deny someone their rights as he was never charged, least of all found guilty. He had a clean criminal record up until Saturday night. What law could you reasonably create that would have prevented such an attack? After entering that night club, he has already broken countless laws concerning existing weapons laws. What good would adding a couple more onto the heap do?
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

ScoobyDoo said:
We regulate speech. We regulate Churches. We regulate everything in the Constitution. Your argument is BS.
Click to expand...

We regulate guns now too.
Go to Cabella's, right now, and try to buy a long gun, shot gun, or hand gun.
They'll be running you through the FBI database as part of the sale.
 
Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

The Sicatoka said:
We regulate guns now too.
Go to Cabella's, right now, and try to buy a long gun, shot gun, or hand gun.
They'll be running you through the FBI database as part of the sale.
Click to expand...
And if you try to buy a handgun (or an AR, FYI) they'll tell you leave and come back with a purchase permit.
 
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