Covid 19

[e.cat]

This is not a political thing. It is a public health thing. If you don't get that then no helping you.

Nurses coming out in Mass letting people know they are being asked to use unsafe medical practice to keep themselves and patients safe- change to re-using masks, change in protocols to what is being used for MRSA, VRSA, and other things that previously would have had isolation, full PPE gear. Hitting the news now but on private FB groups this had been coming out a lot for the last week- first in smaller community hospitals and now in big medical centers.

Also in Mass- a number of Docs and other folk on medical team testing positive. Decreasing the staff available to treat.

I would love to believe that this is not a political thing but your posts indicate to me otherwise!

 

[Wayuphere]

If we are going down this road... it's kind of reminiscent of the failed cancer drug, AZT, being the first drug given to HIV/AIDS patients. Not successful, but, it was a start I guess? As per today...I lost it when he made callous remarks about the 'absence of media' in the room, how 'nice that was'...etc. Took it kind of personally as my daughter writes for a paper in Maine, and, my brother has worked for the Boston Globe, a couple of NH newspapers, and is a lecturer at a dedicated journalism college in the Southwest. "Put on a bandana" is the best we can do in this country? Throwing out those lies of treatments etc. is highly irresponsible, if I may add... Loved seeing the tweets from Trump to China in January, praising them for their work on getting this present coronavirus under control...now, they are the scape goat. How convenient.

God bless the health care workers in this country. Also those left in retail trying to deal

I can confirm this. My daughter is a RN at a large nearby hospital. Yesterday she spent 12 hours screening for the virus. Had to wear the same mask, no switching out between patients. Basically, PPE rationing in effect.

She and my 2y/o grandson are staying with us as her father-in-law is in chemo and staying with her husband. She cannot be near him. So now we have to worry about what she brings home with her to us each night. Can’t go near my 88 y/o mother as we basically have to assume we are positive.
Get tested, impossible. Hospital PPE is running low so the in house threat will continue. I get the possible contamination, it comes with the territory but give them a fighting chance to stay healthy. If this goes really bad we are really going to need them.
I honestly fear a direct shot of virus from her externally compared to someone sneezing on me in public, and she is a infection control nazi too but it can happen to the best of them.

 

[Wayuphere]

You left wing loonies must need someone to talk you off the ledge right about now!

Okay. Just so you know, long time registered independent who voted mostly republican until they all disappeared up trumps behind.

I didn’t drink the koolaid......

 

[HockeyRef]

If we are going down this road... it's kind of reminiscent of the failed cancer drug, AZT, being the first drug given to HIV/AIDS patients. Not successful, but, it was a start I guess? As per today...I lost it when he made callous remarks about the 'absence of media' in the room, how 'nice that was'...etc. Took it kind of personally as my daughter writes for a paper in Maine, and, my brother has worked for the Boston Globe, a couple of NH newspapers, and is a lecturer at a dedicated journalism college in the Southwest. "Put on a bandana" is the best we can do in this country? Throwing out those lies of treatments etc. is highly irresponsible, if I may add... Loved seeing the tweets from Trump to China in January, praising them for their work on getting this present coronavirus under control...now, they are the scape goat. How convenient.

God bless the health care workers in this country. Also those left in retail trying to deal

I can confirm this. My daughter is a RN at a large nearby hospital. Yesterday she spent 12 hours screening for the virus. Had to wear the same mask, no switching out between patients. Basically, PPE rationing in effect.

She and my 2y/o grandson are staying with us as her father-in-law is in chemo and staying with her husband. She cannot be near him. So now we have to worry about what she brings home with her to us each night. Can’t go near my 88 y/o mother as we basically have to assume we are positive.
Get tested, impossible. Hospital PPE is running low so the in house threat will continue. I get the possible contamination, it comes with the territory but give them a fighting chance to stay healthy. If this goes really bad we are really going to need them.
I honestly fear a direct shot of virus from her externally compared to someone sneezing on me in public, and she is a infection control nazi too but it can happen to the best of them.

Wow..you are prob right to assume you could be infected..social distancing is all you can do as getting a test right now for asymptomatic people is not in the playbook. I wish you all well and please thank your daughter for me. My niece is a respiratory therapist at Beth Israel...shes young amd healthy but I worry just the same. Be well!!

Ps...prelim data suggest that 4 out 10 that are being hospitalized are in the 20 to 54 year old age group

 

[leswp1]

Re: Covid 19

I would love to believe that this is not a political thing but your posts indicate to me otherwise!

OK. Having had more than a few public health maxims drilled into me through 2 Degrees, >36 yrs as a nurse and 28 of those yrs in Family Practice (including our office being consulted re a lot of different public health issues as the town 'doc' for schools) watching the incompetence and irresponsibility makes me unreasonably frustrated. Add to that I have been following the predictions this will happen since they were talking about it somewhere are 2014 including the alarms sounded and the recommendations made.

Too lazy to go back and find all my posts but I can tell you every thing I posted regarding what would happen and in what order if we didn't respond has been spot on. There is no reason for us to be in this position. None. Until a few years ago we had experts running the agencies that are needed in this situation. Now we do not. We have done nothing that follows what science or medicine would recommend in a timely manner.

I am ridiculously frustrated that people will die, the country is in full FUBAR because of incompetence and the willingness of medical professionals (excluding Dr Fauci who should be cannonized) to ignore ethics and public health principles in order to keep the President happy. He is childlike. No one can deny his inability to deal with unpleasantness. His answer is to bluster, bully and be unpredictable to get what he wants. Might work in business but not in medicine. Germs don't give a fvck for this behaviour. They just continue to spread. The few Docs he appointed (the other people are not experts) had a responsibility to speak out. Korea has had a system since SARS to deal with this. We started but then decided it wasn't a priority.

Even if we were behind the 8 ball as far as being prepared to have a response, we could have mitigated this by showing cohesive, clear messaging and listening to those who were expert to slow spread. This has not happened. Messaging until late last week was almost exclusively denial and focused on the economy and Market. ALmost every statement coming from the White Houseabout the actual problem needed correcting by NIH, WHO or CDC.

In all honesty a Public Health student could do a better job than our gov't at this point. This is morally abhorrent. My state's medical system is very robust. We have more medical providers, beds and specialists than most other states. We are in trouble. Just on the news- our governor saying he was told by the Feds we should have bid more for supplies if we wanted them. None of this is OK. Medicine and public health should not be run in this way. Those people who are from states that do not have our resources are going to have really, really bad outcomes. Is this OK? NO.

This should be a time to get your facts right, give a clear message. If you can't understand the facts let the experts speak. This should not be a time to attempt to spin things to look good, give people false information to get them to think things are better, reassure people with false or partially true statements.

Even my friends who have been full on Trumpeters because of the economy are saying they have heard so many versions of the truth coming out of the WH they can't figure out what to believe.

Public Health principles-
1. identify causative factors
2. identify affected individuals or groups of individuals
3. attempt to contain causitive agent / individuals, vectors, fomites.
4. Prevent- educate re causative agent using clear, cohesive message. Provide information re cause, action needed, what will happen if action is taken and what will happen if it is not.
5. Prevent- If information is not known do not postulate without identifying information is not 100% sure
5. Prevent- correct false information, attempt to decrease spread of false information.
6. Provide information regarding potential measures that may be necessary.
7. Identify qualified individuals with expertise to help manage plan
8. if specific supplies/resources are needed these should be identified, cataloged and triage should occur to determine need.

How many of these have been done in a timely manner? Some of it has not been done at all.

 

[HockeyRef]

OK. Having had more than a few public health maxims drilled into me through 2 Degrees, >36 yrs as a nurse and 28 of those yrs in Family Practice (including our office being consulted re a lot of different public health issues as the town 'doc' for schools) watching the incompetence and irresponsibility makes me unreasonably frustrated. Add to that I have been following the predictions this will happen since they were talking about it somewhere are 2014 including the alarms sounded and the recommendations made.

Too lazy to go back and find all my posts but I can tell you every thing I posted regarding what would happen and in what order if we didn't respond has been spot on. There is no reason for us to be in this position. None. Until a few years ago we had experts running the agencies that are needed in this situation. Now we do not. We have done nothing that follows what science or medicine would recommend in a timely manner.

I am ridiculously frustrated that people will die, the country is in full FUBAR because of incompetence and the willingness of medical professionals (excluding Dr Fauci who should be cannonized) to ignore ethics and public health principles in order to keep the President happy. He is childlike. No one can deny his inability to deal with unpleasantness. His answer is to bluster, bully and be unpredictable to get what he wants. Might work in business but not in medicine. Germs don't give a fvck for this behaviour. They just continue to spread. The few Docs he appointed (the other people are not experts) had a responsibility to speak out. Korea has had a system since SARS to deal with this. We started but then decided it wasn't a priority.

Even if we were behind the 8 ball as far as being prepared to have a response, we could have mitigated this by showing cohesive, clear messaging and listening to those who were expert to slow spread. This has not happened. Messaging until late last week was almost exclusively denial and focused on the economy and Market. ALmost every statement coming from the White Houseabout the actual problem needed correcting by NIH, WHO or CDC.

In all honesty a Public Health student could do a better job than our gov't at this point. This is morally abhorrent. My state's medical system is very robust. We have more medical providers, beds and specialists than most other states. We are in trouble. Just on the news- our governor saying he was told by the Feds we should have bid more for supplies if we wanted them. None of this is OK. Medicine and public health should not be run in this way. Those people who are from states that do not have our resources are going to have really, really bad outcomes. Is this OK? NO.

This should be a time to get your facts right, give a clear message. If you can't understand the facts let the experts speak. This should not be a time to attempt to spin things to look good, give people false information to get them to think things are better, reassure people with false or partially true statements.

Even my friends who have been full on Trumpeters because of the economy are saying they have heard so many versions of the truth coming out of the WH they can't figure out what to believe.

Public Health principles-
1. identify causative factors
2. identify affected individuals or groups of individuals
3. attempt to contain causitive agent / individuals, vectors, fomites.
4. Prevent- educate re causative agent using clear, cohesive message. Provide information re cause, action needed, what will happen if action is taken and what will happen if it is not.
5. Prevent- If information is not known do not postulate without identifying information is not 100% sure
5. Prevent- correct false information, attempt to decrease spread of false information.
6. Provide information regarding potential measures that may be necessary.
7. Identify qualified individuals with expertise to help manage plan
8. if specific supplies/resources are needed these should be identified, cataloged and triage should occur to determine need.

How many of these have been done in a timely manner? Some of it has not been done at all.

+100000.

 

[e.cat]

Okay. Just so you know, long time registered independent who voted mostly republican until they all disappeared up trumps behind.

I didn’t drink the koolaid......

Just so you know, registered Democrat when I was young cuz I have heart, independent since and have voted Republican starting with Reagan cuz I have a brain!

 

[leswp1]

Re: Covid 19

Just so you know, Democrat when I was young cuz I have heart, independent since and have voted Republican since Reagan because I have a brain!

Independent. Have voted all parties dependent on who had a brain for what was needed at the time.

 

[Darius]

Re: Covid 19

Where has Dr. Fauci been the past two days? Hope he's just busy fighting this issue...? Waiting for that question to be asked in one of these health 'briefings' if he doesn't return...

Anyway, today's Butcher's Bill: 11,000 cases in the U.S. (hardest hit, NY, Washington (state) and, Cali) 164 deaths.

I am sure he is and probably using it as an excuse to not be part of the parade. I'd love to be a fly on the wall hearing them prep for praise before these briefings. Today was off the rails.

 

[e.cat]

OK. Having had more than a few public health maxims drilled into me through 2 Degrees, >36 yrs as a nurse and 28 of those yrs in Family Practice (including our office being consulted re a lot of different public health issues as the town 'doc' for schools) watching the incompetence and irresponsibility makes me unreasonably frustrated. Add to that I have been following the predictions this will happen since they were talking about it somewhere are 2014 including the alarms sounded and the recommendations made.

Too lazy to go back and find all my posts but I can tell you every thing I posted regarding what would happen and in what order if we didn't respond has been spot on. There is no reason for us to be in this position. None. Until a few years ago we had experts running the agencies that are needed in this situation. Now we do not. We have done nothing that follows what science or medicine would recommend in a timely manner.

I am ridiculously frustrated that people will die, the country is in full FUBAR because of incompetence and the willingness of medical professionals (excluding Dr Fauci who should be cannonized) to ignore ethics and public health principles in order to keep the President happy. He is childlike. No one can deny his inability to deal with unpleasantness. His answer is to bluster, bully and be unpredictable to get what he wants. Might work in business but not in medicine. Germs don't give a fvck for this behaviour. They just continue to spread. The few Docs he appointed (the other people are not experts) had a responsibility to speak out. Korea has had a system since SARS to deal with this. We started but then decided it wasn't a priority.

Even if we were behind the 8 ball as far as being prepared to have a response, we could have mitigated this by showing cohesive, clear messaging and listening to those who were expert to slow spread. This has not happened. Messaging until late last week was almost exclusively denial and focused on the economy and Market. ALmost every statement coming from the White Houseabout the actual problem needed correcting by NIH, WHO or CDC.

In all honesty a Public Health student could do a better job than our gov't at this point. This is morally abhorrent. My state's medical system is very robust. We have more medical providers, beds and specialists than most other states. We are in trouble. Just on the news- our governor saying he was told by the Feds we should have bid more for supplies if we wanted them. None of this is OK. Medicine and public health should not be run in this way. Those people who are from states that do not have our resources are going to have really, really bad outcomes. Is this OK? NO.

This should be a time to get your facts right, give a clear message. If you can't understand the facts let the experts speak. This should not be a time to attempt to spin things to look good, give people false information to get them to think things are better, reassure people with false or partially true statements.

Even my friends who have been full on Trumpeters because of the economy are saying they have heard so many versions of the truth coming out of the WH they can't figure out what to believe.

Public Health principles-
1. identify causative factors
2. identify affected individuals or groups of individuals
3. attempt to contain causitive agent / individuals, vectors, fomites.
4. Prevent- educate re causative agent using clear, cohesive message. Provide information re cause, action needed, what will happen if action is taken and what will happen if it is not.
5. Prevent- If information is not known do not postulate without identifying information is not 100% sure
5. Prevent- correct false information, attempt to decrease spread of false information.
6. Provide information regarding potential measures that may be necessary.
7. Identify qualified individuals with expertise to help manage plan
8. if specific supplies/resources are needed these should be identified, cataloged and triage should occur to determine need.

How many of these have been done in a timely manner? Some of it has not been done at all.

Lot to unpack there but you lost me quickly with the "incompetence and irresponsibility" comments. Trump, it seems to me, has assembled a very strong team. The one member of the Trump team I have reservations about is Fauci though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's been around in one capacity or another for a very long time. If anyone should have seen this coming it should have been him. Having said that, we're talking about a crisis of biblical proportions by all accounts.

 

[Wayuphere]

I am sure he is and probably using it as an excuse to not be part of the parade. I'd love to be a fly on the wall hearing them prep for praise before these briefings. Today was off the rails.

He just turned 80 I believe. I thought he was on CNN live last night with Cuomo. Maybe due to his age and the infectious lalaland of others on that podium he thought it wise to put some distance between himself and the faithful headbobbers in the background.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Covid 19

Lot to unpack there but you lost me quickly with the "incompetence and irresponsibility" comments. Trump, it seems to me, has assembled a very strong team. The one member of the Trump team I have reservations about is Fauci though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's been around in one capacity or another for a very long time. If anyone should have seen this coming it should have been him. Having said that, we're talking about a crisis of biblical proportions by all accounts.

They did you ****ing ignoramus. They went through a pandemic simulation with the Trump team before he even took office. They fired the pandemic team anyways.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Covid 19

Lot to unpack there but you lost me quickly with the "incompetence and irresponsibility" comments. Trump, it seems to me, has assembled a very strong team. The one member of the Trump team I have reservations about is Fauci though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's been around in one capacity or another for a very long time. If anyone should have seen this coming it should have been him. Having said that, we're talking about a crisis of biblical proportions by all accounts.

Well, you lost me at he has assembled a very strong team.
The guy at CDC who should be taking lead? Crickets- he is not qualified. Go check how he has dealt with past epidemics. CDC page is not up to date, testing lagging. Are you seeing any public service announcements before this week? how many have you seen? They had the system in place before. I worked thru the H1N1. I know it worked. Quickly and effectively. This is night and day.
The Surgeon General- another unqualified, inept individual- I went to look for a statement from him weeks ago when he should be responding- he was tweeting- chiding people for not being fair to the prez but no official statement to be found- through 3 diff Google searches
HHS- another guy who was a political appointment- they are supposed to be marshaling resources, providing leadership- ???

Then we have the task force-
Pence who screwed up the whole HIV thing in his home state
Kushner who has no expertise
The change to classify all the updates to muzzle people speaking out.

This is stupid. This isn't a crisis that is a tool to manipulate to stroke someone's ego, get someone elected, or repay someone for favors. And until people start to figure out that politics need to get the fvck out then we will see more deaths than we should, more disruption than we should and longer.

This is not about politics. This is about competence and the need to let the experts do their job.

 

[walrus]

Re: Covid 19

This is not a political thing. It is a public health thing. If you don't get that then no helping you.

Nurses coming out in Mass letting people know they are being asked to use unsafe medical practice to keep themselves and patients safe- change to re-using masks, change in protocols to what is being used for MRSA, VRSA, and other things that previously would have had isolation, full PPE gear. Hitting the news now but on private FB groups this had been coming out a lot for the last week- first in smaller community hospitals and now in big medical centers.

Also in Mass- a number of Docs and other folk on medical team testing positive. Decreasing the staff available to treat.

One of my neighbors, doctor and a nurse. I asked both about PPE and training in correct use. Dr was upbeat, quick to answer, all kinds of PPE, yes we know how to use it. Nurse was quiet and then said the stuff we have doesn't work.

 

[Wayuphere]

Re: Covid 19

Using surgical masks(no protection from virus) instead of N95 masks.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Covid 19

Well, you lost me at he has assembled a very strong team.
The guy at CDC who should be taking lead? Crickets- he is not qualified. Go check how he has dealt with past epidemics. CDC page is not up to date, testing lagging. Are you seeing any public service announcements before this week? how many have you seen? They had the system in place before. I worked thru the H1N1. I know it worked. Quickly and effectively. This is night and day.
The Surgeon General- another unqualified, inept individual- I went to look for a statement from him weeks ago when he should be responding- he was tweeting- chiding people for not being fair to the prez but no official statement to be found- through 3 diff Google searches
HHS- another guy who was a political appointment- they are supposed to be marshaling resources, providing leadership- ???

Then we have the task force-
Pence who screwed up the whole HIV thing in his home state
Kushner who has no expertise
The change to classify all the updates to muzzle people speaking out.

This is stupid. This isn't a crisis that is a tool to manipulate to stroke someone's ego, get someone elected, or repay someone for favors. And until people start to figure out that politics need to get the fvck out then we will see more deaths than we should, more disruption than we should and longer.

This is not about politics. This is about competence and the need to let the experts do their job.

This.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Covid 19

One of my neighbors, doctor and a nurse. I asked both about PPE and training in correct use. Dr was upbeat, quick to answer, all kinds of PPE, yes we know how to use it. Nurse was quiet and then said the stuff we have doesn't work.

This too.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Covid 19

Lot to unpack there but you lost me quickly with the "incompetence and irresponsibility" comments. Trump, it seems to me, has assembled a very strong team. The one member of the Trump team I have reservations about is Fauci though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's been around in one capacity or another for a very long time. If anyone should have seen this coming it should have been him. Having said that, we're talking about a crisis of biblical proportions by all accounts.

Fauci is the only person making sense in this moronic administration.

Good God. Are you willing to sacrifice your grandmother's life just to kowtow to Trump?

We should have ramped-up preparation just as soon as Wu Han got out of the bag, but your pet idiot was afraid that his Q rating would suffer.

I wish my mother lived in South Korea right now, where the leadership has Brain Cell One.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Covid 19

He and his impressive team are doing a fantastic job.

You left wing loonies must need someone to talk you off the ledge right about now!

Trump is now very liberal Gov. Cuomos' new best friend!

I would love to believe that this is not a political thing but your posts indicate to me otherwise!

Lot to unpack there but you lost me quickly with the "incompetence and irresponsibility" comments. Trump, it seems to me, has assembled a very strong team. The one member of the Trump team I have reservations about is Fauci though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's been around in one capacity or another for a very long time. If anyone should have seen this coming it should have been him. Having said that, we're talking about a crisis of biblical proportions by all accounts.

<img src="https://i.imgur.com/NJ1BQQa.png"></img>

 

[Wayuphere]

Re: Covid 19

https://youtu.be/qgylp3Td1Bw

Hope this link works, YouTube running clock. If already posted, apologies.
So interesting is the layout, but ominous.