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Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

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Like I said, there's a certain segment of our populace that refuses to understand to or simply doesn't understand the difference between accidental leak of a natural virus and human-directed manipulation of said virus.

No one - not even that evil lefty mainstream media - called the accidental leak from a lab a conspiracy theory. Saying it's unlikely and to be cautious because it is perilously close to conspiracy theories is not the same thing as simply dismissing it.


Not sure which one Hovey is, but here we are not talking about the virus but about those poor, persecuted conservatives (who have been wrong on literally everything).



Anyway, the criticism of this report has been pretty thorough. The evidence they site for a lab leak mostly boils down to "well, it's nearby the lab, and some of the lab workers go to this market, and we don't really know because the CCP never stops lying, and these other reports [that reach the opposite conclusion] suggest possible-but-unverified links."
 
They have proven nothing. But now, and forever more, the narrative will be that the virus was engineered and released by China. That in itself is a huge fucking problem but that's America the most fucked up country on Planet Earth when it comes to truth.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
They have proven nothing. But now, and forever more, the narrative will be that the virus was engineered and released by China.
Click to expand...

The people who latch onto this evidence for that conclusion were just study-shopping to confirm their predetermined ideological conclusion and should be ignored. They aren't part of the public discussion because they are not discussing or thinking, they are emoting.
 
It's all part of the conservative victim complex. Help! We're being oppressed! (((Globalists))) are conspiring with the ChiComs to stamp out white social conservatives!
 
SJHovey said:
Isn't his beef this: Early in 2020 all these top scientists signed onto an article that basically said, with a high degree of confidence, that the virus likely originated in the natural world as opposed to a lab. Using that article, the media labeled all lab origination claims as conspiracies. Now, it's discovered that the scientists who signed onto the article were, at the time, themselves concerned about the possibility that it originated in a lab? Isn't that basically what he is complaining about?
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If it is he is a moron.

I wonder if Kepler is still gonna think hevis a genius...you know, despite literally all evidence to the contrary ;^)
 
Handyman said:
If it is he is a moron.

I wonder if Kepler is still gonna think hevis a genius...you know, despite literally all evidence to the contrary ;^)
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Which "he"?

Oh, Nate. Show me where I ever called him a "genius." The reason I like Nate is he is essentially me if I followed a different career path in the late 80s, one which would have been far more interesting than the one I settled for out of cowardice. He is top 1%, not top .1%. He's not a genius, he's just usually the most educated and circumspect person in the room.

Reading this over, I don't agree with his tone about "a certain cadre" but his overall opinion is correct: just because Nazis are citing something for their own purposes does not relieve scientists of the responsibility for testing a hypothesis. Obviously, the Right then attempts to use this to muddy the waters. They have endowed entire "think" (ahem) tanks to forge false results in order to feed their narratives and line their pockets, because they are a business operation. Nate should not exclude that from the calculation of how much time and energy real scientists should expend countering the frauds and criminals of the Right. But if Climate Change taught us something it's that just because a truth is inconvenient doesn't make it any less true.

I have no data. My intuition, which is worth nothing, is that COVID wasn't created in a lab any more than SARS or any other pandemic was. The media and politicians who repeat declarative statements about science they don't understand should be boiled in oil on the Nightly News. But we also have to insulate science from political pressure as much as we can, Fascist, Liberal, or even Left (although the last will never happen in America). Nate is saying "In science, you can't reject a hypothesis strictly because a Nazi is using it to foment hatred and disorder." There is nothing controversial about that statement.

We now return you to hysterical generalizations.
 
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SJHovey said:
I think this was the story that Nate has been relying upon in his criticism of the media and the anti-lab theory groups. I didn't have it at my fingertips when I originally posted.

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/nih-emails-origin-covid-lab-theory/
Click to expand...

So heavily edited, context free emails of people desperate for any information on this new virus that's about to steamroll humanity - including the performance of due diligence like "was this man made" - is evidence of ... what, exactly?
 
Swansong said:
So heavily edited, context free emails of people desperate for any information on this new virus that's about to steamroll humanity - including the performance of due diligence like "was this man made" - is evidence of ... what, exactly?
Click to expand...

Kepler correctly summarized the point Nate, and this Nation article, are trying to make. Just because you don't like or trust someone who is making an argument about a scientific point, that doesn't mean you should simply reject that argument or label it a conspiracy theory or something.

Personally, I really don't care about the source. I think it would be great if someone with the scientific expertise to do so would figure it out. I think that would be really useful.

If I were asked which way I'd prefer it come out, I guess personally I'd prefer to learn it was an intentional lead by some evil person somewhere. That outcome doesn't scare me at all. We can fix that problem.

If it turns out it was an accidental leak from a lab somewhere, that worries me a little more, but is not the worst case scenario. That just means it was human error, and we need to do better to prevent it from happening again.

The one that worries me is the "arising out of nature" result. That just tells me the planet is trying to kill me, and is getting much better at it. That I don't think we can necessarily fix. But it would be really useful, scientifically, if we knew that to be the case.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
It's all part of the conservative victim complex. Help! We're being oppressed! (((Globalists))) are conspiring with the ChiComs to stamp out white social conservatives!
Click to expand...

China unleashed the coronavirus on the US to kill Republican voters and help the Democrats win.
 
SJHovey said:
Kepler correctly summarized the point Nate, and this Nation article, are trying to make. Just because you don't like or trust someone who is making an argument about a scientific point, that doesn't mean you should simply reject that argument or label it a conspiracy theory or something.
Click to expand...
I'm not rejecting anything, and researchers aren't either. Saying there is no trace of active human intervention (or even passive human intervention) but that we're not confident about much else isn't "simply rejecting that argument".


SJHovey said:
Personally, I really don't care about the source. I think it would be great if someone with the scientific expertise to do so would figure it out. I think that would be really useful.

If I were asked which way I'd prefer it come out, I guess personally I'd prefer to learn it was an intentional lead by some evil person somewhere. That outcome doesn't scare me at all. We can fix that problem.

If it turns out it was an accidental leak from a lab somewhere, that worries me a little more, but is not the worst case scenario. That just means it was human error, and we need to do better to prevent it from happening again.
Click to expand...
Kinda seams like you do care about the origins. You're using a lot of words to tell us how little you care.



SJHovey said:
The one that worries me is the "arising out of nature" result. That just tells me the planet is trying to kill me, and is getting much better at it. That I don't think we can necessarily fix. But it would be really useful, scientifically, if we knew that to be the case.
Click to expand...
Well, my friend, get a helmet because the world is passively trying to kill you via fundamental acts of nature and sheer, brutal indifference.
 
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent to the concerns of such puny creatures as we are."

- Carl Sagan
 
Disease has been killing us for hundreds of thousands of years...that people pretend it still isn't is why our species is doomed.

And Nate Silver is a moronic egomaniac.
 
Kepler said:
Which "he"?

Oh, Nate. Show me where I ever called him a "genius." The reason I like Nate is he is essentially me if I followed a different career path in the late 80s, one which would have been far more interesting than the one I settled for out of cowardice. He is top 1%, not top .1%. He's not a genius, he's just usually the most educated and circumspect person in the room.

Reading this over, I don't agree with his tone about "a certain cadre" but his overall opinion is correct: just because Nazis are citing something for their own purposes does not relieve scientists of the responsibility for testing a hypothesis. Obviously, the Right then attempts to use this to muddy the waters. They have endowed entire "think" (ahem) tanks to forge false results in order to feed their narratives and line their pockets, because they are a business operation. Nate should not exclude that from the calculation of how much time and energy real scientists should expend countering the frauds and criminals of the Right. But if Climate Change taught us something it's that just because a truth is inconvenient doesn't make it any less true.

I have no data. My intuition, which is worth nothing, is that COVID wasn't created in a lab any more than SARS or any other pandemic was. The media and politicians who repeat declarative statements about science they don't understand should be boiled in oil on the Nightly News. But we also have to insulate science from political pressure as much as we can, Fascist, Liberal, or even Left (although the last will never happen in America). Nate is saying "In science, you can't reject a hypothesis strictly because a Nazi is using it to foment hatred and disorder." There is nothing controversial about that statement.

We now return you to hysterical generalizations.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced he's even 1%. He's me but with monetary backing. He knows his way around a spreadsheet and got it right a few times. Cool spreadsheet bro. That's not 1%.
 
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