Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

[Handyman]

I'm not convinced he's even 1%. He's me but with monetary backing. He knows his way around a spreadsheet and got it right a few times. Cool spreadsheet bro. That's not 1%.

This about sums it up.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

It’s not that he thinks it was a lab leak that’s the problem, it’s that Mr. 70% Does Not Equal 100% is now pushing a low confidence report as fact because he didn’t like how people were mean to him for telling him to leave public health to public health experts. There are more department reports that point away from a lab leak than point to it, unless you give bonus points to the moderate confidence to the FBI.

And as others have said, the main reason there was pushback against the lab leak theory was because the foundation of it was rooted in a right wing conspiracy that China was purposefully exposing the globe to COVID. There have been cases of lab workers getting exposed to rabies because of faulty equipment, so of course it was possible for a lab worker to accidentally contract COVID and bring it into the public, but that’s entirely different than the CCP directing them to unleash a virus that would kill their own population before it reached anywhere else.

 

[SJHovey]

It’s not that he thinks it was a lab leak that’s the problem, it’s that Mr. 70% Does Not Equal 100% is now pushing a low confidence report as fact because he didn’t like how people were mean to him for telling him to leave public health to public health experts. There are more department reports that point away from a lab leak than point to it, unless you give bonus points to the moderate confidence to the FBI.

And as others have said, the main reason there was pushback against the lab leak theory was because the foundation of it was rooted in a right wing conspiracy that China was purposefully exposing the globe to COVID. There have been cases of lab workers getting exposed to rabies because of faulty equipment, so of course it was possible for a lab worker to accidentally contract COVID and bring it into the public, but that’s entirely different than the CCP directing them to unleash a virus that would kill their own population before it reached anywhere else.

The "foundation" of the lab leak theory wasn't a right wing conspiracy. These talented scientists, including people like Fauci, were seeing things in the virus that caused them to question how it could possibly spring from nature.

At that point, when some of these scientists were questioning the "from nature" theory, or said that they might be leaning towards a leak from a lab (not even commenting on whether it was intentional or otherwise), the conspiracy theorists and China-haters took off with it and make it a big anti-China deal.

Then, at least partially to tamp down that anti-China propaganda and conspiracy theories, the scientists publicly stated that they had gained more confidence in the "sprung from nature" theory, without really identifying what it was that now made them so much more confident. That's what Nate and others are biatching about.

 

[Handyman]

After the revelations about the FBI and Trump the last few days I wouldnt trust them to be hall monitors.

 

[Handyman]

The "foundation" of the lab leak theory wasn't a right wing conspiracy. These talented scientists, including people like Fauci, were seeing things in the virus that caused them to question how it could possibly spring from nature.

At that point, when some of these scientists were questioning the "from nature" theory, or said that they might be leaning towards a leak from a lab (not even commenting on whether it was intentional or otherwise), the conspiracy theorists and China-haters took off with it and make it a big anti-China deal.

Then, at least partially to tamp down that anti-China propaganda and conspiracy theories, the scientists publicly stated that they had gained more confidence in the "sprung from nature" theory, without really identifying what it was that now made them so much more confident. That's what Nate and others are biatching about.

Nate is batching because he hurt his reputation with his takes and people have started to tune him out across the board. That is why he is latching on to a somewhat credible report to pretend to be vindicated. He is becoming Dr. Drew.. at this rate in a year he will be Joe Rogan.

And no offense but i think you are gaslighting yourself when it comes to the public discourse of the lab leak theory. This isn't about what scientists were saying it is about what the public and factions in the media were saying. Or do you think it is just a coincidence that violence against Asians skyrocketed after COVID hit the US?

It doesn't matter how it started it matters what it became. It's why Swatzikas are not seen as symbols of peace by most and the Confederate flag is seen as a symbol of outright racism. Nate is supposedly smart enough to see that so he is willfully ignoring it so he can pat himself on the back. Maybe he thinks being an even geekier version of Elon is a smart play but no one else does.

 

[SJHovey]

Nate is batching because he hurt his reputation with his takes and people have started to tune him out across the board. That is why he is latching on to a somewhat credible report to pretend to be vindicated. He is becoming Dr. Drew.. at this rate in a year he will be Joe Rogan.

And no offense but i think you are gaslighting yourself when it comes to the public discourse of the lab leak theory. This isn't about what scientists were saying it is about what the public and factions in the media were saying. Or do you think it is just a coincidence that violence against Asians skyrocketed after COVID hit the US?

It doesn't matter how it started it matters what it became. It's why Swatzikas are not seen as symbols of peace by most and the Confederate flag is seen as a symbol of outright racism. Nate is supposedly smart enough to see that so he is willfully ignoring it so he can pat himself on the back. Maybe he thinks being an even geekier version of Elon is a smart play but no one else does.

It is precisely about what the scientists were saying.

Again, there is no question that when the possibility that virus came from a lab was first discussed publicly, people who felt that there was a political or racial hatred agenda to be enhanced by trumpeting that came out of the woodwork. And that isn't right. They should have been shouted down or ignored or whatever.

But the correct response is not to respond by saying that you are confident it didn't come from a lab when they didn't know (and probably still don't know one way or the other), just to try to tamp down the extremism. Respond to the extremism in other ways.

 

[SJHovey]

People have no patience anymore. Everyone demands an answer, and they want it yesterday.

What the medical community should have said in February and March of 2020 is this. We don't know if it came from a lab. We have no current evidence it did. We also don't know if it sprung from nature because we don't have any evidence as to how that might have occurred.

Here is what we can tell you. We will figure it out. It's going to take a long time, but ultimately we think we'll figure it out. But to claim it was a lab leak or claim it sprung from a chicken market in Wuhan, right now, is wrong and uninformed.

Then, just keep repeating that until you figure it out.

 

[Kepler]

Handy's personalization of his opinions is always amusing. You can't be merely in disagreement with him, you have to be morally suspect. And, of course, he knows your motivations and he can see into your heart.

You missed your calling, man. You would have made a fine inquisitor.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

People have no patience anymore. Everyone demands an answer, and they want it yesterday.

What the medical community should have said in February and March of 2020 is this. We don't know if it came from a lab. We have no current evidence it did. We also don't know if it sprung from nature because we don't have any evidence as to how that might have occurred.

Here is what we can tell you. We will figure it out. It's going to take a long time, but ultimately we think we'll figure it out. But to claim it was a lab leak or claim it sprung from a chicken market in Wuhan, right now, is wrong and uninformed.

Then, just keep repeating that until you figure it out.

Isn't that basically what was said? I don't think anyone said anything definitively either way. Even the ones campaigning against calling it a China Lab Leak. Were they not effectively trying to counter the other group of people effectively calling it a China Lab Leak? Sometimes politics has to fight against politics.

But everyone with even a smidgen of brain power could figure out that no one really knew the answer to anything.

 

[French Rage]

You can't be merely in disagreement with him, you have to be morally suspect. And, of course, he knows your motivations and he can see into your heart.

And you're upset that he's stealing your bit?

 

[SJHovey]

Isn't that basically what was said? I don't think anyone said anything definitively either way. Even the ones campaigning against calling it a China Lab Leak. Were they not effectively trying to counter the other group of people effectively calling it a China Lab Leak? Sometimes politics has to fight against politics.

But everyone with even a smidgen of brain power could figure out that no one really knew the answer to anything.

My personal recollection is that the people in the know were saying that it appeared it had sprung from nature, but they hadn't yet figured out how, or "connected the dots." But my recollection may be wrong, too. What Nate and others have been talking about was the paper issued in March of 2020 (which I did not read or recall) in which they supposedly stated with a high degree of confidence that it wasn't a lab leak, but likely came from nature.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Isn't that basically what was said? I don't think anyone said anything definitively either way. Even the ones campaigning against calling it a China Lab Leak. Were they not effectively trying to counter the other group of people effectively calling it a China Lab Leak? Sometimes politics has to fight against politics.

But everyone with even a smidgen of brain power could figure out that no one really knew the answer to anything.

That’s what I recall. I believe fauci himself always said he was open to all the theories as it would take time to figure out- and that’s if china had any integrity to be honest. Several diseases have mutated in the wild. Also possible that it leaked from a lab that is known to study corona viruses.

Scientists didn’t like the “durrr it was leaked from wuhan lab” crowd because there was no proof

 

[SJHovey]

It is kind of funny, but there is still sort of this anti-lab theory reaction in parts of the public, even now three years later. We've seen it in this thread. When someone reported the recent Energy Department report suggesting it may have been a lab leak, even though they only had low confidence in their conclusions due to thin supporting data, there was an immediate backlash on this board that is still sort of percolating.

I would think at this point that we'd be open to any theories or papers on the subject.

 

[Swansong]

Why do you cling to the edited reporting that Fauci, et al, thought it was a human-direct (gain of function, if you prefer to use a different term) thing? They were doing due diligence. They were alarmed that something could blow up so quickly out of nature. And then the right wing jerkoff machine twisted that into "SEE?! EVEN FOWCHI SAID IT WAS HUMANS".

Hovey, unless you're simply incapable of understanding this, you're being ridiculously obtuse.

 

[Kepler]

And you're upset that he's stealing your bit?

It's like IP counts for nothing these days.

 

[Kepler]

That’s what I recall. I believe fauci himself always said he was open to all the theories as it would take time to figure out- and that’s if china had any integrity to be honest. Several diseases have mutated in the wild. Also possible that it leaked from a lab that is known to study corona viruses.

Scientists didn’t like the “durrr it was leaked from wuhan lab” crowd because there was no proof

This.

 

[rufus]

The "foundation" of the lab leak theory wasn't a right wing conspiracy. These talented scientists, including people like Fauci, were seeing things in the virus that caused them to question how it could possibly spring from nature.
.

Ummm, no.

I have not seen one thing where anyone has said there are any indications of genetic manipulation or man- made creation of any part of the coronavirus. Try again, Mr " I'm not a Trump supporter nor a conspiracy theorist"

 

[Swansong]

Ummm, no.

I have not seen one thing where anyone has said there are any indications of genetic manipulation or man- made creation of any part of the coronavirus. Try again, Mr " I'm not a Trump supporter nor a conspiracy theorist"

But you don't understand. Heavily edited emails presented without context kinda sorta maybe could be interpreted that way......

 

[rufus]

People have no patience anymore. Everyone demands an answer, and they want it yesterday.

What the medical community should have said in February and March of 2020 is this. We don't know if it came from a lab. We have no current evidence it did. We also don't know if it sprung from nature because we don't have any evidence as to how that might have occurred.

And that's exactly what they were saying. Along with the "most likely, it sprang from nature". You figure out what 'likely' means yet?

But then the usual suspects, and you know who they are, started clamoring about how no way this could have occurred naturally, and had to be released from a lab. And many of them pushing the released intentionally bit.

But you just keep on gaslighting, like you do.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

It is kind of funny, but there is still sort of this anti-lab theory reaction in parts of the public, even now three years later. We've seen it in this thread. When someone reported the recent Energy Department report suggesting it may have been a lab leak, even though they only had low confidence in their conclusions due to thin supporting data, there was an immediate backlash on this board that is still sort of percolating.

I would think at this point that we'd be open to any theories or papers on the subject.

For me, my issue was with drew saying that Jake Sullivan neither confirming or denying dept of energy report as conclusive. Sullivan was admitting it’s possible but the report itself said it had a low level of confidence.

some people reacted that the dept of energy wouldn’t know- well actually they would, as these top security labs are in their purview