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Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

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Herman Cain's Twitter account posting that COVID isn't as deadly as the MSM said is maybe the peak of modern conservative thought.
 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-claims-by-trump-pence/ar-BB18yl1B?li=BBnb7Kz

As the White House repeatedly downplayed the state of the pandemic throughout the summer, its own coronavirus task force was quietly sending reports to states that directly contradicted the public remarks offered by President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, showed documents that were unveiled Monday by a congressional panel.
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Further, the Democratic-led committee concluded, "many states are still failing to comply with key Task Force recommendations, including some recommendations first made nearly two months ago."

The panel specifically references four states—Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and Oklahoma—that it said "acknowledged" receiving the private reports and recommendations, yet largely ignored them by not "implementing additional public health measures recommended by the Task Force to stop the spread of the virus."
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In related news, get ready for 'herd immunity' and 1.5-2 million dead, as Trump's new favorite doctor, straight from Fox news, is said to be heavily influencing the course forward, despite the objections of Birx and Fauci.
 
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rufus said:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/secret-white-house-coronavirus-task-force-reports-contradict-public-claims-by-trump-pence/ar-BB18yl1B?li=BBnb7Kz



In related news, get ready for 'herd immunity' and 1.5-2 million dead, as Trump's new favorite doctor, straight from Fox news, is said to be heavily influencing the course forward, despite the objections of Birx and Fauci.
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A top advisor to trump is already pushing herd immunity hard now.
aftwr you’ve let 200k people die, that’s about all you have left
 
The idea that we need to steam towards herd immunity is regurgitated by many of the uninformed (many of them who also erroneously claim that they don't like vaccines because they prefer to build immunity "naturally"). This is about 6 weeks old, but it's every bit as true now as it was then:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/polit...ity/index.html

1) "Let's talk about herd immunity. I've listened to some people argue that the rapid spread of cases is a good thing, and we need to reach herd immunity in Mississippi and elsewhere to survive. I'm not a health care expert by any means, but I am a math guy. And I have thoughts:"
2) "The experts say we need 70-80% of the population to get COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity. Let's assume they're wrong (it's certainly possible, they have been before.) Let's assume they're being way overly cautious and we actually only need 40% infection for herd immunity."
3) "In Mississippi, our population is 3 million. We've had 36,680 cases so far. We'd need 1.2 MILLION infections to achieve that hypothetical 40% threshold. (Remember, experts say it's double that.)"
4) "Over the last two weeks, our hospital system has started to become stressed to the point of pain. We are seeing the early signs and effects of it becoming overwhelmed. We had to suspend elective surgeries again."
5) "On our worst day of new cases, we had just over 1,000. It has typically been between 700-900 during this most aggressive time. To get to 40% infections, we'd need 3,187 new cases every day for a full year from today. We would need to TRIPLE our worst day -- every day -- for a year."
6) "I'm not one of these guys that immediately dismisses any idea that challenges the expert status quo talking points. I'm pretty skeptical by nature. That's healthy. But herd immunity is not anything like a realistic solution in the short or mid-term. I wish it was."
7) "Unless you're willing to go without hospitals after a car wreck or heart attack, we need a different approach. Right now, despite mixed messages at the beginning, it seems like masks are the best bet. They're a hell of a lot better than widespread shut downs. Please wear one!"
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We have about 330 million people in the US. Assuming the low end of the herd immunity threshold of 70%, that's 231,000,000 infections. Even assuming the 1% fatality rate, that is 2.3 million people dead. Want to get silly and halve the fatality rate? Fine. 1.15 million dead.

And frankly, if you have 231 million people getting infected all within a short time and still think that hospitals would be able to limit the fatality rate to 1% then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Since ObviousTroll2020 and the once-good poster Chuck Murray don't like to read anything that causes them thinky pain, here's the TL;DR version:

Herd Immunity happens with a vaccine or with millions dead. There are no other options.
 
Also, to add to the "6% conspiracy" discussion, the idea that all of those patients with COVID and something else would have died this year anyway is utterly preposterous. People live for years with COPD, CHF, lung cancer or all manner of ailments. But they do not with that and COVID. What makes this virus so nasty is that it brutalizes people with co-morbitities. Like all of you, I have many friends and acquaintances and coworkers with health conditions putting that at significant risk of COVID. I guess they should never be able to work, or go out to the store, or see family or anyone again?


Influenza can be similarly nasty - in fact the CDC doesn't track the exact number of flu deaths because the direct cause of death is almost always a secondary infection or the worsening (caused by influenza) of an existing health issue. That's just how we track diseases.

My response to "only 6% of COVID-related deaths are solely due to COVID" is "it's that high?"
 
Restaurants here were deserted in March before they were closed - it's ludicrous to think that it would be business as usual everywhere if we'd just open back up. People with brains aren't traveling or going out. Add to that the impact of every hospital in the country being overwhelmed and you have an even deeper negative impact on the economy.

Kick and scream and lie and obfuscate all you want, COVID does not care.
 
WisconsinWildcard said:
For those who have intact cognitive function and reasoning skills, here is a good debunking of the 6% nonsense. Good outline for those who have never filled one out explaining how death certificates work and how those who forward the 6% meme, really do not have any idea what they are talking about.

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2020...isinformation/
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That's pretty good!

One thing we forget is that "Cause of death" is often extremely subjective. My mother's official cause of death was CHF, but what killed her was something far more complicated and not fit for a death certificate.
 
Swansong said:
Restaurants here were deserted in March before they were closed - it's ludicrous to think that it would be business as usual everywhere if we'd just open back up. People with brains aren't traveling or going out. Add to that the impact of every hospital in the country being overwhelmed and you have an even deeper negative impact on the economy.

Kick and scream and lie and obfuscate all you want, COVID does not care.
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Not for nothing.....

but mookie got tested on aug 11 to be able to travel out of the middle east

mookie has been on 12 different flight segments through 9 cities

in 4 of those Mookie was out, shopping and in restaurants and golf clubs and even got a massage :) here in Florida.

mookie ALWAYS had a mask on outside of the house and social distanced (well except...).

mookie got a test this morning so he could re-enter his home in the ME and he passed.

so it seems, masks and social distancing work. Cause mookie is certainly not blessed :eek:

ergo....WEAR A DAM MASK!!!
 
WisconsinWildcard said:
For those who have intact cognitive function and reasoning skills, here is a good debunking of the 6% nonsense. Good outline for those who have never filled one out explaining how death certificates work and how those who forward the 6% meme, really do not have any idea what they are talking about.

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2020...isinformation/
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Interesting link, WW. So what I got out of this was a few things, one of which was that while the 6% figure was not a fair or accurate analysis, it IS fair to say that 6% of the medical professionals who filled out the death certificates were/are not smart enough to fill them out correctly. That's not terribly reassuring. And further to the Dr. Birx quote on the "liberal counting" ... the cited item concedes that no more than 92.3% of the reported COVID-19 patients who died, passed away as a result of it.

With the other subjective elements involved, the only thing we can probably agree upon with certainty is the true number of COVID-19 deaths is somewhere in between 6% and 92.3%. And even if it's closer to 92.3%, does that mean it's 80%? 70%? 60%?? In any instance, it's a significant number AND also debunks the whole "undercounting" scenario that some on here still try to put forward with a straight face.

And keep in mind, a large segment of the data is coming from persons of older age, with many of them who (on top of that) have already been consigned to assisted living facilities. That does not make them meaningless; it does make them more susceptible, and (for what it's worth) the average life expectancy in assisted living facilities (admission to death) is roughly two years, give or take. The only point here is, these comorbidities aren't minor conditions - they're usually what got the patient there into assisted living in the first place.

Of course, there are many who had not gotten to assisted living yet, and their additional comorbidities may likely have been on average well below the 2.6 per patient average, whilst those in assisted living were likely well above the 2.6 average.

You didn't raise this - someone else did - but with all due respect, AIDS is an at-best-incomplete comparison to COVID-19. The age of those affected by AIDS was/is on average much lower than that of those who died with COVID-19. Comorbidities prior to infection were/are a much smaller factor with AIDS. I'm only guessing that deaths from AIDS for those already in assisted living scenarios was/is microscopic.

All in all, there's a lot more nuance into the overall analysis than most are willing to admit. Yet the media and the Dems (but I repeat myself) only go to the highest number possible.

To paraphrase Jeb2020 ... the effect is to try to make something kind of scary into something that's really scary. And if we're all being honest here ... that's the whole ballgame, isn't it?
 
https://twitter.com/OBusybody/status...43601969078274

It's been 2 months since Dr. Fauci warned of 100k new cases/day. Since then:

Most states continued to open up
Daily testing doubled
False positives were very common.

Even with all of that, we still never went above 75k/day and haven't been above 50k/day in 2 weeks.

And the tests are absolutely junk.

Man this dude is wrong about just about everything.


EgtkOXQWkAEj00_
 
Chuck Murray said:
Interesting link, WW. So what I got out of this was a few things, one of which was that while the 6% figure was not a fair or accurate analysis, it IS fair to say that 6% of the medical professionals who filled out the death certificates were/are not smart enough to fill them out correctly. That's not terribly reassuring.
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Thank you for actually reading it (sincerely). I am a bit short on time so I will be be brief. The 6%...is what it is. There are physicians that are subpar. There are also honest mistakes in the endless stream of paperwork.

Chuck Murray said:
With the other subjective elements involved, the only thing we can probably agree upon with certainty is the true number of COVID-19 deaths is somewhere in between 6% and 92.3%. And even if it's closer to 92.3%, does that mean it's 80%? 70%? 60%?? In any instance, it's a significant number AND also debunks the whole "undercounting" scenario that some on here still try to put forward with a straight face.
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I, and nearly every physician I know on the front lines, still believe we under counted especially early when the feds were sitting on their hands, not rolling out tests. I know of several deaths and even more patients that I saw with mild symptoms that were in hindsight, likely Covid. Death rates were up (these numbers are complicated, I agree, but there are clear spikes in the data in Spring).

Chuck Murray said:
The only point here is, these comorbidities aren't minor conditions - they're usually what got the patient there into assisted living in the first place.
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If you read the CDC report and Dr. Gorski's article, you see that the vast majority co-morbidities are acquired from Covid. When you die, you go into septic shock, get a PE, cardiac arrest, heart failure etc. What is causing this is Covid. If your brain herniates from a hemispheric stroke, you typically die of cardiac arrest. How do you propose that be listed? I will write both but it is considered a stroke mortality. AIDS is a serviceable comparison as it illustrates the point but like all comparisons, it is not perfect.

Chuck Murray said:
the effect is to try to make something kind of scary into something that's really scary. And if we're all being honest here ... that's the whole ballgame, isn't it?
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We are nearing 200K deaths. I have lost friends and colleagues to this disease. I have worked in a Covid ward (thankfully not primarily). It is pretty ****ing scary. Get with the program, stop spreading misinformation because you find it politically advantageous and do your ****ing part to save some of your fellow Americans lives.
 
WisconsinWildcard said:
1. I, and nearly every physician I know on the front lines, still believe we under counted especially early when the feds were sitting on their hands, not rolling out tests. I know of several deaths and even more patients that I saw with mild symptoms that were in hindsight, likely Covid. Death rates were up (these numbers are complicated, I agree, but there are clear spikes in the data in Spring).

2. If you read the CDC report and Dr. Gorski's article, you see that the vast majority co-morbidities are acquired from Covid. When you die, you go into septic shock, get a PE, cardiac arrest, heart failure etc. What is causing this is Covid. If your brain herniates from a hemispheric stroke, you typically die of cardiac arrest. How do you propose that be listed? I will write both but it is considered a stroke mortality. AIDS is a serviceable comparison as it illustrates the point but like all comparisons, it is not perfect.
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1. The tests are absolute junk. This was identified right out of the gates.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/h...s-testing.html

On top of that we don't even have a Gold Standard which to confirm positive cases.


2. The vast majority of Co-morbities are acquired from Covid? You are joking right?


The pandemic is long gone. All that is left is a Casedemic, horrific data and fraudulent media information.
 
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