Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Most states (maybe all states?) go a long way to prevent employees being able to sue an employer for any kind of a workplace injury. Exceptions are pretty narrow and usually require either a willful or intentional act by the employer or gross negligence. Simple negligence usually means workers compensation is all you are entitled to. Some states allow people to waive in their entirety their rights to have injuries treated under workers compensation insurance in exchange for the right to bring a lawsuit against the company.

Yet another horrible thing states do is they race to the bottom to see who can have the least generous system so insurance rates and payroll taxes for the employer can be nice and low. States that advertises as a great place to "do business" usually have awful unemployment and workers compensation laws/rules. Which is stupid, because the states that do a better job (MN is a decent example) still have plenty of profitable businesses and manage to have plenty of fortune 500 type businesses working there.

Yeah South Dakota is pushing hard for businesses to move there.

it’s cute

 

[SJHovey]

Uh... did you read what he posted?

I did.

I posted what friends, who are parents, stated to me. I offered no opinion on their statements. Kepler responded by saying, and I quote,

Enjoy your freedom and I hope you and the people you care for don't get sick, because a metric sh-t ton of people who think the way you do have and will and, much more unfairly, they've also infected a whole bunch of people who knew better and whose only crime was to be in the wrong place when you did your reckless equivalent of epidemiological drunken driving and plowed into them.

 

[Jeb2020]

It's always projection from the right wingers

You might want to check some of those who have benefited handsomely from this and then check who they and their companies lend financial support to.

I can’t imagine what a day in the life of Dufus is like?

 

[SJHovey]

Worker's compensation laws vary greatly from state to state, but even the most generous states are not looking to find employers liable for injury or illness an employee claims is related to or caused by work. The problem with finding an employer responsible is even with precise contract tracing and testing there really might not be any way to know where a person comes into contact with a virus. Most people do catch their colds or flu from home, work or school simply because that is where people spend almost 100% of their time. Well for the kids it USED to be school.

I doubt you will see a lot of people who suffer great expense and long term effects from covid-19 being able to successfully claim it under workers compensation insurance.

I know that it's the wet dream of people to see employers sued out of existence by employees who come back to work and later contract Covid, but at least here in Minnesota I don't see that happening.

First, there is the very reason that you addressed which is the proof problem of connecting the Covid to the work or place of employment.

But even beyond that, here in Minnesota it is almost impossible to sue your employer. It's the Korey Stringer case.

For those that don't recall, Stringer was the large, offensive lineman that the Vikings made run around in excessive heat until he died of heat stroke. Stringer's widow sued the Vikings, and it was dismissed because of workers compensation. Work comp is the exclusive remedy here in Minnesota for employees. Stringer's widow ended up suing the league, Stringer's doctors and a variety of other people, but the employer walked.

That's why, in Minnesota, the legislature passed a law very early in the pandemic to essentially presume (for work comp purposes) that a health care worker or first responder who develops Covid, got it at work. So, basically, if you're a cop, fireman, ambulance worker or health care worker and you get Covid, you'll get work comp benefits. Meatpackers in the state tried to get that extended to them, but with no luck.

 

[Swansong]

So I work at a hospital (Fortunately, I've been full-time remote since March except for a couple of things related to a really nasty cyber attack last month). One of our desktop support techs caught COVID back in April. He was super careful - didn't go out, groceries delivered, gloves at work and masks any time he was outside. Same for his wife, who was able to work remotely. So obviously he caught it from work (his job is to be all over the hospital and all 70 outpatient offices), but the hospital insisted there was no way to properly know for sure.

If that doesn't move the needle, truly nothing will.

 

[rufus]

I did.

I posted what friends, who are parents, stated to me. I offered no opinion on their statements. Kepler responded by saying, and I quote,

Enjoy your freedom and I hope you and the people you care for don't get sick, because a metric sh-t ton of people who think the way you do have and will and, much more unfairly, they've also infected a whole bunch of people who knew better and whose only crime was to be in the wrong place when you did your reckless equivalent of epidemiological drunken driving and plowed into them.

Touch a nerve, snowflake?

 

[dxmnkd316]

That's why, in Minnesota, the legislature passed a law very early in the pandemic to essentially presume (for work comp purposes) that a health care worker or first responder who develops Covid, got it at work. So, basically, if you're a cop, fireman, ambulance worker or health care worker and you get Covid, you'll get work comp benefits. Meatpackers in the state tried to get that extended to them, but with no luck.

And that's fucked and should be fixed. Anyone who is forced to work should have it extended. We *sniff* love our red-blooded, patriotic first responders but anyone who is working right now in-person should have it extended to them. It's so disappointing that even a progressive state has a bunch of dirtbag corporate-ball-sucking republicans in the state senate. Once we fix that in November we can move on to fixing the inequities in our system. God forbid a company having to take responsibility for killing or injuring someone.

 

[SJHovey]

And that's ****ed and should be fixed. Anyone who is forced to work should have it extended. We *sniff* love our red-blooded, patriotic first responders but anyone who is working right now in-person should have it extended to them. It's so disappointing that even a progressive state has a bunch of dirtbag corporate-ball-sucking republicans in the state senate. Once we fix that in November we can move on to fixing the inequities in our system. God forbid a company having to take responsibility for killing or injuring someone.

5.7 million people in the country have had the disease. How many got it at work?

Yeah, it's fun to just blame other people, especially if it's your employer, and make them pay for everything. But it's not a workable solution. You can blame the Minnesota Senate, but it was Walz who decided not to push for an extension beyond the first responders.

 

[Handyman]

I go back and forth on WC when it comes to COVID. More than First Responders should get it but you cant make it so everyone can get it. If it is in any way connectable then WC should be in play but if you just allow everyone who might have gotten COVID at work (without any real evidence of connection) to get WC that is going to cause massive problems.

In theory it makes sense, but in practice it is going to throw a monkey wrench into things and will probably cause more problems than it solves. The Law of Unintended Consequences and all that.

(this is why going back to work should have been discouraged and UBI should have been in play from Day 1. Oh and PPP should have been structured better to protect small business so they could afford to close)

 

[Kepler]

I did.

I posted what friends, who are parents, stated to me. I offered no opinion on their statements. Kepler responded by saying, and I quote,

Enjoy your freedom and I hope you and the people you care for don't get sick, because a metric sh-t ton of people who think the way you do have and will and, much more unfairly, they've also infected a whole bunch of people who knew better and whose only crime was to be in the wrong place when you did your reckless equivalent of epidemiological drunken driving and plowed into them.

Yes. You have underlined the f-ck scenes.

The people who are treating this lightly, like you and the people you quote, have a lot of blood on their hands. Assuming our body count with a competent public policy would have been about 50k your ideas have killed 125k as of this morning. You built that. You aren't neutral. You may not be opining but I am -- you are responsible for the policies you advocate and the politicians you vote for, and those policies and politicians are murderous.

The ones who are stupid are partially absolved, but you are not stupid. You're blinded by rancid ideas that gnawed into your head and now impede your humanity and common sense.

 

[dxmnkd316]

5.7 million people in the country have had the disease. How many got it at work?

Yeah, it's fun to just blame other people, especially if it's your employer, and make them pay for everything. But it's not a workable solution. You can blame the Minnesota Senate, but it was Walz who decided not to push for an extension beyond the first responders.

Perhaps Walz decided that during a 100-year pandemic, trying to play politics with a death cult was ill-advised and decided to try to get something, anything through the Senate.

Your canard about how many got it from work is a particularly useless since it ignores the fact that this is a communicable virus. Which is bizarre considering we're talking about a communicable virus. There's a great graphic put out by one of the major journals recently that tracked one case to 91 subsequent cases, just among those they could trace. Not counting the future secondary, tertiary, quaternary*, etc. cases that come from this.

Imagine an arsonist is running wild through a massive forest. That arsonist sets fire to maybe what? One millionth of a percent of the total trees burned? You're arguing we shouldn't try to stop the arsonist because he's only responsible for a fraction of the total damage.


*I love using this word

 

[rufus]

And that's ****ed and should be fixed. Anyone who is forced to work should have it extended. We *sniff* love our red-blooded, patriotic first responders but anyone who is working right now in-person should have it extended to them. It's so disappointing that even a progressive state has a bunch of dirtbag corporate-ball-sucking republicans in the state senate. Once we fix that in November we can move on to fixing the inequities in our system. God forbid a company having to take responsibility for killing or injuring someone.

How long did the dying police and firefighters have to fight to get their government to pay up after 9/11?

No one in power gives a shit about our first responders other than how they score political points using them.

 

[rufus]

And that's ****ed and should be fixed. Anyone who is forced to work should have it extended. We *sniff* love our red-blooded, patriotic first responders but anyone who is working right now in-person should have it extended to them. It's so disappointing that even a progressive state has a bunch of dirtbag corporate-ball-sucking republicans in the state senate. Once we fix that in November we can move on to fixing the inequities in our system. God forbid a company having to take responsibility for killing or injuring someone.

How long did the dying police and firefighters have to fight to get their government to pay up after 9/11?

No one in power gives a shit about our first responders other than how they can score political points using them.

 

[rufus]

Yes. You have underlined the f-ck scenes.

The people who are treating this lightly, like you and the people you quote, have a lot of blood on their hands. Assuming our body count with a competent public policy would have been about 50k your ideas have killed 125k as of this morning. You built that. You aren't neutral. You may not be opining but I am -- you are responsible for the policies you advocate and the politicians you vote for, and those policies and politicians are murderous.

The ones who are stupid are partially absolved, but you are not stupid. You're blinded by rancid ideas that gnawed into your head and now impede your humanity and common sense.

Or, he's just a fucking sociopath.

As to Covid and workmens comp, you can be damm sure that in the future, insurance companies are gonna treat having had it as a pre-existing condition to deny all sorts of future treatment options, if the Repubs ever end Obama care. Lung problems, heart problems, stroke, anything they can get away with.

 

[Kepler]

Or, he's just a ****ing sociopath.

I'm not giving up on Hovey. There's nothing in his posts that suggests to me he is willfully amoral or mentally deficient. And when it comes to being belligerent I am way, way worse than he is. If tone were all that mattered I'd be one of the worst people on the board. (Hmm....)

He's a smart, sensible guy who is just plain wrong. It happens. Maybe he's also a little vain and doesn't want to examine his axioms, but we all like the smell of our own, or at least think they're "neutral."

I like Hovey. The guys who come here and say dumb stuff because they are too weak to break their programming, or because they're just being vile trolls, I Ignore. The guys who are sincere but just have bad premises, or who had bad teachers, or are caught up in the disgusting ball of conservative twine that masquerades as "thinking," are worth trying to reach.

Beats workin'.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Or, he's just a ****ing sociopath.

As to Covid and workmens comp, you can be damm sure that in the future, insurance companies are gonna treat having had it as a pre-existing condition to deny all sorts of future treatment options, if the Repubs ever end Obama care. Lung problems, heart problems, stroke, anything they can get away with.

Yeah that part terrifies me. I’m sure insurance will screw over a lot of people on these lasting effects

 

[burd]

I'm not giving up on Hovey. There's nothing in his posts that suggests to me he is willfully amoral or mentally deficient. And when it comes to being belligerent I am way, way worse than he is. If tone were all that mattered I'd be one of the worst people on the board. (Hmm....)

He's a smart, sensible guy who is just plain wrong. It happens. Maybe he's also a little vain and doesn't want to examine his axioms, but we all like the smell of our own, or at least think they're "neutral."

I like Hovey. The guys who come here and say dumb stuff because they are too weak to break their programming, or because they're just being vile trolls, I Ignore. The guys who are sincere but just have bad premises, or who had bad teachers, or are caught up in the disgusting ball of conservative twine that masquerades as "thinking," are worth trying to reach.

Beats workin'.

I'm glad Hovey is here. It can't be easy being a conservative on these threads. We who are varying degrees of liberal need some push back from a conservative with a sizeable fund of knowledge and some brains.

 

[leswp1]

Or, he's just a ****ing sociopath.

As to Covid and workmens comp, you can be damm sure that in the future, insurance companies are gonna treat having had it as a pre-existing condition to deny all sorts of future treatment options, if the Repubs ever end Obama care. Lung problems, heart problems, stroke, anything they can get away with.

Add thyroid problems- the newest thing that is coming out.

The Univ refuses to put anything in writing or have a policy about covering C-19. But is quite willing to put someone at risk without supplying the proper PPE. And more stuff that I can't post but makes me want to puke at the hypocrisy.

 

[Slap Shot]

I'm glad Hovey is here. It can't be easy being a conservative on these threads. We who are varying degrees of liberal need some push back from a conservative with a sizeable fund of knowledge and some brains.

I don't think there is anything conservative about it. My parents are quite conservative but they've shown (even at the age of 82) they're more than capable of looking past their own immediate needs and seeing a much bigger picture. I welcome legit conservative debate but Hovey is offering nothing of the sort. It's borderline "Fifth Avenue Posse" thinking and extremely dangerous.

 

[SJHovey]

I don't think there is anything conservative about it. My parents are quite conservative but they've shown (even at the age of 82) they're more than capable of looking past their own immediate needs and seeing a much bigger picture. I welcome legit conservative debate but Hovey is offering nothing of the sort. It's borderline "Fifth Avenue Posse" thinking and extremely dangerous.

I'm going to be completely candid. I have literally no idea what this means. I even googled it and I still have no idea what it means.

I mean, I kind of like it and I'm not opposed to adopting it as my credo. Rufus' description, ******* sociopath, while accurate, is too common.

But if I'm going to adopt Fifth Avenue Posse thinking as my worldview, if anyone out there can help me out with a definition, I'd be forever indebted.