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Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

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Society has always had neurotics and hypochondriacs. Usually you left them alone or rolled your eyes at them. Covid empowered the whack jobs.
 
WisconsinWildcard said:
This is false. I have been in multiple hospital systems that are overwhelmed during bad influenza seasons. In medical school, we lost our team room during one season as it was converted to a patient room to help with the overflow.
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I should have said "all" instead of "any." Has there been multiple across the country at the same time like there is now?
 
MichVandal said:
I should have said "all" instead of "any." Has there been multiple across the country at the same time like there is now?
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There certainly are frequent events that overwhelm a region, even in mild or moderate influenza seasons. It was a long time ago, but I had a prolonged argument with Bob Gray on this subject as I generally support stringent influenza vaccination requirements for healthcare providers as the systems that have a strong requirements have lower morbidity from hospital acquired influenza. I look it as a similar issue of having a personal choice to not wash my hands (I do not have that choice).

There are a lot of misconceptions out there about how the hospital system works in the US. Most hospitals are at or near capacity at all times. Empty beds=losing money. Idle staff=losing money. There is no built in flex to our systems. Certainly, the current pandemic is unprecedented but similar issues happen routinely in a hospital system. I worked at a 1000+ bed hospital, blocks away from another 1000+ bed hospital for 5 years in training. Both were >95% capacity at nearly all times of my training. Patients would be accepted for transfer and could take days to weeks for a bed to open up. Our hospital had 100+ ICU beds, and there are several times I was forced to provide ICU level care in a hallway as there were no ICU beds (or crash beds) available. I have provided 48 hours of care for an acute stroke in the emergency room, discharged the patient to rehab all before a bed opens up in the hospital. This most often happened during flu season but it can happen at other times.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
I am feeling really dumb, because I can't seem to square what the argument is even being made here. That people who think we should have covid mandates don't get the flu vaccine? Like, ok, sure.

One is a weapon of mass destruction and the other is an ak-47. Rarely can you apply similar lines of thinking to any two things that differ by orders of magnitude.

You can't just handwave the fact that these are two extraordinarily different things.
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I've read multiple posts on this board that assault rifles (such as an AK-47) should be banned because they are built for only one purpose: killing people. WMDs have the same purpose but they are much more efficient. WMDs kill many but are infrequently utilized. AK-47s kill fewer but are used far more frequently. The ONLY equivalence between the two is that they both kill and maim people. Unfortunately, we don't have a easy method to get rid of either of these. But let's say some brilliant person comes up with two fantastic ideas. One will decrease the possibility that WMDs will be used and would limit the number of deaths from them. The other idea will limit the use of AK-47s and thereby decreasing the number of deaths from them. Let's say that both ideas are an extremely low risk proposition and are easily obtainable. The WMD idea seems to be somewhat more efficient than the AK-47 one but both still decrease the number of deaths. Should we not utilize the AK-47 idea simply because it's a less efficient killer and the idea to decrease the deaths caused by AK-47s doesn't work as well? No. We would want to implement both ideas because even though AK-47s don't kill as many people and the problem fix isn't as good, we still saving many lives with little effort. Now replace WMDs with COVID and AK-47s with Influenza. They're not equivalent but they both kill people and we actually do have a fantastic idea to limit both of them. It's called a vaccine. Should we not use a flu vaccine simply because COVID kills more people?

The points I am trying to make are as follows:
1. COVID-19 virus and Influenza viruses both cause significant mortality and morbidity. Not to the same extent but both kill people.
2. Different portions of the population have different levels of risk from the diseases caused from each virus and a certain portion of the population have an extremely low risk to the point that contracting the illness will pose no hardship to them.
3. Vaccination against each virus can decrease the mortality and morbidity for both the person and for the population as a whole (again at varying efficacy)
4. If you are one of the lucky ones who are at very low risk from the Dz, the only reason to get vaccinated is to help out those who are at risk
5. Telling a low risk person to get a COVID vaccine in order to help the population but not getting a flu vaccine because you are low risk (and therefore the only reason to get one is to help the population) is hypocrisy
 
Jesus. I knew you'd miss the point. Reminder to myself, never use a gun analogy with a Republican. They won't get it.

The point is, get rid of both. Get the vaccines and stop being an asshole. iF you don't and don't have an exceptionally good reason, you're an asshole. Regardless of whether that person pushes people to get the covid vaccine and not the flu. In the latter case, they're both an asshole and a hypocrite.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Jesus. I knew you'd miss the point. Reminder to myself, never use a gun analogy with a Republican. They won't get it.

The point is, get rid of both. Get the vaccines and stop being an *******. iF you don't and don't have an exceptionally good reason, you're an *******. Regardless of whether that person pushes people to get the covid vaccine and not the flu. In the latter case, they're both an ******* and a hypocrite.
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dxmnkd316 said:
Jesus. I knew you'd miss the point. Reminder to myself, never use a gun analogy with a Republican. They won't get it.

The point is, get rid of both. Get the vaccines and stop being an *******. iF you don't and don't have an exceptionally good reason, you're an *******. Regardless of whether that person pushes people to get the covid vaccine and not the flu. In the latter case, they're both an ******* and a hypocrite.
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Try reading my post. If you read what I actually said and not what your preconceived viewpoint wants me to have said, you might find that I'm in agreement with your statement.
 
busterman62 said:
Try reading my post. If you read what I actually said and not what your preconceived viewpoint wants me to have said, you might find that I'm in agreement with your statement.
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What I read in your post is that if you change your mind, you are a hypocrite.

Is it really that bad to see the data differently and change your position?

So a little searching has 170-190M people annually get the influenza vaccine, whereas right now there are about 210M people that have both doses of the COVID vaccine. 20-40M people have seen the point and have changed their minds. How is that being a hypocrite?

BTW, one thing that I openly wonder- how many of those 170-190M people have not gotten the COVID vaccine- since this one is political as opposed to influenza.
 
Here's a graph for Jebbie, and Drew and his "1/3 hospitalized are vaccinated" shtick. It's for NYC, but I'm sure it applies fairly closely everywhere else.

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