Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

I won't say excessive force or not. I'm guessing more details will come out. On the surface, it seems excessive is in play.

Now, he led police on a chase, and also live-streamed (against the hands-free law), and we don't know his criminal background, if any is applicable. He ignored warnings to drop the knife (that was not smart of him), and now he's dead.

I repeat, on the surface? Cops over-reacted hard-core, BUT, will reserve overall judgement until more details emerge.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I have told this story multiple times so I apologize if you heard it before:

Years ago my dad ran a small business. The numbers never seemed right and since I was technically part of the business I looked at the books. Small checks were being written and cashed with forged signatures. I think we found like 8-10k total over the course of a year. We knew who did it, where they were and had copies of the forged checks. The bank was going to refund the money but first they wanted us to talk to the local cops and get them to sign off on something. (honestly cant remember what)

My dad and I walk in to the PD and talk to a couple of detectives. We hand them all the evidence they need. (my father at one time was an attorney so he knew how to play it) They sat there with blank looks on their faces nodding every so often but obviously not caring. When we were done they basically told us they dont have the time or resources to deal with this and we should just do what we need to do with the bank and be done with it. Now mind you, this was not some small town PD or something, this was a pretty well off suburb where our property taxes werent exactly low. Hell the person (who had previous crimes on their record for similar crimes) was not 1 mile away and wasnt even denying they did it! Nope. They pushed us on our way with whatever we needed from the bank and that was it.

Typical. Sounds like when my parents were robbed when I was a kid. They did nothing.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Typical. Sounds like when my parents were robbed when I was a kid. They did nothing.

Robberies, break-ins (house or car) are pretty low priority.

 

[joecct]

I won't say excessive force or not. I'm guessing more details will come out. On the surface, it seems excessive is in play.

Now, he led police on a chase, and also live-streamed (against the hands-free law), and we don't know his criminal background, if any is applicable. He ignored warnings to drop the knife (that was not smart of him), and now he's dead.

I repeat, on the surface? Cops over-reacted hard-core, BUT, will reserve overall judgement until more details emerge.

On the surface this looks like suicide by cop.

On a different note, the Sunday Boston Globe ran a story about the 1919 Boston Police strike. Very very good read.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...lice-strike/0YgNYLshnyfcxYkQnGKhvM/story.html

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

I won't say excessive force or not. I'm guessing more details will come out. On the surface, it seems excessive is in play.

Now, he led police on a chase, and also live-streamed (against the hands-free law), and we don't know his criminal background, if any is applicable. He ignored warnings to drop the knife (that was not smart of him), and now he's dead.

I repeat, on the surface? Cops over-reacted hard-core, BUT, will reserve overall judgement until more details emerge.

You're doing it again, Rube. Your first paragraph seems a fair, measured response, but by the second you qualify another tragic incident of cops killing someone by noting he was breaking the hands-free driving laws and we don't know his criminal background. Who cares about these things? You don't deserve summary execution because you committed a traffic offense, and if we don't know about the guy's criminal background, neither do the cops. The assumption should not be they needed to be so scared for their lives that using lethal force was pulled out of their bag of tricks the first chance they got.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

On the surface this looks like suicide by cop.

"Suicide by cop" has been a thing long enough now that it is a shame that we have not yet demanded of our law enforcers a more effective way of dealing with suicidal people. Too bad we hire so many cops who only seem too eager to help facilitate a suicidal individual in his or her desire to complete suicide, instead of hiring people who think their real job should be finding a way to help the suicidal person realize that suicide doesn't end the pain, it only transfers it to their family and friends.

If the person is brandishing a firearm, and certainly if they are firing it, I don't expect the average cop in 2019 to consider dealing with that in anything other than potentially lethal force, (I don't necessarily condone it, I just know I am asking the impossible of most cops nowadays) but a knife? As long as I am further away than you can throw it with any force at all (what would that be with most knives? And fvck the "21 foot rule," that is a myth created by cops to falsely justify unnecessary lethal responses) I am in no immediate danger from someone with a knife.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

On the surface this looks like suicide by cop.

This shouldn't be a thing, that's the problem. It's just a narrative peddled by the cops when they have to justify shooting an unarmed person.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

You're doing it again, Rube. Your first paragraph seems a fair, measured response, but by the second you qualify another tragic incident of cops killing someone by noting he was breaking the hands-free driving laws and we don't know his criminal background. Who cares about these things? You don't deserve summary execution because you committed a traffic offense, and if we don't know about the guy's criminal background, neither do the cops. The assumption should not be they needed to be so scared for their lives that using lethal force was pulled out of their bag of tricks the first chance they got.

If he has a clean record, he could be mentally ill, or had a moment of mentality lapse. He could have a history of mental illness, or drugs (which after a recent incident, where the suspect was tased 2-3 times, showed no effect, then the police shot the guy). If he's a repeat offender, particularly with a violent background, he could have a gun on him, along with the knife he already presented. Each situation is different. As I said, right now, I'm leaning towards excessive force.

We all can lean one way or the other right now, and neither way is incorrect, yet. Need all the details.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

If he has a clean record, he could be mentally ill, or had a moment of mentality lapse. He could have a history of mental illness, or drugs (which after a recent incident, where the suspect was tased 2-3 times, showed no effect, then the police shot the guy). If he's a repeat offender, particularly with a violent background, he could have a gun on him, along with the knife he already presented. Each situation is different. As I said, right now, I'm leaning towards excessive force.

We all can lean one way or the other right now, and neither way is incorrect, yet. Need all the details.

I'm not taking issue with your comments along the lines of needing all the details before final judgment, I'm taking issue with your inability to keep from qualifying everything from just one side. Sure, maybe the cops acted with unnecessary force, but what if the guy was nuts? Or had a gun? Or a criminal record? You always want to qualify it in some way that gives the cops the excuses they so often need to explain yet another incident of killing someone. It's like you can't process things without introducing the notion that the cops probably acted rationally. The cops get the benefit of your doubt every time. It's a shame but I believe it stems from having close relatives who are cops.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

I'm not taking issue with your comments along the lines of needing all the details before final judgment, I'm taking issue with your inability to keep from qualifying everything from just one side. Sure, maybe the cops acted with unnecessary force, but what if the guy was nuts? Or had a gun? Or a criminal record? You always want to qualify it in some way that gives the cops the excuses they so often need to explain yet another incident of killing someone. It's like you can't process things without introducing the notion that the cops probably acted rationally. The cops get the benefit of your doubt every time. It's a shame but I believe it stems from having close relatives who are cops.

Isn't part of it also a "devils advocate" argument? On any number of issues you have no difficulty finding people on this board who will argue in favor of a certain position. Cop shootings is obviously one of them. If there is a cop shooting and there is any question at all as to the legitimacy of it, there will be 10 posters here offering arguments against the cop. There will be almost no one offering any arguments that the cop might make in his own defense.

I personally find myself sometimes offering up an explanation for something that goes against the common creed on this board in instances where I think that argument needs to be made, even if privately I tend to agree with the group think on the subject.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

If he has a clean record, he could be mentally ill, or had a moment of mentality lapse. He could have a history of mental illness, or drugs (which after a recent incident, where the suspect was tased 2-3 times, showed no effect, then the police shot the guy). If he's a repeat offender, particularly with a violent background, he could have a gun on him, along with the knife he already presented. Each situation is different. As I said, right now, I'm leaning towards excessive force.

We all can lean one way or the other right now, and neither way is incorrect, yet. Need all the details.

I am not sure there is one single solitary additional factor that could argumentatively overcome this observation:

Edina & Richfield police officers can be heard in the live stream video & police dispatch yelling for Brian to “Drop the knife“.

The police gave Quinones a mere .12 seconds to comply with their command before shooting an estimated 15 bullets at him.

While the following does suggest a possible suicide by cop, given how long they were chasing him there was no way for them to be prepared to deploy non-lethal measures? According to at least one witness he was shot in the back - although it's not clear if all of the shots were fired from that direction.

His Facebook page has been flooded with tributes from friends. The last post he made to Facebook, just prior to live-streaming, read: "So sorry."

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Can we prosecute the cops under the RICO Act?

 

[joecct]

Can we prosecute the cops under the RICO Act?

The bishops come first. Necessarily so.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

I'm not taking issue with your comments along the lines of needing all the details before final judgment, I'm taking issue with your inability to keep from qualifying everything from just one side. Sure, maybe the cops acted with unnecessary force, but what if the guy was nuts? Or had a gun? Or a criminal record? You always want to qualify it in some way that gives the cops the excuses they so often need to explain yet another incident of killing someone. It's like you can't process things without introducing the notion that the cops probably acted rationally. The cops get the benefit of your doubt every time. It's a shame but I believe it stems from having close relatives who are cops.

You HAVE to qualify stuff in situations like this. You HAVE to think of ALL possible outcomes, ALL angles, and take ALL the facts in (which we don't know all of) before making a decision on guilt or non-guilt (note: NOT innocence, that's not how our justice system works, which is another discussion).

In these types of situations, there are a lot of moving parts. Given that the cops are trained (yes, sometimes not trained properly, or not even fit for the job), in general, they have to make a split second decision.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

You HAVE to qualify stuff in situations like this. You HAVE to think of ALL possible outcomes, ALL angles, and take ALL the facts

Yeah good advice...

in general, they have to make a split second decision.

And then you don't actually follow it. There's a lot of possibilities, like maybe that's just how they like to frame it to justify their ****ty actions. We've seen so many police shootings where this clearly isn't true.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Yeah good advice...

And then you don't actually follow it. There's a lot of possibilities, like maybe that's just how they like to frame it to justify their ****ty actions. We've seen so many police shootings where this clearly isn't true.

Um, you know that's why training is important. Put you or me in that situation? We'll probably make the wrong decision. Just sayin'.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

What situation, the one where the dude in Chicago got hit 17 times in the back walking away with a knife? Yeah I think I could make the right decision, though perhaps that's because I'm not the type of scumbag that wants to be a cop in 2019.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

What situation, the one where the dude in Chicago got hit 17 times in the back walking away with a knife? Yeah I think I could make the right decision, though perhaps that's because I'm not the type of scumbag that wants to be a cop in 2019.

Okay.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Let me guess, with better training and MOAR COPS Laquan McDonald would still be alive...? But it was a hard split second decision that we're not considering?

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Let me guess, with better training and MOAR COPS Laquan McDonald would still be alive...? But it was a hard split second decision that we're not considering?

Lemme guess, St Paul is begging for more cops right now, per today's Star Tribune?

(again, properly trained cops)