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Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
- Thread starter dxmnkd316
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Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/lawman-befriends-man-who-shot-him/89-588089231
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/lawman-befriends-man-who-shot-him/89-588089231
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
(Now) former officer in Texas found guilty of murder when killing an unarmed black teenager while on duty. Body camera evidence used to convict him.
(Now) former officer in Texas found guilty of murder when killing an unarmed black teenager while on duty. Body camera evidence used to convict him.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/vanessa-marquez-er-shot-killed-police-1202923337/
https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/vanessa-marquez-er-shot-killed-police-1202923337/
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
Someone who was seizing and yet they couldn't gain control of the situation ... in 90 minutes?
Someone who was seizing and yet they couldn't gain control of the situation ... in 90 minutes?
ScoobyDoo
NPC
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
That was the part that makes the whole situation bizarre.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
The polite phrase law enforcement trainers use is "aim for center of mass". In your center of mass are things like a heart, lungs, yadda-yadda.
And as I've said before, most cops spend less time on the fire range than I do (and I'm far from hardcore, maybe 90 minutes a month). And when you look at law enforcement shooting stats*, their accuracy isn't that great. They're aiming center of mass as much to not miss as for the stopping power.
*This book has some good, or is it bad, NYPD accuracy numbers on and off range. Hint: there are single digit percentage numbers in the accuracy data.
The polite phrase law enforcement trainers use is "aim for center of mass". In your center of mass are things like a heart, lungs, yadda-yadda.
And as I've said before, most cops spend less time on the fire range than I do (and I'm far from hardcore, maybe 90 minutes a month). And when you look at law enforcement shooting stats*, their accuracy isn't that great. They're aiming center of mass as much to not miss as for the stopping power.
*This book has some good, or is it bad, NYPD accuracy numbers on and off range. Hint: there are single digit percentage numbers in the accuracy data.
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Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
That is false. You shoot to not miss. Happens to be the torso, where all the important things are.
To be snarky, blame God, he put those things in the torso.
That is false. You shoot to not miss. Happens to be the torso, where all the important things are.
To be snarky, blame God, he put those things in the torso.
unofan
Well-known member
You're surprised by this? Really?
unofan
Well-known member
That is false. You shoot to not miss. Happens to be the torso, where all the important things are.
To be snarky, blame God, he put those things in the torso.
That is also false. Cops are trained to "stop the threat." They are also trained that the best way to "stop the threat" is to deprive the brain of oxygen by shooting holes in the organs responsible for getting blood to the brain. But they definitely aren't trained to shoot to kill.
http://prosecutor.cuyahogacounty.us...rawford-Review of Deadly Force-Tamir Rice.pdf (PDF). Applicable language is in the second to last paragraph.
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
If someone is unpredictable, officers are trained to step back (or take total control of the situation, which we have learned ends badly in current times). There are times where someone is so unhinged, nothing can really be done. It's sad, truly a tragedy, I am serious in saying this. Unfortunately, when someone (apparently) this unhinged points a weapon, the decision has been made. The individual will be shot.
If someone is unpredictable, officers are trained to step back (or take total control of the situation, which we have learned ends badly in current times). There are times where someone is so unhinged, nothing can really be done. It's sad, truly a tragedy, I am serious in saying this. Unfortunately, when someone (apparently) this unhinged points a weapon, the decision has been made. The individual will be shot.
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
What in the actual f? Whoever wrote this piece is talking pure bullsh*. You stop the threat by shooting the largest "bullseye" of said threat. Period. Nothing more. Yes, it's the torso. Yes, the torso contains vital organs. That is not the officer's fault. S/he may hit the gut, may hit the upper right shoulder area, may hit the heart. The only thing that report has right is shooting for the hand that has the gun/etc. AKA "sharpshooting."That is also false. Cops are trained to "stop the threat." They are also trained that the best way to "stop the threat" is to deprive the brain of oxygen by shooting holes in the organs responsible for getting blood to the brain. But they definitely aren't trained to shoot to kill.
http://prosecutor.cuyahogacounty.us...rawford-Review of Deadly Force-Tamir Rice.pdf (PDF). Applicable language is in the second to last paragraph.
unofan
Well-known member
The person who wrote that is a retired supervising special agent with the FBI's training unit. She was one of the experts brought in to assess the Tamir Rice shooting in Cleveland. Shockingly, she sided with the cop.
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
She's part of the problem, then. As I have mentioned many times, I have relatives that have served the force. That was never part of their training. Ever. You simply want to stop the threat. You shoot at the greatest mass, period. Nothing more than that.
She's part of the problem, then. As I have mentioned many times, I have relatives that have served the force. That was never part of their training. Ever. You simply want to stop the threat. You shoot at the greatest mass, period. Nothing more than that.
state of hockey
He fixes the cable?
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
I've always heard center mass from the law enforcement guys I knew in college. My cousin had also said that's what he was trained to do. He stated "If your dead on you'll probably hit them in the liver or stomach."
Still not great, but not necessarily fatal.
I've always heard center mass from the law enforcement guys I knew in college. My cousin had also said that's what he was trained to do. He stated "If your dead on you'll probably hit them in the liver or stomach."
Still not great, but not necessarily fatal.
WeAreNDHockey
\../ \../
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
I think once the shooting starts -- from either the cops or the other guys -- it becomes less of a question as to what they are shooting at. Once the shots start flying you have to EXPECT there will be fatalities. It is an exercise in futility to argue over things like center mass and depriving vital organs of oxygen. I think most reasonable people realize that cops are trained to "shoot to stop" and that parsing that down to its technical details is pointless. As Sic pointed out he sometimes spends 90 minutes a month at a range -- more than most cops -- and those 90 minutes are entirely without the mental strain that is present when cops are reasonably fearful for their safety or the safety of other innocent people. In the heat of battle expecting even a highly proficient officer to hit someone in the wrist so they can't hold their gun anymore is ridiculous and I'm sure most of us here know that.
The real issue is simply the cops are firing at times today that perhaps 30 or 40 or more years ago they weren't (despite the fact that law enforcement is leaps and bounds safer in 2018 than it was 30 or 40 or more years ago -- and I've posted many, many times the empirical data that proves this). We're not hiring the right people to be cops, and we're not holding the wrong ones accountable at an acceptable level when they do discharge a firearm. Once we start seeing reams of black cops shooting unarmed white guys you might be able to also persuade me it is a training problem.
Remember that in the case that unofan linked that report to, the officer had previously served in a suburban department and his chief there thought he was an inept officer, thought that he didn't possess the mental maturity to be a cop, and routinely failed to display a proficient use of his firearm. He had no more business being a cop than I would have being a brain surgeon. Without even getting into any of the issues surrounding the races of the participants or bigotry or profiling, had the CPD simply not hired an individual who should never have been given a badge and allowed to carry a gun, the young man Tamir Rice would almost certainly still be alive. That is the real issue.
I think once the shooting starts -- from either the cops or the other guys -- it becomes less of a question as to what they are shooting at. Once the shots start flying you have to EXPECT there will be fatalities. It is an exercise in futility to argue over things like center mass and depriving vital organs of oxygen. I think most reasonable people realize that cops are trained to "shoot to stop" and that parsing that down to its technical details is pointless. As Sic pointed out he sometimes spends 90 minutes a month at a range -- more than most cops -- and those 90 minutes are entirely without the mental strain that is present when cops are reasonably fearful for their safety or the safety of other innocent people. In the heat of battle expecting even a highly proficient officer to hit someone in the wrist so they can't hold their gun anymore is ridiculous and I'm sure most of us here know that.
The real issue is simply the cops are firing at times today that perhaps 30 or 40 or more years ago they weren't (despite the fact that law enforcement is leaps and bounds safer in 2018 than it was 30 or 40 or more years ago -- and I've posted many, many times the empirical data that proves this). We're not hiring the right people to be cops, and we're not holding the wrong ones accountable at an acceptable level when they do discharge a firearm. Once we start seeing reams of black cops shooting unarmed white guys you might be able to also persuade me it is a training problem.
Remember that in the case that unofan linked that report to, the officer had previously served in a suburban department and his chief there thought he was an inept officer, thought that he didn't possess the mental maturity to be a cop, and routinely failed to display a proficient use of his firearm. He had no more business being a cop than I would have being a brain surgeon. Without even getting into any of the issues surrounding the races of the participants or bigotry or profiling, had the CPD simply not hired an individual who should never have been given a badge and allowed to carry a gun, the young man Tamir Rice would almost certainly still be alive. That is the real issue.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!
Aim for center of mass; fire until the threat is stopped.
Aim for center of mass; fire until the threat is stopped.
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