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Deutsche Gopher Fan
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Agreed. I have several friends in Minneapolis pd. These are not kill shot snipers
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Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
- Thread starter joecct
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Agreed. I have several friends in Minneapolis pd. These are not kill shot snipers
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
To add to that, unless you are a sociopath, no matter how well you are trained, there is some level of anxiety. It could be very minimal, but there is a level. You are shooting at another human being (and also the fear that you will be harmed). A common misconception is that one shot should do it. That could be the case, but in that position, do you want to take that chance? You fire until you deem the threat to be neutralized.
To add to that, unless you are a sociopath, no matter how well you are trained, there is some level of anxiety. It could be very minimal, but there is a level. You are shooting at another human being (and also the fear that you will be harmed). A common misconception is that one shot should do it. That could be the case, but in that position, do you want to take that chance? You fire until you deem the threat to be neutralized.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
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That being said, the dog stuff is disturbing. My MPLS pd friends ironically have staffordshire dogs, just like the ones shot. And their dogs are truly nanny dogs, babying their kids. I suspect my friends struggle with this shooting too.
Edit- not a commentary on shooting humans, I don't ask them opinions on things like the philandro shooting for a reason.
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
I'm going to wait until everything comes out. On the surface....uh-oh.....but the dog owner didn't help herself by saying that the dogs were doing their job...that implies protecting the property/owner, which could constitute a threat to the "invaders" which in this case are police officers.
I'm going to wait until everything comes out. On the surface....uh-oh.....but the dog owner didn't help herself by saying that the dogs were doing their job...that implies protecting the property/owner, which could constitute a threat to the "invaders" which in this case are police officers.
unofan
Well-known member
yeah, but let's be honest. They're trained to shoot at an area where the likely result is going to be death. You can call it stopping the threat, if that makes you feel better, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's still a duck.
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
You probably think that a cop can shoot the gun out of someone's hand.
You shoot where you have the most likely chance to hit your target. Yes, that area happens to have vital organs. No, cops are not trained to hit those vital organs. They are trained to hit that large mass of area.
You probably think that a cop can shoot the gun out of someone's hand.
You shoot where you have the most likely chance to hit your target. Yes, that area happens to have vital organs. No, cops are not trained to hit those vital organs. They are trained to hit that large mass of area.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
What you're missing is that not all cops in every country are trained to do this. Like in Finland they shoot to maim and stop the suspect.
What you're missing is that not all cops in every country are trained to do this. Like in Finland they shoot to maim and stop the suspect.
Silly, IMO. If you draw your weapon, you're not contemplating a slap on the wrist. If you want to disable the suspect/perp/citizen, use a taser.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
I believe the time-honored cliches are never pull a weapon unless you intend to fire it and never fire a weapon at someone unless you intend to kill.
I believe the time-honored cliches are never pull a weapon unless you intend to fire it and never fire a weapon at someone unless you intend to kill.
unofan
Well-known member
You probably think that a cop can shoot the gun out of someone's hand.
You shoot where you have the most likely chance to hit your target. Yes, that area happens to have vital organs. No, cops are not trained to hit those vital organs. They are trained to hit that large mass of area.
I'm saying it's doublespeak, nothing more. They say they're trained to "stop the threat" because it plays well to juries in the inevitable lawsuit and it probably gives them some personal absolution in the rare event they have to fire their weapon (I didn't intend to kill that person, I just wanted to stop him).
But the fact remains that the way they stop the threat is almost inevitably by killing the person. Hell, I previously linked to a former FBI trainer's report on the Cleveland police shooting involving the 12 year old, and her words were even starker. Something along the lines of "the most effective way to stop a threat is to prevent oxygen from reaching the decision-making center" or something to that effect. So they aren't trained to kill, they're just trained to deprive the brain of oxygen through blood loss.
To any lay person, that sounds a helluva lot like being trained to kill.
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trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Is it silly that they don't kill as many people as they do here?
unofan
Well-known member
Found it:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ghyMA8&usg=AFQjCNHdsEpGJyIdEdOXg_BjDms-VdWrxg
The money line (sorry about the formatting, copying from a PDF on my phone): "Police officers are not trained to “shoot to kill.” Rather, they are trained to shoot to stop an imminent threat. The quickest, most efficient and practical way for a law enforcement officer to forcibly bring about a timely halt to threatening actions is to deprive the subject’s brain of the oxygen necessary to continue conscious action. Because oxygen is carried to the brain by blood, law enforcement officers are trained to aim for center mass where most of the blood-bearing organs are located."
So they're not trained to kill, they're just trained to deprive the brain of oxygen, something that inherently results in death.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
c.f.: Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't a murderer. He was a chef.
c.f.: Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't a murderer. He was a chef.
What was his favorite dish? Italian? Chinese? Thai?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
What oops? There was nothing "awkward" in his response to her questions, despite the spin by the Newsweak reporter.
Stops like this happen thousands of times daily across the US and Canada.
I'd run hundreds of plates through the computer during an 8 or 10 hour shift. Recovered I don't know how many stolen vehicles, arrested IDK how many people for warrants.
It's called proactive policing.
What oops? There was nothing "awkward" in his response to her questions, despite the spin by the Newsweak reporter.
Stops like this happen thousands of times daily across the US and Canada.
I'd run hundreds of plates through the computer during an 8 or 10 hour shift. Recovered I don't know how many stolen vehicles, arrested IDK how many people for warrants.
It's called proactive policing.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Euphemisms are fun.
Are you going to argue there's no DWB problem? Because 10% of the population would like a word with you.
Euphemisms are fun.
Are you going to argue there's no DWB problem? Because 10% of the population would like a word with you.
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
I'm not going to argue, but this stop doesn't show any evidence of DWB. Oh, and in case you missed it at 2:11 into the video, the officer's partner is black!
The tint on the windows would make it difficult to determine the race of the driver, especially around dusk as this appears to be. But what would I know about that?
I'm not going to argue, but this stop doesn't show any evidence of DWB. Oh, and in case you missed it at 2:11 into the video, the officer's partner is black!
The tint on the windows would make it difficult to determine the race of the driver, especially around dusk as this appears to be. But what would I know about that?
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Is this another of those "but Finland has a homogeneous population so it works" things? I don't see how.
okay, what I learned in my five minutes of research about socialist countries that don't have all those pesky "constitutional rights" is that most of the cops just carry tasers since the people aren't allowed to have guns. So I guess that explains that: "You'll feel safer here in this little padded box and we'll feed you twice a day..."
Is this seriously real? I can't think of a worse policy than expecting a cop under fire to take careful aim at a moving ankle bone before defending himself. It just seems bizarre. Can you imagine how many more dead cops we'd have in the U.S. if we tried this?
Is this another of those "but Finland has a homogeneous population so it works" things? I don't see how.
okay, what I learned in my five minutes of research about socialist countries that don't have all those pesky "constitutional rights" is that most of the cops just carry tasers since the people aren't allowed to have guns. So I guess that explains that: "You'll feel safer here in this little padded box and we'll feed you twice a day..."
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