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Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Slap Shot said:
The problem with your analogy is that a cop approaching that car is more likely to put the driver in your hypothetical on edge - and therefore the driver is more likely to react with malice on average - than if he was approached by a civilian and unaware that he is carrying. I have no issue calling out cops who commit crimes and this case I believe the jury got it wrong, but your analogy doesn't make the case against him.

btw this is the kind of mentality that makes you wonder:



Yea buddy smoking weed near a child = "cop killa". He was nicely coached by his handlers.
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That second part: training. TRAINING. I get his thought process, but that is incorrect.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Oops I deleted because I was going to start over, but since you already quoted me I'll repost: :)

WeAreNDHockey said:
PTry this scenario. Say you're a civilian. A car in front of you backs up and strikes your car. Doesn't appear to be anything intentional you think, just a distracted driver who maybe didn't notice you were parked behind him. You walk up to his window to exchange insurance info and what not. You happen to be carrying a firearm, legally, just because you almost always do. You get up to the guy's window and notice he has a gun. Well, this is a potentially odd situation, after all he just backed into you, so now you're heart is racing a little bit more. In a matter of just a few seconds you -- for some reason known only to you -- decide that gun you see is a threat, so to protect your life, you pull your own weapon and fire 7 shots through his window, striking him fatally and endangering the lives of his passenger and a completely innocent little kid in the backseat. You think you're gonna walk away with an acquittal? You think you could say that you deserve the benefit of the doubt because you did not get all that training in how to use your weapon and how to control a situation and how to de-escalate potential threats? Do you think a judge is going to find reason to intruct your jury in such a way as to almost guarantee either a not guilty verdict or a hung jury? Yeah, I didn't think so either.
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The problem with your analogy is that a cop approaching that car is more likely to put the driver in your hypothetical on edge - and therefore the driver is more likely to react with malice on average - than if he was approached by a civilian and unaware that he is carrying. I have no issue calling out cops who commit crimes and this case I believe the jury got it wrong, but your analogy doesn't make the case against him.

btw this is the kind of mentality that makes you wonder:

Yanez then told investigators that as he was firing, “I thought I was gonna die and I thought if he’s, if he has the, the guts and the audacity to smoke marijuana in front of the five year old girl and risk her lungs and risk her life by giving her secondhand smoke and the front seat passenger doing the same thing then what, what care does he give about me. And, I let off the rounds and then after the rounds were off, the little girls (sic) was screaming.”
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Yea buddy smoking weed near a child = "cop killa". He was nicely coached by his handlers.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Brenthoven said:
And yes, you walk up to the window, that is why you have your partner on the other side, a bit back. That's SOP.
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Of course, but part of the reason he panicked (it appears) is that he placed himself in an vulnerable position at the window. Most officers are trained to remain back behind the driver's left shoulder for that very reason. From that position, they can still see everything the driver does while minimizing their own exposure. Because they are safer, they are less likely to pose a danger to others. Training, as you say.

I think another reason training is so critical (in addition to the danger that is inherent to the job) is that those who are drawn to become law enforcement officers are sometimes the very people who are apt to be offenders. Maybe the control aspect or the attraction to using firearms as a tool for the job--I don't know. And this notion is anecdotal and part of my own experience. I don't have any studies to back it up.
 
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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Brenthoven said:
there is reasonable doubt.
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No there isn't. If it was murder that he was being tried for then sure but it's manslaughter, ie he accidentally killed someone he shouldn't have. And the key word here is reasonable, there was no reasonable fear of being shot in this situation. The guy disclosed that he had a weapon on him with the kid/gf in the car and was pulled over for what would've amounted to a warning most likely. The idea that he was any threat to start shooting is ludicrous and his fellow officer appears to feel the same way.

dxmnkd316 said:
What the hell? He did not actually say that. Did he?
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/killed-castile-pot-smell-made-fear-life-article-1.3265188

You can probably add this to cop shooting bingo card.
 
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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

trixR4kids said:
No there isn't. If it was murder that he was being tried for then sure but it's manslaughter, ie he accidentally killed someone he shouldn't have. And the key word here is reasonable, there was no reasonable fear of being shot in this situation. The guy disclosed that he had a weapon on him with the kid/gf in the car and was pulled over for what would've amounted to a warning most likely. The idea that he was any threat to start shooting is ludicrous and his fellow officer appears to feel the same way.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/killed-castile-pot-smell-made-fear-life-article-1.3265188

You can probably add this to cop shooting bingo card.
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With the law phrased as it is, there is reasonable doubt. Yet again, I think the verdict was incorrect, and today's article in the STrib had some good explanations as to why the jurors ruled they way they did, which I also understand as to why they thought that way, however...still reasonable doubt.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Brenthoven said:
With the law phrased as it is, there is reasonable doubt. Yet again, I think the verdict was incorrect, and today's article in the STrib had some good explanations as to why the jurors ruled they way they did, which I also understand as to why they thought that way, however...still reasonable doubt.
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Not reasonable to me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/...-castile-trial.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

“Part of what may have made a difference to the jury was the officer’s very emotional reaction after the shooting. He’s somebody who realizes that he’s made a grievous mistake. It’s certainly an argument for a manslaughter conviction rather than a murder conviction. People who do harm in the heat of the moment still deserve punishment.” — Mr. Butler, former prosecutor
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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Scooby, when's the last time anything in this world was ever reasonable to you?
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

ScoobyDoo said:
Not reasonable to me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/...-castile-trial.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
“Part of what may have made a difference to the jury was the officer’s very emotional reaction after the shooting. He’s somebody who realizes that he’s made a grievous mistake. It’s certainly an argument for a manslaughter conviction rather than a murder conviction. People who do harm in the heat of the moment still deserve punishment.” — Mr. Butler, former prosecutor
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I completely agree with that statement...a police officer realizing he made a grievous mistake does not excuse him from manslaughter.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Shirtless Guy said:
I completely agree with that statement...a police officer realizing he made a grievous mistake does not excuse him from manslaughter.
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Yet to this jury it did. His reaction should have been evidence against him and not a sympathy card.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
Jesus. Another one. Boy and dog shot. Both dead.

http://abc7.com/news/suspect-killed-in-deputy-involved-shooting-in-palmdale-authorities-say/2131277/
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Cops know there is almost no chance they will be charged -- let alone convicted -- if they discharge their firearms. Even if unarmed and seemingly innocent people die. All that's going to do is make it keep happening. And more often. With every one of these acquittals or every one of the times the prosecutor decides no crime was committed, it will embolden the worst cops to behave in the worst ways.

At some point the good people in law enforcement are going to come to regret their insistence on this blue wall of silence. At some point there will be a runaway train of violence directed at them. We've already seen it with the likes of the shocking ambush killings last year of 5 cops in Texas.

Just like right now the republicans are really the only ones who can save this country from trump, the cops themselves -- the good, decent ones who really are cops because they want to help people and make their communities better places to live -- had better get their own 5h!t together and ferret out the bad ones. Because if you are deranged enough to go out and kill cops for revenge are you gonna first determine which are the good ones and which are the ones who got away with killing an innocent kid? No you're not.
 
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