Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Singling out a certain group isn't exactly uniting for a cause. It divides more than it unites. I'm tired of "us and them" sort of things. WE all need to work together. WE need to be on the same side. That post was worded poorly, IMO, and I needed to say what I thought needed to be said. The OP clarified what he thought, afterwards, and that is a good thing.

Except my post wasn't poorly written Brent. It used the correct words for the thought I wanted to express about the situation the way I (and apparently most others here on this particular forum) see it. It goes along the same lines of those who find fault with the Black Lives Matter movement who can only focus on the "black" part of that equation and exclaim "well ALL lives matter." Of course all lives matter, and of course we all need to work together. The problem is black people are doing almost all of the heavy lifting when it comes to the topic of the police using more force than necessary and it seems that is because in large part, black people are the ones suffering the most from it in numbers far out of proportion to their share of our population. One of the many things I learned when I was on the ground throughout the election season last year was that white people by and large did not identify AT ALL with the problems faced by black people when it comes to criminal justice reform and most not only didn't identify with it, they flat out did not think it was a serious enough issue to consider when it came to who they would vote for. I opined on it a million times in the presidential threads as a reason Hillary was not connecting with white voters in fact.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

I am not sorry that I feel that "BLAME WHITEY" is a more than common rallying cry.

And yet you have no problem with "blame blackey" for getting shot while committing a misdemeanor.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Except my post wasn't poorly written Brent. It used the correct words for the thought I wanted to express about the situation the way I (and apparently most others here on this particular forum) see it. It goes along the same lines of those who find fault with the Black Lives Matter movement who can only focus on the "black" part of that equation and exclaim "well ALL lives matter." Of course all lives matter, and of course we all need to work together. The problem is black people are doing almost all of the heavy lifting when it comes to the topic of the police using more force than necessary and it seems that is because in large part, black people are the ones suffering the most from it in numbers far out of proportion to their share of our population. One of the many things I learned when I was on the ground throughout the election season last year was that white people by and large did not identify AT ALL with the problems faced by black people when it comes to criminal justice reform and most not only didn't identify with it, they flat out did not think it was a serious enough issue to consider when it came to who they would vote for. I opined on it a million times in the presidential threads as a reason Hillary was not connecting with white voters in fact.

You singled out a group. A specific group. You later clarified, kudos to you (I am genuine on that note), but it's still "Blame white males." It's a lazy argument/stance. I'm tired of it. I'm sick of the "us" and "them" stances in discussions/debates.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

And yet you have no problem with "blame blackey" for getting shot while committing a misdemeanor.

Bullsh*. That is simply bullsh*.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

And yet you have no problem with "blame blackey" for getting shot while committing a misdemeanor.

Yanez incident. That cop should be in jail.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Singling out a certain group isn't exactly uniting for a cause. It divides more than it unites. I'm tired of "us and them" sort of things. WE all need to work together. WE need to be on the same side. That post was worded poorly, IMO, and I needed to say what I thought needed to be said. The OP clarified what he thought, afterwards, and that is a good thing.

I'm going to say right now that this "I'm tired of this 'us and them' We need to work together! We need to be on the same!" attitude is basically just code for "why can't you just shut up and accept it?"

People need to understand that there are differences in experiences for different races, gender, age, income etc. There is no "WE" and there never has been. The problem is that a large majority of white people somehow either think racism is dead and doesn't exist or only exists in southern backwaters, that things have been fixed and what's with all the complaining? What's really needed is people need to take a step back, listen, and gain an understanding that there's a different perspective.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Bullsh*. That is simply bullsh*.

So, guy has a stolen gun, doesn't do what the police ask him to, gets shot. And the solution is to burn down Milwaukee? Disgusting.

Note: I don't wish the deceased dead, BUT, he made some bad decisions that had bad results. Sickened by the reaction to the officers/medical personnel. Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

It took all of the first three pages of the thread to find you victim blaming. Maybe bullsh1t means something else where you're from...

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

You singled out a group. A specific group. You later clarified, kudos to you (I am genuine on that note), but it's still "Blame white males." It's a lazy argument/stance. I'm tired of it. I'm sick of the "us" and "them" stances in discussions/debates.

Sometimes a specific group does need to be singled out. That's uncomfortable, I know. I don't hesitate to point it out when it is true. There are issues in the labor movement or with unions (I have been deeply involved in the labor movement for years and it is my career) and when the union is wrong and responsible for the fix to move in a better direction, I won't say otherwise.

So you say it is a lazy argument/stance and you're sick of the "us" and "them" stance in discussions or debates. Tell me, how do black people and other people of color work together with white people to fix the problem this thread is dedicated to? How do people of color -- and it is overwhelmingly people of color being shot and killed, overwhelmingly by white cops -- come up with a solution to what is basically a hammer and nail issue? The nail is not half the problem when it comes to being pounded down, and you seem to think that the nail is. What specifically should they be doing?

I'm going to say right now that this "I'm tired of this 'us and them' We need to work together! We need to be on the same!" attitude is basically just code for "why can't you just shut up and accept it?"

People need to understand that there are differences in experiences for different races, gender, age, income etc. There is no "WE" and there never has been. The problem is that a large majority of white people somehow either think racism is dead and doesn't exist or only exists in southern backwaters, that things have been fixed and what's with all the complaining? What's really needed is people need to take a step back, listen, and gain an understanding that there's a different perspective.

Very true.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

It took all of the first three pages of the thread to find you victim blaming. Maybe bullsh1t means something else where you're from...

Nice nitpick there. There ARE instances where a cop is justified. There are other instances when they are not justified. Have some common sense.

If someone is going to pull a gun on a cop, things won't go well.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

What's really needed is people need to take a step back, listen, and gain an understanding that there's a different perspective.

This. PEOPLE.

Not white people, not black people, not males, not females. People in general. This is what I'm getting at.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

This. PEOPLE.

Not white people, not black people, not males, not females. People in general. This is what I'm getting at.

But not the Irish.

 

[unofan]

This. PEOPLE.

Not white people, not black people, not males, not females. People in general. This is what I'm getting at.

Black people have known police are racist pretty much since this country was founded. White people, and especially educated white people who probably only deal with the police when pulled over for speeding, have only started recognizing it since cell phone cameras became a thing.

One group has decidedly more to do than the other...

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Don't Be Black and From Out of Town in Denver

Just a few more bad apples...probably feared for their life amirite?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Don't Be Black and From Out of Town in Denver

Just a few more bad apples...probably feared for their life amirite?

From the article:

Attorneys for the plaintiff said police body camera video proves their client was illegally held at gunpoint, thrown to the ground and arrested without probable cause.

In other words, assault and kidnapping. I see no reason if the cops acted illegally that they shouldn't be prosecuted as such. The magic badge gives them certain privileges within the law. Outside of the law they're just hoodlums.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

They show part of the video in the news story...he is literally just sitting in the car and they arrest him cause they say he doesnt belong thre.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

From the article:



In other words, assault and kidnapping. I see no reason if the cops acted illegally that they shouldn't be prosecuted as such. The magic badge gives them certain privileges within the law. Outside of the law they're just hoodlums.

Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and aggravated kidnapping. You know, since they unlawfully brandished their guns.

It shouldn't be a double standard. If found to be illegally and maliciously using a weapon like that, it should be the same charges a civilian faces.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and aggravated kidnapping. You know, since they unlawfully brandished their guns.

It shouldn't be a double standard. If found to be illegally and maliciously using a weapon like that, it should be the same charges a civilian faces.

Agreed.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and aggravated kidnapping. You know, since they unlawfully brandished their guns.

It shouldn't be a double standard. If found to be illegally and maliciously using a weapon like that, it should be the same charges a civilian faces.

Don't hold your breath. And if any cop faces charges, count on a lackluster attempt at a prosecution by a DA who is basically complicit to ensure a hung jury at worst.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Don't hold your breath. And if any cop faces charges, count on a lackluster attempt at a prosecution by a DA who is basically complicit to ensure a hung jury at worst.

It would be interesting to try to move the DA slot towards a far more independent and unbiased position on the spectrum (where they are supposed to be). All too often they are just the legal department for the cops.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Yeesh

So if I fear for my life can I kill people who walk away from me without a weapon too?