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Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

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Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

St. Clown said:
What's the source data for that? I'm curious how they came to those rates - which values are they combining?
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It's from the link above from the tax policy center. I made the spreadsheet.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

I see what you're getting at with deductions and everything. Yeah, it should be noted that this would be taxable income not overall gross.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

St. Clown said:
The reason I ask is that when you look at taxes as a percentage of GDP, the graph looks entirely different.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/FYFRGDA188S
Click to expand...

That graph says many things, and some of them are not at all what many people who cite it probably have in mind.

For example, it half shows that while we have a much larger government, we refuse to pay for it. (Needed for the other half: the graph of expenditure by GNP). And of course it doesn't show the wax and wane of inequality driven by the differences in rates and what this does to overall American economic health and welfare. And it doesn't show the sudden rise of the deficit that just happens to accompany the plummeting of the progressiveness of the tax structure and growing inequality.

My favorite misleading graph of the latter is when conservatives roll out studies that show the overall percentage of the tax burden is growing on the wealthiest. Which of course it is, since their slice of the pie gets larger relative to the entire rest of the labor force.
 
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Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

Kepler said:
Another nail in the coffin of conservative economics.
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"But for those who don’t know much about either history or the world outside America, the Obama economy offers a powerful lesson in the here and now. From a conservative point of view, Mr. Obama did everything wrong, afflicting the comfortable (slightly) and comforting the afflicted (a lot), and nothing bad happened. We can, it turns out, make our society better after all."

That's an understatement. Folks have been predicting the beginning of the end for 8 years and the US economy has been on a roll. Its been on a roll through terror and international chaos. Its been on a roll through European stagnation and Chinese market crash. Its been on a roll through elevated taxes (debatable) and congressional gridlock. There's enough signs that the Dems are all good on the economy. Personally, I think taxes and government are somewhere between neutral and a net positive for the country. Tax money gets pumped back into the economy. Who collects your garbage, who does roadwork, (and although I'm not a fan) who builds your military? These are private companies who actually do the work most of the time.

I see how a state funded stadium has led to regional beautification/park system of the east side of Minneapolis. This in turn is driving new company expansions and a host of condo buildings...which is leading to commercial development. This speaks nothing of broader prestige and events driven by said stadium...and frankly nothing of improving lifestyle due to having a team. And a brand new light rail system going throughout the area. When you build...you force revitalization. When you starve...you force stagnation. Sorry Wisconsin...you have a tough road ahead.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

Kepler said:
That graph says many things, and some of them are not at all what many people who cite it probably have in mind.

For example, it half shows that while we have a much larger government, we refuse to pay for it. (Needed for the other half: the graph of expenditure by GNP). And of course it doesn't show the wax and wane of inequality driven by the differences in rates and what this does to overall American economic health and welfare. And it doesn't show the sudden rise of the deficit that just happens to accompany the plummeting of the progressiveness of the tax structure and growing inequality.

My favorite misleading graph of the latter is when conservatives roll out studies that show the overall percentage of the tax burden is growing on the wealthiest. Which of course it is, since their slice of the pie gets larger relative to the entire rest of the labor force.
Click to expand...

Actually, what it shows is that the rate of tax collections has averaged between 15-20% of GDP. Government expenditures are an entirely independent issue of absolutely anything shown in that graph. All other meaning is assigned by the political leanings of the person reading it.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

St. Clown said:
Actually, what it shows is that the rate of tax collections has averaged between 15-20% of GDP. Government expenditures are an entirely independent issue of absolutely anything shown in that graph. All other meaning is assigned by the political leanings of the person reading it.
Click to expand...

That's actually one of the few things it doesn't show. I understand that is the meme that is deployed by those who want to stop us from raising taxes ("it won't increase revenue"), but it really, really does not say that at all.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

I think we're completely missing the point here. It doesn't matter if tax collections are consistent with GDP. What matters is the tax burden has completely shifted to the middle class. THAT is what has been the anchor around the neck of the middle class. That is NOT fair or conducive to the engine that drives this economy and really the world's economy.

Pretty much what the combination of these two graphs shows. The tax rates on the richest Americans has absolutely plummeted under Reagan and Bush II.

What it also tells me is that the whole line of bulls*** that tax receipts increase as the rich get taxed less is indeed bull. We should have seen a proportional increase if that was the case. Yet, all it says is we've given the rich a pass and allowed the middle class to wallow. We should have seen more millionaires coming with the lower tax rate, the converse of, "If we raise taxes on the rich, they will all leave."
 
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