Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

[PrezdeJohnson09]

So as many know I've been advocate of a joint D3 hockey championship for quite some time now....

To me it makes a lot of sense given the niche fanbase of D-III hockey as well as the general theme that many of the top D-III women's programs also have top D-III men's programs giving the chance to have one or multiple schools having both teams playing on the final weekend.

One potential caveat that I just found out is that starting next season, the D-III men's and women's championships no longer align for the next four seasons.

With the mass announcement of the 2015-18 championship site hosts, we know that the next four host sites on the men's side will be.

2015: Ridder Arena, Minneapolis, Minn.
2016: Herb Brooks Arena, Lake Placid, NY
2017: Utica Memorial Auditorium, Utica, NY
2018: Herb Brooks Arena, Lake Placid, NY

However, the week of the championship has been PUSHED back one week making next year's semifinal and championship dates March 27 and 28. It will remain that week for the following three seasons. My guess is this was done to accomodate Ridder Arena and Lake Placid so that they could still host when the current weekend of the championship was taken up by the Women's Frozen Four in 2015 and then the ECAC Hockey Championships in 2016 and 2018.

The women's championship is still slated to be March 20 and 21 which aligns with the Women's Frozen Four.

Here's my new plea so we can get a comparison of if combined championships is the route to go.

Combine the women's D1 and D3 next year in Ridder and see what kind of crowds turnout and see if any of the D1 fans are interested in the D3 games.

The following year, (this would require the D3 women's schedule to be pushed back one week) combine the D3 women and D3 men in Lake Placid.

If both committees aren't satisfied with the results, they go their separate ways after. D3 men are already locked down for the next two years anyway and then the women could return to campus sites.

The atmosphere at Plattsburgh this season for the women's D3 Frozen Four was electric. It was the perfect combination of events though with the Plattsburgh men being knocked out far earlier and not playing past the SUNYAC semifinal rounds. If Plattsburgh was in Lewiston, is the crowd as good? Probably not. Or if Plattsburgh isn't playing Norwich, you definitely don't have 250-300 or so Norwich fans there like there was to add to the crowd.

IMHO, only Plattsburgh, Norwich, Middlebury and Elmira could produce anything similiar for an atmosphere on the D3 women's side. Granted, the likelyhood of one of those four teams NOT being picked as the host in the East for the forseeable future isn't strong. It's still out there.

Let's not forget that the D3 women's championship this year only trailed the D3 men's championship in attendance offically by about 200 fans....

Give it a shot...see what happens. It's two years, if it doesn't work, go back to campus sites for the women.

 

[ColdInRomney]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

Aye.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

Are they moving the Play In round to a Saturday then too?

My only concern is the size on the venue. We heard stories from those in Lewiston about having to hotel it 30 minutes away. Now you're adding 4 more teams, granted the women's "fans" won't be anywhere near the number of men's, but you will need ample hotel space for the teams. It needs to be done. Nothing against DI, but let them have their own party and let us little DIII fans have ours. But you know it won't work because it makes too much sense. Maybe the Lake Placid Committee and Ridder Committee need to pressure the NCAA into it or have they? The towns of hosting cities could really push too. It's a total win win for both the game and hosting cities. 4 more teams, 4 more teams fans (well maybe), more exposure, great hockey. My only question, are the towns like Plattsburgh, Northfield, Elmira ect against it because now they will be losing that "big" weekend? I'm not sure how much of a "money maker" it is for the schools/town hosting a Womens Final Four, but it would be interesting to see their thoughts. It would also guarantee the West a chance to see a Women's Final Four.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

Are they moving the Play In round to a Saturday then too?

My only concern is the size on the venue. We heard stories from those in Lewiston about having to hotel it 30 minutes away. Now you're adding 4 more teams, granted the women's "fans" won't be anywhere near the number of men's, but you will need ample hotel space for the teams. It needs to be done. Nothing against DI, but let them have their own party and let us little DIII fans have ours. But you know it won't work because it makes too much sense. Maybe the Lake Placid Committee and Ridder Committee need to pressure the NCAA into it or have they? The towns of hosting cities could really push too. It's a total win win for both the game and hosting cities. 4 more teams, 4 more teams fans (well maybe), more exposure, great hockey. My only question, are the towns like Plattsburgh, Northfield, Elmira ect against it because now they will be losing that "big" weekend? I'm not sure how much of a "money maker" it is for the schools/town hosting a Womens Final Four, but it would be interesting to see their thoughts. It would also guarantee the West a chance to see a Women's Final Four.

The men's play-in round will be on Saturday for the next four years instead of Wednesday as it has been.

The west is also already guaranteed to host the D3 women's once every four years by rule set forth by the committee.

I'm not sure how much of a "money-maker" the D3 women's frozen four is for surrounding towns. It certainly doesn't make money for Northfield except for maybe the local restaurants and bars. However, places like Barre, Berlin and Montpelier certainly see a bit of revenue from teams and fans purchasing hotel rooms and then eating at restaurants.

I have to think Lake Placid could handle 8 teams. Every year the men's D3 championship has been there they have still had Can-Am tournaments going on with teams and families all staying in the area. The Training Center certainly has more rooms to be able to accomodate four more teams as well. There are tons of hotels/motels in Lake Placid and the surrounding area.

 

[Saints17]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

I believe the participants stay at the Olympic Training Center in Lake Placid.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

I really wish Prezde would stop making so much sense. It's really annoying...

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

I believe the participants stay at the Olympic Training Center in Lake Placid.

That's what Prezde said when he mentioned there are more rooms available. Putting up extra teams in LP is not a problem because of this and putting up extra teams in Minneapolis is certainly not going to be a problem.

Hotel space is not an issue in the Twin Cities and as Prezde pointed out, LP didn't have an issue hosting the D3 men's and the Can-Am tournament (and they had a ton of teams and thus parents) at the same time.

Very interesting idea which as Prezde says, everything aligns perfectly for this dual experiment -- all women together and then all D3 together.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

The men's play-in round will be on Saturday for the next four years instead of Wednesday as it has been.

Score, about time. Tho will the week off have rust on some teams? Then again you can argue that a week off could heal others.

The west is also already guaranteed to host the D3 women's once every four years by rule set forth by the committee.

Okay, makes sense. I was still under the impression the top remaining seed hosted if possible. I've tried to get into Womens hockey, but it's just hard unless its only a handful of teams.

I'm not sure how much of a "money-maker" the D3 women's frozen four is for surrounding towns. It certainly doesn't make money for Northfield except for maybe the local restaurants and bars. However, places like Barre, Berlin and Montpelier certainly see a bit of revenue from teams and fans purchasing hotel rooms and then eating at restaurants.

That's what I was implying. When host teams have the Final Four there is a trickle down to the local businesses. Now are we talking NASCAR at Watkins Glen? No, but there has to be some positive revenue when hosting.

I have to think Lake Placid could handle 8 teams. Every year the men's D3 championship has been there they have still had Can-Am tournaments going on with teams and families all staying in the area. The Training Center certainly has more rooms to be able to accomodate four more teams as well. There are tons of hotels/motels in Lake Placid and the surrounding area.

Im not talking about Lake Placid. My point was if this does happen (which it should), come 2019 does it limit the bids? If Lake Placid can host the Olympics, yes I realize they can host another 4 womens DIII teams. Same for the Twin Cities. The issue is can the little towns, which may be able to host 4 teams, can they host 8? I've been all in for a rotating between Lake Placid, Minny, and a "New England/Rotating" 3rd site (Lewiston/Utica), but we don't need places were fans have to drive 30-45 minutes after/prior to the game for a hotel. If Plattsburgh makes the FF in a town like Lewiston, yes I'm going but after reading some of the Con's of the town I don't know if I'd go as a casual fan, where as Lake Placid/Utica have more to do around the immediate area. Then again, people complained about Lake Placid the first couple years too......

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

Has anyone done any research and or reporting as to "why" the NCAA would be against this and or if they even are against it?(besides the fact it makes sense) Or how the teams / current hosting sites feel about it? Would make for a very interesting article......

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

Has anyone done any research and or reporting as to "why" the NCAA would be against this and or if they even are against it?(besides the fact it makes sense) Or how the teams / current hosting sites feel about it? Would make for a very interesting article......

I don't know how the men's committee feels about it but I do know the women's has actively pursued a joint championship venture with the D1 women.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

The west is also already guaranteed to host the D3 women's once every four years by rule set forth by the committee.

I could've sworn I heard and/or read somewhere that this rule was nixed with this most recent update of criteria?

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

I could've sworn I heard and/or read somewhere that this rule was nixed with this most recent update of criteria?

It is NOT nixed. I have that on good authority.

The women's D-III FF WILL BE out west at some point in the next three seasons unless the rule is changed between right now and the end of that three-year time period.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

It is NOT nixed. I have that on good authority.

The women's D-III FF WILL BE out west at some point in the next three seasons unless the rule is changed between right now and the end of that three-year time period.

The whole concept makes way too much sense for the NCAA to adopt it. D III hockey (both men's and women's) needs to be exposed on a big stage to get an opportunity to grow. There would be a great synergy for both of these experiments, particularly the all DIII event. If a couple of the schools that are strong in both men's and women's hockey would have both teams in the finals, it could really create a great atmosphere.

 

[joecct]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

The committee was not in favor of teams staying at the training center in L.P.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

The committee was not in favor of teams staying at the training center in L.P.

I bet it saves them a lot of money putting the teams up there rather than having to pay for the hotel rooms downtown.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

The committee was not in favor of teams staying at the training center in L.P.

Then the committee is filled with idiots.

There is no reason not to like it, not the least of which is costs. I thought the NCAA is all about not spending money on D3...

 

[NUProf]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

Then the committee is filled with idiots.

There is no reason not to like it, not the least of which is costs. I thought the NCAA is all about not spending money on D3...

They are afraid of confrontations between teams that are billeted in too close proximity to each other. They don't trust student-athletes to behave as responsible adults. That is also why the require that teams that have lost be whisked off the site so that they don't misbehave after they are eliminated from the tournament.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

They are afraid of confrontations between teams that are billeted in too close proximity to each other. They don't trust student-athletes to behave as responsible adults. That is also why the require that teams that have lost be whisked off the site so that they don't misbehave after they are eliminated from the tournament.

Evacuation is not a requirement, but a team choice...and usually is based on proximity - i.e. Oswego departure from Lake Placid the years they did not make the final was Gosek's call...this year they stayed in Lewiston that night due to the drive time...no one told them to go home....

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Evacuation is not a requirement, but a team choice...and usually is based on proximity - i.e. Oswego departure from Lake Placid the years they did not make the final was Gosek's call...this year they stayed in Lewiston that night due to the drive time...no one told them to go home....

The Norwich men stayed the night and left the next day all three years that they lost in the Semifinals.

 

[Saints17]

Re: Combining D3 men's and women's championship dilemma

They are afraid of confrontations between teams that are billeted in too close proximity to each other. They don't trust student-athletes to behave as responsible adults. That is also why the require that teams that have lost be whisked off the site so that they don't misbehave after they are eliminated from the tournament.

From experience, there is zero tolerance for any misbehavior at the Training Center. No, I didn't do anything wrong, they do spell it out for you how they have world class athletes training there and to be respectful. If a player becomes unruly then I blame the coaching staff for not having control.