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College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
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Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
That he's known about since at least 2015, and maybe knew about as early as 2009.
That he's known about since at least 2015, and maybe knew about as early as 2009.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
The determining factor will likely be the terms of his contract extension. That contract holds Meyer to a higher standard in terms of his reporting obligations, particularly on issues of this nature. We don't have all of the facts yet, but it looks like he's in serious trouble.
You don't really know the territory. It's a Purple state, leaning Red. Favorite son John Kasich beat Trump in the Republican Primary. Franklin County (Columbus) is solid Blue. There will be political pushback no matter what is decided.
The determining factor will likely be the terms of his contract extension. That contract holds Meyer to a higher standard in terms of his reporting obligations, particularly on issues of this nature. We don't have all of the facts yet, but it looks like he's in serious trouble.
MavHockey14
New member
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
I have always hated OSU and just add this to the list. If Urban keeps his job that is simply disgusting.
I have always hated OSU and just add this to the list. If Urban keeps his job that is simply disgusting.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
Probably why he says he reported it now. Muddies the water enough that he thinks they won't dare fire him for cause.
Probably why he says he reported it now. Muddies the water enough that he thinks they won't dare fire him for cause.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
Huh?
Unless someone deleted a post I’m not sure what you’re referring to?
Huh?
Unless someone deleted a post I’m not sure what you’re referring to?
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
I'm curious about this response.
The OSU case points out an interesting issue about sports, public opinion and employment.
I'll admit I haven't read up much on this matter, but as I understand it one of Urban Meyer's assistants stands accused of committing spousal abuse a few years back. The abused wife says that she told wives of the other coaches, including Meyer's wife. Back in 2015 Meyer was asked about the allegations and said that he didn't know about them. Based upon what the abused spouse has reported, there is now some question about whether Meyer was telling the truth. Are those the basic facts?
We start with this basic premise. Spousal abuse shouldn't be tolerated and anyone who commits such an attack should certainly be prosecuted fully. I see no reason why a period of incarceration shouldn't be served, especially in any repeat cases or cases with significant injuries.
Next is the question of whether the abuser should be fired from his (or I suppose, her) job. I suspect that in the "real world" the only abusers who are fired from their jobs as a result of committing spousal abuse are those who either miss time due to their incarceration, or persons who are in in high profile positions where the employer might be publicly embarrassed by the continuing employment of the abuser. Personally, I don't really have a problem with that. Let the criminal justice system handle it. If the employer wants to fire the employee because of possible embarrassment to the company, I guess they should have that right. But I don't support the idea of just saying that people who commit spousal abuse (or any other crime for that matter) should automatically be fired from a job that is unrelated to the crime.
Arguably this assistant coach fits into the "public image" issue I describe, so I don't have a problem with a University choosing to fire a coach who drives intoxicated or commits spousal abuse or shoplifts or anything else if it brings embarrassment to the University. But where does that leave someone like Meyer, who didn't commit the abuse, but maybe knew about it?
Let's say he did know about it but simply chose to say nothing? Should he be fired from his job? Is that the standard we all want applied to us? I suppose if I'm the University and I find out Meyer actively tried to cover it up or something and his specific actions brought disrepute to the University they can choose to fire him. But shouldn't that just be a University decision? Does the public (other than perhaps OSU alums) really have any say in that other than expressing general hatred for that particular institution?
I'm curious about this response.
The OSU case points out an interesting issue about sports, public opinion and employment.
I'll admit I haven't read up much on this matter, but as I understand it one of Urban Meyer's assistants stands accused of committing spousal abuse a few years back. The abused wife says that she told wives of the other coaches, including Meyer's wife. Back in 2015 Meyer was asked about the allegations and said that he didn't know about them. Based upon what the abused spouse has reported, there is now some question about whether Meyer was telling the truth. Are those the basic facts?
We start with this basic premise. Spousal abuse shouldn't be tolerated and anyone who commits such an attack should certainly be prosecuted fully. I see no reason why a period of incarceration shouldn't be served, especially in any repeat cases or cases with significant injuries.
Next is the question of whether the abuser should be fired from his (or I suppose, her) job. I suspect that in the "real world" the only abusers who are fired from their jobs as a result of committing spousal abuse are those who either miss time due to their incarceration, or persons who are in in high profile positions where the employer might be publicly embarrassed by the continuing employment of the abuser. Personally, I don't really have a problem with that. Let the criminal justice system handle it. If the employer wants to fire the employee because of possible embarrassment to the company, I guess they should have that right. But I don't support the idea of just saying that people who commit spousal abuse (or any other crime for that matter) should automatically be fired from a job that is unrelated to the crime.
Arguably this assistant coach fits into the "public image" issue I describe, so I don't have a problem with a University choosing to fire a coach who drives intoxicated or commits spousal abuse or shoplifts or anything else if it brings embarrassment to the University. But where does that leave someone like Meyer, who didn't commit the abuse, but maybe knew about it?
Let's say he did know about it but simply chose to say nothing? Should he be fired from his job? Is that the standard we all want applied to us? I suppose if I'm the University and I find out Meyer actively tried to cover it up or something and his specific actions brought disrepute to the University they can choose to fire him. But shouldn't that just be a University decision? Does the public (other than perhaps OSU alums) really have any say in that other than expressing general hatred for that particular institution?
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
While those are good questions to ask, I think this falls under what happened at Penn St as what Universities are supposed to report.
In many states, it's required by law that someone like Meyer turn in his assistant for breaking the law. And this exact thing is going on at MSU- did anyone know what Nasser was doing, and were they required to turn him in.
If there's a law in Ohio that requires Meyer to do that, he's in serious trouble. Also, IMHO, the public DOES have a say, since OSU is a public institution, and their funds come from the State of Ohio. So while Meyer may be paid in funds from other sources, he's an employee of a public university, thus is under Ohio government guidelines.
And because it sounds like he knew in 2015, and didn't turn him in, or sanction him, given this is an abuse case- I don't see Meyer keeping his job.
While those are good questions to ask, I think this falls under what happened at Penn St as what Universities are supposed to report.
In many states, it's required by law that someone like Meyer turn in his assistant for breaking the law. And this exact thing is going on at MSU- did anyone know what Nasser was doing, and were they required to turn him in.
If there's a law in Ohio that requires Meyer to do that, he's in serious trouble. Also, IMHO, the public DOES have a say, since OSU is a public institution, and their funds come from the State of Ohio. So while Meyer may be paid in funds from other sources, he's an employee of a public university, thus is under Ohio government guidelines.
And because it sounds like he knew in 2015, and didn't turn him in, or sanction him, given this is an abuse case- I don't see Meyer keeping his job.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
Meyer has admitted he knew in 2015. Meyer was directly asked about it at media day, lied and said he had no knowledge. Meyer is more than likely still lying, and knew as early as 2009 about the abuse while they were coaching together at UF. Smith was fired for this behavior in 2018, once OSU knew it was going to go public. OSU and Meyer were both aware for at least 3 years and did nothing, then fired the guy when they knew it was going to be an issue. They absolutely gaze zero fuchs until it was going to become a PR issue. Wins over human decency.
Meyer has admitted he knew in 2015. Meyer was directly asked about it at media day, lied and said he had no knowledge. Meyer is more than likely still lying, and knew as early as 2009 about the abuse while they were coaching together at UF. Smith was fired for this behavior in 2018, once OSU knew it was going to go public. OSU and Meyer were both aware for at least 3 years and did nothing, then fired the guy when they knew it was going to be an issue. They absolutely gaze zero fuchs until it was going to become a PR issue. Wins over human decency.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
I think the differences between the OSU case and what happened at PSU and MSU is that in the latter instances the abuse or crime was actually connected to the University, either because of where it happened or as part of the abusers official responsibilities. That's not the case at OSU, at least as far as I know.
What if Sandusky or Nasser had just been accused of molesting their grandchildren at the family lake cabin? Certainly they would have gone to prison just the same. But would the sanctions and outrage against the University have been the same? If the University facilitated a cover up, sure I suppose. But in this case Meyer was supposedly told by his wife that she was told by the abused spouse that one of his coaches was engaged in spousal abuse. Did Meyer cover anything up? Did he impede any official investigations? I'm even going to disagree with the idea that Meyer would have been a mandatory reporter of this crime. I don't think so. Maybe decency suggests that he should have intervened to try to protect the abused spouse (I think many of us would have felt compelled to do something), but I don't think legally he is required to.
I think the differences between the OSU case and what happened at PSU and MSU is that in the latter instances the abuse or crime was actually connected to the University, either because of where it happened or as part of the abusers official responsibilities. That's not the case at OSU, at least as far as I know.
What if Sandusky or Nasser had just been accused of molesting their grandchildren at the family lake cabin? Certainly they would have gone to prison just the same. But would the sanctions and outrage against the University have been the same? If the University facilitated a cover up, sure I suppose. But in this case Meyer was supposedly told by his wife that she was told by the abused spouse that one of his coaches was engaged in spousal abuse. Did Meyer cover anything up? Did he impede any official investigations? I'm even going to disagree with the idea that Meyer would have been a mandatory reporter of this crime. I don't think so. Maybe decency suggests that he should have intervened to try to protect the abused spouse (I think many of us would have felt compelled to do something), but I don't think legally he is required to.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
Sure, that makes complete sense. The University and Meyer aren't obligated to fire this guy just because he's committing a criminal act outside the scope of his employment duties. They will usually only do it when it becomes a stain on their own reputation. That's the way it should be.
What if they had fired this guy in 2009? All that means is that Meyer and OSU wouldn't have been "tainted" by their association with a wife abuser. Would it have prevented any further abuse? How so?
Sure, that makes complete sense. The University and Meyer aren't obligated to fire this guy just because he's committing a criminal act outside the scope of his employment duties. They will usually only do it when it becomes a stain on their own reputation. That's the way it should be.
What if they had fired this guy in 2009? All that means is that Meyer and OSU wouldn't have been "tainted" by their association with a wife abuser. Would it have prevented any further abuse? How so?
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
I'm not sure what most of that has to do with anything? The abuse has been reported to the police multiple times since 2009, whether or not Meyer reported it doesn't matter, the wife did. This is about Meyer knowing that one of his coaches was a wife beater for nearly a decade and continuing to employ him, right until he fired him when all of it was about to come out.
I'm not sure what most of that has to do with anything? The abuse has been reported to the police multiple times since 2009, whether or not Meyer reported it doesn't matter, the wife did. This is about Meyer knowing that one of his coaches was a wife beater for nearly a decade and continuing to employ him, right until he fired him when all of it was about to come out.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
Why should he have to fire him? The only reason he "has" to fire him is if he thinks it reflects poorly on him or the University. Are employers required to fire all "wife beaters?"
Why should he have to fire him? The only reason he "has" to fire him is if he thinks it reflects poorly on him or the University. Are employers required to fire all "wife beaters?"
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
We will be finding out whether it is mandatory to report crimes or not. Any more, I don't think it's really up to your opinion- most states have decided that people in certain positions are required to report it.
Whether you agree with that or not may be a moot point.
And lets not equate a significant policy violation vs. a crime here, the worst think that will happen to Meyer is that he looses his job. He's not going to jail.
It's also interesting that Meyer being quiet about spousal abuse flies in the face of what he tells his athletes- to not hit women.
We will be finding out whether it is mandatory to report crimes or not. Any more, I don't think it's really up to your opinion- most states have decided that people in certain positions are required to report it.
Whether you agree with that or not may be a moot point.
And lets not equate a significant policy violation vs. a crime here, the worst think that will happen to Meyer is that he looses his job. He's not going to jail.
It's also interesting that Meyer being quiet about spousal abuse flies in the face of what he tells his athletes- to not hit women.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
Yes- this is OSU's official policy https://hr.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/policy705.pdf
Where the consequence is
And there's also this https://hr.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/policy115.pdf
where
(the highlight is mine)
Since that falls under the sexual assault policy, this applies to everyone, except a handful with specific reasons (mostly clergy or specialized doctors):
There's a lot more there, but it seems to me that if Meyer knew in 2015, and did nothing, he's in big trouble.
Yes- this is OSU's official policy https://hr.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/policy705.pdf
Where the consequence is
And there's also this https://hr.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/policy115.pdf
where
(the highlight is mine)
Since that falls under the sexual assault policy, this applies to everyone, except a handful with specific reasons (mostly clergy or specialized doctors):
There's a lot more there, but it seems to me that if Meyer knew in 2015, and did nothing, he's in big trouble.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
It has nothing to do with my opinion. I suspect Ohio is pretty much like every other state. Certain people who hold certain positions must report abuse of minors or adults who are considered "vulnerable", such as the elderly. The state may also require doctors or health workers to do certain things if they suspect domestic violence involving one of their patients. But there is no general employer responsibility to report any of their employees who they know or suspect are involved in domestic violence, either as a perpetrator or victim.
The purpose of my posts here today has been solely to suggest that you put yourself into the position of employer or supervisor who learns or suspects that an employee is committing domestic violence. Should you be fired or punished if you yourself don't fire or punish that perpetrator?
It has nothing to do with my opinion. I suspect Ohio is pretty much like every other state. Certain people who hold certain positions must report abuse of minors or adults who are considered "vulnerable", such as the elderly. The state may also require doctors or health workers to do certain things if they suspect domestic violence involving one of their patients. But there is no general employer responsibility to report any of their employees who they know or suspect are involved in domestic violence, either as a perpetrator or victim.
The purpose of my posts here today has been solely to suggest that you put yourself into the position of employer or supervisor who learns or suspects that an employee is committing domestic violence. Should you be fired or punished if you yourself don't fire or punish that perpetrator?
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
Funny that your opinion doesn't matter a few posts later when you said you didn't think people should need to report that. Was that a factual based on Ohio law or your opinion?
BTW, you should read OSU's policies. It's pretty clear that he has to report it. So it's not even a state thing. Again, the worst that can happen to Meyer is that he will be fired. Big deal. Minor in the face of being choked and hit by your spouse.
Funny that your opinion doesn't matter a few posts later when you said you didn't think people should need to report that. Was that a factual based on Ohio law or your opinion?
BTW, you should read OSU's policies. It's pretty clear that he has to report it. So it's not even a state thing. Again, the worst that can happen to Meyer is that he will be fired. Big deal. Minor in the face of being choked and hit by your spouse.
Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!
Buy you are equating what the law requires with what OSU (the employer) may require.
I am absolutely correct in stating that nothing in the law requires Meyer to report this. If you can find something in Ohio law to the contrary, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
As I said in my prior posts, employers can adopt policies or positions, or make decisions to fire employees who engage in bad behavior outside the workplace if they think it puts them in a bad light. That's the whole point of the OSU policies. They adopt those policies so that if they think the behavior of the assistant coach wife abuser, or the head coach who knows about but says nothing, brings shame to the University, they can fire that coach and then defend the breach of contract or other claim by say, "we had a policy." But the University can just as easily decide it doesn't want to fire the coach, and there is nothing that can be done about it.
Buy you are equating what the law requires with what OSU (the employer) may require.
I am absolutely correct in stating that nothing in the law requires Meyer to report this. If you can find something in Ohio law to the contrary, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
As I said in my prior posts, employers can adopt policies or positions, or make decisions to fire employees who engage in bad behavior outside the workplace if they think it puts them in a bad light. That's the whole point of the OSU policies. They adopt those policies so that if they think the behavior of the assistant coach wife abuser, or the head coach who knows about but says nothing, brings shame to the University, they can fire that coach and then defend the breach of contract or other claim by say, "we had a policy." But the University can just as easily decide it doesn't want to fire the coach, and there is nothing that can be done about it.
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