Christ is Risen!

[Bob Gray]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Saved from it or saved by it?

It seems to me that the Son of God actually visited us in the flesh twice, once in Bethlehem / Jerusalem about 2,000 years ago, and also 500 years earlier than that, in India as well. Following the latter also leads one to the Divine. Jesus himself never claimed to be the "only" Son of God, that was added later by his followers.

and isn't it seeking the Divine what matters most?


PS thank you for the prayers. I need them. Any help one can get to become a better person is needed and appreciated.

I'm pretty sure he meant to say saved by it.

Actually in John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That's a pretty exclusive claim and something he himself said (assuming one believes what the Bible says of course, which is a different discussion), not something that came from his followers later. There are other similar things in the Bible, but that one is the first that comes to mind.

 

[MavHockey14]

I'm pretty sure he meant to say saved by it.

Actually in John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That's a pretty exclusive claim and something he himself said (assuming one believes what the Bible says of course, which is a different discussion), not something that came from his followers later. There are other similar things in the Bible, but that one is the first that comes to mind.

Correct.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Christ is Risen!

I'm pretty sure he meant to say saved by it.

Actually in John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That's a pretty exclusive claim and something he himself said (assuming one believes what the Bible says of course, which is a different discussion), not something that came from his followers later. There are other similar things in the Bible, but that one is the first that comes to mind.

Sometimes, I wonder how many times wording has changed by either translation or a ruler's use of divine right.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

I'm pretty sure he meant to say saved by it.

Actually in John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That's a pretty exclusive claim and something he himself said (assuming one believes what the Bible says of course, which is a different discussion), not something that came from his followers later. There are other similar things in the Bible, but that one is the first that comes to mind.

How cute, to actually think it matters what a religious figure said.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Vy917bEM6zs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Sometimes, I wonder how many times wording has changed by either translation or a ruler's use of divine right.

Certainly translation is an inexact science, sometimes more inexact, sometimes less. Thankfully there are a lot of tools to help delve back into the Greek in which the early manuscripts were written, and there are a ton of manuscripts that go back fairly close to the time of Christ, the Dead Sea Scrolls probably being the most famous.

Not sure what you're referring to about the ruler's use of divine right.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Not sure what you're referring to about the ruler's use of divine right.

Basically, someone will take the scriptures and change them in such a way that it fit their agenda. Obviously that was pretty difficult in the Middle Ages, but I would not have put it past Constantine or another one of the Holy Roman Emperors to do that. After all, would any of the first Christians had called for torturing or burning people that didn't follow their way of life?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Basically, someone will take the scriptures and change them in such a way that it fit their agenda. Obviously that was pretty difficult in the Middle Ages, but I would not have put it past Constantine or another one of the Holy Roman Emperors to do that. After all, would any of the first Christians had called for torturing or burning people that didn't follow their way of life?

That's why it's so important that there is a large body of manuscripts that trace back well before Constantine or other rulers who at least claimed to be Christian and might manipulate things for their own purposes. The early manuscripts date back to when Christianity wasn't in any way institutionalized, but rather was a persecuted sect that the Roman Empire would have like to see disappear.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Christ is Risen!

That's why it's so important that there is a large body of manuscripts that trace back well before Constantine or other rulers who at least claimed to be Christian and might manipulate things for their own purposes. The early manuscripts date back to when Christianity wasn't in any way institutionalized, but rather was a persecuted sect that the Roman Empire would have like to see disappear.

Then why are we still using the King James accepted version, and not what these scrolls are translating to?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Then why are we still using the King James accepted version, and not what these scrolls are translating to?

Most people don't use the King James version anymore. There are a lot of newer translations that make use of the many additional manuscripts that have been discovered since the King James version came out, in 1611. The scrolls, while very significant, are only one of many thousands of manuscripts now available to translators.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Actually in John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That's a pretty exclusive claim and something he himself said (assuming one believes what the Bible says of course, which is a different discussion), not something that came from his followers later. There are other similar things in the Bible, but that one is the first that comes to mind.

My memory isn't as reliable as it once was...wasn't John written around AD 100? If so then it is unlikely that John himself heard the words first-hand, they must have been passed on through an oral tradition.

Hey, let's not get too worked up about it, if anything it makes a good story that God incarnated Herself in human form in 500 BC and came back again in 4 BC and incarnated Himself in human form a second time. That would suggest S/He was incarnated as a complete human being overall, not just one gender.


It wouldn't surprise me in the least that the image on the Shroud of Turin image was formed when Jesus' soul re-entered his dead body and re-animated it. and if someone says I believe in both Jesus and the Buddha, what is the problem with that?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Christ is Risen!

My memory isn't as reliable as it once was...wasn't John written around AD 100? If so then it is unlikely that John himself heard the words first-hand, they must have been passed on through an oral tradition.

Hey, let's not get too worked up about it, if anything it makes a good story that God incarnated Herself in human form in 500 BC and came back again in 4 BC and incarnated Himself in human form a second time. That would suggest S/He was incarnated as a complete human being overall, not just one gender.


It wouldn't surprise me in the least that the image on the Shroud of Turin image was formed when Jesus' soul re-entered his dead body and re-animated it. and if someone says I believe in both Jesus and the Buddha, what is the problem with that?

Nobody is getting worked up, at least on this end.

People generally date the book of John from 50-100 AD. It's generally believed that John was around after most if not all the other disciples were martyred, so it's entirely plausible that he was around in the mid to late part of the first century. If he was born in, say, 10 A.D., he'd be 90 at 100 A.D., the furthest out date in the range people talk about the book of John being written, though I'd tend to think it was at least a bit earlier than that.

Just saying. If one believes what the Bible says and specifically what Jesus says in the Bible, he makes it quite clear that he's not just one of a menu of ways to get saved/go to heaven/whatever term one uses. His claim of exclusivity is pretty clear. People are of course free to believe any religious construct they choose to, but if they claim to believe in Jesus, it's reasonable to see if their construct is at least in the ballpark of how Jesus is shown in the Bible.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Just saying. If one believes what the Bible says and specifically what Jesus says in the Bible, he makes it quite clear that he's not just one of a menu of ways to get saved/go to heaven/whatever term one uses. His claim of exclusivity is pretty clear. People are of course free to believe any religious construct they choose to, but if they claim to believe in Jesus, it's reasonable to see if their construct is at least in the ballpark of how Jesus is shown in the Bible.

Many Christians use this concept to judge others and assume people with different faiths are going to hell. IMO they are mis using the Bible so to give themselves some superior feeling that they're 'right'. The Bible is written to be personal. The lessons it gives on how you the reader are to behave and only you. In addressing others, the Bible is clear...treat others positively via the golden rule. Period. You are not given the license to judge others in anyway. That includes determining for others that they are going to hell as use. Your options for treating others are clearly stated and only positive/supportive...if you are to follow Christ.

Many self professed Christians are quite aways from Christ.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Many Christians use this concept to judge others and assume people with different faiths are going to hell. IMO they are mis using the Bible so to give themselves some superior feeling that they're 'right'. The Bible is written to be personal. The lessons it gives on how you the reader are to behave and only you. In addressing others, the Bible is clear...treat others positively via the golden rule. Period. You are not given the license to judge others in anyway. That includes determining for others that they are going to hell as use. Your options for treating others are clearly stated and only positive/supportive...if you are to follow Christ.

Many self professed Christians are quite aways from Christ.

Just about every one of the world's Great Religions has the same theme:

Be honest, faithful, and true, don't take things that don't belong to you, treat everyone with kindness and respect. 90% of all of them, say, are in complete agreement with each other. Some of them even share some of the same texts!

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Many Christians use this concept to judge others and assume people with different faiths are going to hell. IMO they are mis using the Bible so to give themselves some superior feeling that they're 'right'. The Bible is written to be personal. The lessons it gives on how you the reader are to behave and only you. In addressing others, the Bible is clear...treat others positively via the golden rule. Period. You are not given the license to judge others in anyway. That includes determining for others that they are going to hell as use. Your options for treating others are clearly stated and only positive/supportive...if you are to follow Christ.

Many self professed Christians are quite aways from Christ.

I'm not pushing a concept or laying down judgment, just referencing what is clearly said. I know it's uncomfortable at times to accept what is said in the Bible, but it's not intellectually honest to refashion it to say what we wish it said. There are a fair amount of gray areas where the Bible isn't so clear on certain subjects and reasonable people can and do differ in how certain things are understood. I really don't see the verse I reference and other supporting verses. "no one comes to the father except by me" is again a pretty clear statement of exclusivity. And there's nowhere I'm aware of in the Bible where Jesus says that he's just one of a menu of options.

I do agree that people can use this or many other things to judge and mistreat others, and I don't condone that at all. But there's also something to be said for being honest with someone as to what the Bible says to the best of our knowledge and understanding, even if it's not always what someone else wants to hear. If that's done in a loving and respectable way, there really shouldn't be a problem. I think that being honest in a loving way with people is being positive/supportive. That is doing unto others as I'd have them do unto me.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Interesting how many different religions use the metaphor of The Way:

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light."

"The Way that can be spoke of
Is not the Constant Way."

 

[Scarlet]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Bumping this for a couple of reasons....

1. Today is Good Friday for Orthodox Christians.
2. I wanted to share this column by Rita Wilson, Tom Hanks' wife, who is Greek Orthodox like me. It's a pretty cool explanation on Easter, Great Lent, fasting, Holy Week, etc. In my opinion she gets a few things wrong...well, wrong may be too strong of a word. Tomorrow's service is not a Mass, it's a Liturgy. We don't have Mass. I hate when Greeks call it that. And we do not "give up" things for Lent, we fast. There's a difference. But other than that, it's pretty spot on and will give you an idea of what Easter is like for folks like me. Also check out the comments as they add some good feedback.

Kali Anastasi! I'll be in church all weekend.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Bumping this for a couple of reasons....

1. Today is Good Friday for Orthodox Christians.
2. I wanted to share this column by Rita Wilson, Tom Hanks' wife, who is Greek Orthodox like me. It's a pretty cool explanation on Easter, Great Lent, fasting, Holy Week, etc. In my opinion she gets a few things wrong...well, wrong may be too strong of a word. Tomorrow's service is not a Mass, it's a Liturgy. We don't have Mass. I hate when Greeks call it that. And we do not "give up" things for Lent, we fast. There's a difference. But other than that, it's pretty spot on and will give you an idea of what Easter is like for folks like me. Also check out the comments as they add some good feedback.

Kali Anastasi! I'll be in church all weekend.

Very interesting, have a joyous Easter season.

 

[joecct]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Bumping this for a couple of reasons....

1. Today is Good Friday for Orthodox Christians.
2. I wanted to share this column by Rita Wilson, Tom Hanks' wife, who is Greek Orthodox like me. It's a pretty cool explanation on Easter, Great Lent, fasting, Holy Week, etc. In my opinion she gets a few things wrong...well, wrong may be too strong of a word. Tomorrow's service is not a Mass, it's a Liturgy. We don't have Mass. I hate when Greeks call it that. And we do not "give up" things for Lent, we fast. There's a difference. But other than that, it's pretty spot on and will give you an idea of what Easter is like for folks like me. Also check out the comments as they add some good feedback.

Kali Anastasi! I'll be in church all weekend.

Meanwhile, the two Orthodox bishops kidnapped over in the Middle East (missed that one in the MSM) are still in captivity. My prayers for their safe recovery.

IIRC, Eastern Rite Liturgies are a lot longer compared to Western Rite. And, do you stand for the entire time?

 

[leswp1]

Re: Christ is Risen!

He is Risen! He is Risen Indeed!!

Happy Easter everyone!!

 

[A Shot and a Goal]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Tetelestai.