Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

It would be kinda hard to skate in a pool but we can try it.

They tried it in 1996 in Cincinnati and it didn't work out so well.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

The only reason baseball has the two of three is because if it was single elimination, you'd never have to have more than one starting pitcher. Since baseball is the only major sport where the defense controls the ball, the pitcher has more of a direct impact on the outcome of the game than an official or goalie can.

 

[WiscDC]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

Well, actually, if he is being sincere then I can somewhat understand the point. Hockey is probably the one sport where the "better" team doesn't win the highest percentage of the time, simply because of the nature of the game. On the other hand, that's one of the things that makes it so exciting, because every score is magnified since there are relatively so few (especially when Lowell is playing ). But, realistically, how are you going to manage the logistics? You can't get people to go to ONE game, how are you going to get them to stay in a location (and spend multiple nights and mucho $ on a hotel) for an extended period? When all is said and done, this isn't the World Series and it's not the NBA Finals. Leave it single-elimination. I WOULD be in favor of going back to a "super-regional" (two locations, six teams at each), but that has already been discussed on the "attendance" thread.

What? When you say a team is better than another, it means they are better at winning games in this sport than another. So yes, the better team wins more often. Whatever a team does, it all boils down to scoring more than the other team. Some days, different teams are better than others. That's the case in all these team sports we love to watch. It's just the way it is. It's also why we don't see one undefeated and one winless team every year. But the better team wins more often, because the better team plays the better game more often, by definition.

 

[satyking]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

We skated in a pool back in Cincinnati and it was messy

It would be kinda hard to skate in a pool but we can try it.

 

[BobF]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

Well, actually, if he is being sincere then I can somewhat understand the point. Hockey is probably the one sport where the "better" team doesn't win the highest percentage of the time, simply because of the nature of the game.

If the better team does not win the majority of the time does that mean Northeastern should be playing American International in the frozen four? Because clearly they must have been the better teams since they did not win the highest % of the time? Yikes think you need to rethink that one!

One and done works perfectly fine. Bad bounce, ref call? No hot goalie or team fails to show up. Hoops is the example of last second loss or bad calls more so and based on the $ that tourney makes. Besides as much as I love the game 3 games in Pittsburgh is enough.

 

[Back2BackU-MnPride2002]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

If the better team does not win the majority of the time does that mean Northeastern should be playing American International in the frozen four? Because clearly they must have been the better teams since they did not win the highest % of the time? Yikes think you need to rethink that one!

One and done works perfectly fine. Bad bounce, ref call? No hot goalie or team fails to show up. Hoops is the example of last second loss or bad calls more so and based on the $ that tourney makes. Besides as much as I love the game 3 games in Pittsburgh is enough.

Dude? Seriously? Go back and read what he wrote and try to think about it, try to figure out what he was trying to say, I can't believe that you got what you got out of his post. WOW. I'd try to explain it to you, but I fear it might just be a waste of time.



And as a fan of a team who has lost to Holy Cross and Yale in the last few years, in the first round, a part of me wants to entertain the idea of some sort of pool or multiple game thing, because a part of me would love it if the best team always won the Title. But the larger part of me has to say that I'm fine with the current single elimination format.

 

[BobF]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

Dude? Seriously? Go back and read what he wrote and try to think about it, try to figure out what he was trying to say, I can't believe that you got what you got out of his post. WOW. I'd try to explain it to you, but I fear it might just be a waste of time.



And as a fan of a team who has lost to Holy Cross and Yale in the last few years, in the first round, a part of me wants to entertain the idea of some sort of pool or multiple game thing, because a part of me would love it if the best team always won the Title. But the larger part of me has to say that I'm fine with the current single elimination format.

Dude "seriously" I was just trying to make fun of what is a ridiculous premise to begin with! But thanks for the "dude, seriously" reference, made my April FOOLS day much more entertaining!

 

[DisplacedCornellian]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

It would be kinda hard to skate in a pool but we can try it.

Just ask Sean Backman.

 

[GB Puck Fan]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

I second this.

I third this.

 

[UMICH]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

Very ironic that "skating in a pool" is the off-topic in this thread. Apparently the NHL likes that idea...

http://www.foxsportswest.com/story/...g-to-dodger-stadiu?blockID=889591&feedID=3707

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

The only reason baseball has the two of three is because if it was single elimination, you'd never have to have more than one starting pitcher.

So? You don't need more than one starting shortstop, either. =)


Powers &8^]

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

a part of me wants to entertain the idea of some sort of pool or multiple game thing, because a part of me would love it if the best team always won the Title.

If you're determining who the "best team" is before the tournament games are even played, then why play the tournament at all? Just give the trophy to the #1 team in the PWR and be done with it.


Powers &8^]

 

[chickod]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

But the better team wins more often, because the better team plays the better game more often, by definition.

Yes, MORE OFTEN. But what I said was the better team's winning percentage is lower in hockey than in any other sport, which is why in a "one and done" tournament you get so many upsets. A goalie stands on his head, you get one or two lucky bounces and all of the sudden the "better" team loses. Were the Bruins "better" than Vancouver in 2011? Not if you look at the regular season records (which is my point - over the long term Vancouver was better), but because Tim Thomas stood on his head and a couple of Bruins stepped up (Seguin, Marchand) they won the series. And I'm not saying this is "bad." This all came about because of the discussion of creating a tournament where you have a "best of" scenario, and I was saying that one of the things that makes the one and done exciting is because there tend to be more upsets in hockey than in other sports due to the nature of the game. Just look at the Frozen Four. Is the basketball Final Four comparable? I don't think Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan or Duke are teams that you wouldn't expect to be there. Can we say the same for Yale, Quinnipiac, Lowell or St. Cloud State (NONE of which have ever won the title)???

 

[WiscDC]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

Yes, MORE OFTEN. But what I said was the better team's winning percentage is lower in hockey than in any other sport, which is why in a "one and done" tournament you get so many upsets. A goalie stands on his head, you get one or two lucky bounces and all of the sudden the "better" team loses. Were the Bruins "better" than Vancouver in 2011? Not if you look at the regular season records (which is my point - over the long term Vancouver was better), but because Tim Thomas stood on his head and a couple of Bruins stepped up (Seguin, Marchand) they won the series. And I'm not saying this is "bad." This all came about because of the discussion of creating a tournament where you have a "best of" scenario, and I was saying that one of the things that makes the one and done exciting is because there tend to be more upsets in hockey than in other sports due to the nature of the game. Just look at the Frozen Four. Is the basketball Final Four comparable? I don't think Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan or Duke are teams that you wouldn't expect to be there. Can we say the same for Yale, Quinnipiac, Lowell or St. Cloud State (NONE of which have ever won the title)???

What you said about upsets in a tournament vs regular season records is the reality that the way we decide "champions" in our sports isn't the best, but it sure is profitable. The only exception is conference tournaments in college sports (besides football championship games), when we have a "[League name] Champion" and a "[League name] Tournament Champion." That is what it is, and it applies to every sport, really. Basketball a little less so, but that's just the nature of the game. (Think about when someone says a player "took over the game.") With 16 teams in the Stanley Cup Playoffs, I wouldn't expect the overall best team to have a greater-than-even chance at winning the Stanley Cup at all. I think we're in agreement with that.

I think the basketball Final Four is comparable. Quinnipiac and UMass-Lowell were two of the very best teams, if not the two best teams. They were definitely two of the top 4 teams this season. They were consistently the best throughout the season, and they made their way to the semifinals of the national tournament. Their histories have nothing to do with judging how good they were throughout the 2012-13 season. In basketball, Duke was not in the Final Four, but Wichita State was. Last year, Kentucky was the consensus pick to win the basketball title, and they did, just like Boston College in hockey.

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

This weekend's results are exactly what is so great about a single elimination tournament. My team lost, too, but this tournament is the ****. Anyone who doesn't think this tournament is entertaining is nuts.

I quadruple this.
I've seen 3 of these teams play, and seen SCSU on the tube. They're all the real deal and very deserving of their FF appearance's.
Going to be some GREAT hockey to watch this Thursday and Saturday.

 

[TimP]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

If you're determining who the "best team" is before the tournament games are even played, then why play the tournament at all? Just give the trophy to the #1 team in the PWR and be done with it.


Powers &8^]

So we can see Miami continue to choke!

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

Yes, MORE OFTEN. But what I said was the better team's winning percentage is lower in hockey than in any other sport, which is why in a "one and done" tournament you get so many upsets. A goalie stands on his head, you get one or two lucky bounces and all of the sudden the "better" team loses. Were the Bruins "better" than Vancouver in 2011? Not if you look at the regular season records (which is my point - over the long term Vancouver was better), but because Tim Thomas stood on his head and a couple of Bruins stepped up (Seguin, Marchand) they won the series. And I'm not saying this is "bad." This all came about because of the discussion of creating a tournament where you have a "best of" scenario, and I was saying that one of the things that makes the one and done exciting is because there tend to be more upsets in hockey than in other sports due to the nature of the game. Just look at the Frozen Four. Is the basketball Final Four comparable? I don't think Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan or Duke are teams that you wouldn't expect to be there. Can we say the same for Yale, Quinnipiac, Lowell or St. Cloud State (NONE of which have ever won the title)???

The Bruins won because Vancouver didn't understand that they were playing in the Stanley Cup finals, not a meaningless regular season game in the middle of January. The best players are supposed to play their best at the most important time. Vancouver's didn't, Boston's did. Same thing in the last couple of weeks. I watch Minny quite a bit this season. At times they looked like no one could touch them. But they lost, and to the last team in. North Dakota, the same thing. World beaters against the likes of Bemidji and Minnesota State in January, not so much when it really matters. Maybe this is a western thing where people don't get out much in the real (hockey) world.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

The Bruins won because Vancouver didn't understand that they were playing in the Stanley Cup finals, not a meaningless regular season game in the middle of January. The best players are supposed to play their best at the most important time. Vancouver's didn't, Boston's did. Same thing in the last couple of weeks. I watch Minny quite a bit this season. At times they looked like no one could touch them. But they lost, and to the last team in. North Dakota, the same thing. World beaters against the likes of Bemidji and Minnesota State in January, not so much when it really matters. Maybe this is a western thing where people don't get out much in the real (hockey) world.

Totally agree. If you know it is win or your season is over, and you don't come out and win, then you don't deserve to move on. Simple as that.

 

[Jim]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

I'm not sure that hockey can work like baseball...Round 1 is double elimination, then the Super Regional is best 2 of 3. It is just too many games in my view. The Olympics play in pools but that lasts a couple of weeks. That might be an alternative if you played 4 4-team pools or 2 8 team pools then took the 4 teams with the best records/most points and moved them on tot he Frozen Four, but I'm not sure the results would be any better, and the games would lose a great deal for the most part. And it might not be enough games to really determine a champ. You could end up with lots of 2-2 teams, or a couple of 1-1-2 teams. And an 8 team pool, which would give better basis for moving teams forward, would just take too long.You'd need at least 2 weeks to play 7 games. In the current system, every game, every shift is meaningful. You mess one up and that could be the end of the line. Just ask Minnesota.

 

[UMICH]

Re: Change NCAA's to a Pool Style Tourney

So we can see Miami continue to choke!

+1, I love it when non-Michigan fans rip those frauds from Miami!