Cars

[brookyone]

Re: Cars

Cosmetics are one thing, when I say take care of a car I mean oil changes, scheduled maintenance etc. My 06 GMC is a pig pen but its been maintained mechanically. Sorry to hear about your Mustangs, that must of sucked but on the other hand they helped you out when you needed it. My 67 is a hardtop, factory 390, 4 speed, 9in locker. It was pretty rough but mechanically its all done, the body has been started but prep and paint are expensive!!!!

Your mistaken to think that car care doesn't also mean the attention to scheduled maintenance to me. Oil changes every 3000 miles with Mobil 1, Cooling system gets flushed every other fall. Rear ends always get full synthetic fluids changed at approx. 30,000 mile intervals. Used to be this was not recommended until 100,000 miles but that was mainly for fear of leaks after cracking, then resealing the pumpkin. That's no longer necessary as you can completely flush out old gear lube and refill without removing the cover...so I do it more frequently. Hobby cars...any car that sits for longer periods can have condensation occur in the rear end and basically your gear lube can be contaminated with water...hence the more frequent fluid changes. Transmission fluid / filters every 30,000 for autos. Manuals get synthetic every 50,000 or so. Pretty much I go with severe duty schedule on everything. Check the brakes every time tires are rotated...every other oil change. Air filters inspected regularly and replaced...car's gotta breath. De-carbon the throttle body every other oil change...makes a huge difference in performance. Plugs, wires etc. Check tire inflation weekly. That's not everything I see to regularly...but quite a bit of it.

Not the big repair bills that I'm afraid of. Well, I am actually afraid of them but I do purchase service contracts for most vehicles, so only deductibles worry me. They are not a waste of money or scam as someone stated...as long as you buy one from reputable companies that honor them. There are shysters out there for sure. Dealerships will have a thorough knowledge of contract companies that don't honor contract provisions. If you buy one from the auto manufacturers, the provisions list very specifically each component the contract covers, and they'll honor the contract for any covered component. I part with the cars because and when I've had my fun with them and something else catches my eye. That's the only reason. I'd certainly like to be able to keep them all. That's not possible.

Yes, the resto hobby is an expensive one. They usually take longer than initially planned. I've done the entire interior in the Fox body Stang I'm working on. It's straight as an arrow and not a spec of rust so I put new carpet in. repainted all the interior panels, all upholstery is new. Door panels, new seat belts...all to original condition. That's one of the best things when it comes to Mustangs. Their popularity means you can still get virtually every part you could ever need for a restoration. Huge quality repro aftermarket and large number of original equipment parts still available. Paint is next for me too. About six grand for a good quality repaint. No body work...sheet metal is perfect without one ding. The paint is heavily chipped and oxidized though. Not building a show car but as close to factory new condition I can get...it'll be a driver. After paint...new convertible top, motor and hardware. New weatherstripping throughout.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Cars

About the only thing to be said for any sort of extended coverage would be if you have a vehicle that's known to have a significant incidence of catastrophic issues over and above normal wear and tear, then maybe some insurance against that would be justifiable.

Service contracts don't cover wear items. The purpose is to cover major components. Some more expensive "Cadillac" coverage contracts cover nearly everything. It's most definitely not guaranteed to be more financially sound to forgo buying one when a covered repair could be three grand or more out of pocket if you don't have one vs. the cost of the contract. They're like any insurance. Your betting you use it if you buy it, the company is betting you don't. Trust me, expensive mechanical repairs are not uncommon...even if few here have had the misfortune of needing a major car repair.

 

[walrus]

Re: Cars

Your mistaken to think that car care doesn't also mean the attention to scheduled maintenance to me. Oil changes every 3000 miles with Mobil 1, Cooling system gets flushed every other fall. Rear ends always get full synthetic fluids changed at approx. 30,000 mile intervals. Used to be this was not recommended until 100,000 miles but that was mainly for fear of leaks after cracking, then resealing the pumpkin. That's no longer necessary as you can completely flush out old gear lube and refill without removing the cover...so I do it more frequently.

I think you're wasting your money doing these things if you are going to trade when it hits 50,000 or so. You treat your cars like you are going to keep them to 200,000. I'll bet I could take most any new car, drive it 50,000 without ever doing anything but put gas in it and keeping the oil full. I wouldn't do that but...

Playing with hobby cars is generally a money pit, you have to like it. Unless you find the right cars you're generally going to have more in them then they are worth. I think drivers are the only way to go. Build it stock or the way you want but enjoy it on the road once you are done.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Cars

Service contracts don't cover wear items. The purpose is to cover major components. Some more expensive "Cadillac" coverage contracts cover nearly everything. It's most definitely not guaranteed to be more financially sound to forgo buying one when a covered repair could be three grand or more out of pocket if you don't have one vs. the cost of the contract. They're like any insurance. Your betting you use it if you buy it, the company is betting you don't.

The company isn't betting that you don't. They're betting that in aggregate, they spend less on repairs than they take in on premiums.

If the probability of major failures is near zero or near one, then the way that they get to that point is either a) charging you for something you're not going to use or b) charging you more than it would cost you to finance the repairs yourself. It's the middle ground where it's more unpredictable that it may make sense for you to go to the company for insurance.

If I have a repair that would cost $3k, then it'll be time to think about getting a new car.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Cars

If I have a repair that would cost $3k, then it'll be time to think about getting a new car.

I find it funny that people say that.

Like my Miata, for instance. Lets go on that theoretical engine failure. yes, i could easily find a powertrain from a junk yard, but for the sake of a point...

I bet a dealer would charge me somewhere around $3k for the work. And my car, in it's current state is worth $2-3k. This after making payments that ended 6 years ago.

Since cars are not investments in value, but more investments in transportation, what is wrong in putting $3k into a car? Whatever the value? If that buys me even two more years of driving, that's somewhere around $4k in monthy payments for a new car that I won't do. And if it get's me 5-6 years that the rest of the car will get me, that's an entire new car that I don't need to buy.

Assuming the rest of the car is in good shape, there's nothing wrong with putting money in it.

I know I *want* a new car, but i also think that I would save a lot of money in the long run by even putting expensive repairs into a decent car- that I already own.

For brookyone- if you would rather give your money to OEM's instead of taking advantage of your investment in reliability- it's your money. But you sure treat cars as if they've not made any improvements in reliability since 1950 or so.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Cars

By "a new car", I mean a "new to me" car, not a "newly driven" car. Most likely, I'm not going to take on payments, I'm going to be writing someone a check. It might be, say, $3k to fix it vs. $6k to $10k for a decent used car.

The big question isn't so much cost to repair vs. value, as you also pointed out. It's whether there's going to be something else in the next five years that also costs $3k to fix. Or whether there will be more frequent $500 to $1000 fixes.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Cars

Whats all this talk about paying someone else to fix it? Fix the **** thing yourself and save a **** ton of money. You can get an engine swap done in a weekend, or if you want to rebuild the current one and save some money (maybe give it a couple more ponies ) it would only take about a week, as long as you can get parts.

 

[MattS]

Re: Cars

Playing with hobby cars is generally a money pit, you have to like it. Unless you find the right cars you're generally going to have more in them then they are worth. I think drivers are the only way to go. Build it stock or the way you want but enjoy it on the road once you are done.

This is generally true. The problem most people have is that they buy a "hobby" car and try to make them into show cars. Most of the money put into them is a waste for a money investment. My brother and I buy, restore, and sell cars quite frequently and almost always make some money on them and have never done worse than break even. The big thing is to know how far to go when fixing them up. There are a ton of people out there that want to drive a classic/antique car but either don't have the expertise or time to fix up one, but they are more than willing to part with some cash to have someone else do it. Especially in motors. People are more than willing to let someone else build up special motors for them. I can't quite figure out why, (I would just buy a crate motor if I was them), but they do.

A couple of examples of how cars can be an investment or a money pit is: My '67 GTO I have probably $20k into it, but I could sell it at a very good profit if I wanted to as it has a quite rare engine/tranny/interior combo. On the other hand my '79 Camaro has about $15k in it and I doubt I could get $10k for it in the best of times (no recession).

 

[brookyone]

Re: Cars

I think you're wasting your money doing these things if you are going to trade when it hits 50,000 or so. You treat your cars like you are going to keep them to 200,000. I'll bet I could take most any new car, drive it 50,000 without ever doing anything but put gas in it and keeping the oil full. I wouldn't do that but...

Don't trade the cars. i sell them privately. It's a pain but in the end you get more out of it than you ever would trading. The pain is sifting through the couple hundred clowns and kids who aren't remotely serious buyer prospects or those that think you're desperate and make ridiculous offers. The same every time until finally a real buyer comes along and makes a fair offer. Can't tell you how much time I've wasted when some kid (remember they're Mustangs) called or stopped to look at the car...never intending to buy the car or having the means but wanting to talk about the car for hours. It's a lot of time. Either way I don't see it as a waste of money to care for them to this extreme. You don't get all your money back upon selling obviously, but the serious buyer will pay a premium over bluebook seeing the excellent condition of the car. You usually end up selling to another car nut who is just as fanatical and appreciates the obvious care of the car. I've managed to sell Mustangs with a book value of three to four grand for twelve to fourteen grand due to their condition...getting some of expenditures back.

I treat my cars well regardless of my intentions per when I eventually sell them. I really never have any real intentions on that front. There just comes a day when I decide I've had my fun, time for something else. Like to keep 'em but no place to put that many cars. Like I said...it's a hobby that I get much enjoyment from. Time spent polishing an exterior is my method for stress relief. Turning a factory paint job into a finish that shines like a mirror is good for my head after crappy days at work. Just like the day trip rides I take with no destination. Those rides are what has become a little tougher over the last several years with the cost of fuel. You'll probably consider those unnecessary fuel costs a waste of money also.

Playing with hobby cars is generally a money pit, you have to like it. Unless you find the right cars you're generally going to have more in them then they are worth. I think drivers are the only way to go. Build it stock or the way you want but enjoy it on the road once you are done.

Won't argue with the money pit assessment. Some of the cars in that collection I had were desirable to collectors, somewhat rare with very low actual mileage in showroom condition as 15 to 20 year old cars that I had for quite awhile. I did alright on those selling them for quite a bit more than I paid for them.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Cars

Whats all this talk about paying someone else to fix it? Fix the **** thing yourself and save a **** ton of money.

Quite honestly, my time is more valuable to me than what I pay a mechanic in labor. Plus, he's got a bunch of tools that I don't have—I knew this before, and working on our race car has only reinforced that. We've torn the engine down and built it back up, then replaced the head, so I have some comfort with doing all of those things, and yet I'd still take my car to the shop to get similar work done.

 

[walrus]

Re: Cars

: My '67 GTO I have probably $20k into it, but I could sell it at a very good profit if I wanted to as it has a quite rare engine/tranny/interior combo. On the other hand my '79 Camaro has about $15k in it and I doubt I could get $10k for it in the best of times (no recession).

79 camaro is a late model used car the goat sounds cool. 389 tri power?

 

[duper]

Re: Cars

I'm also of the belief: drive until dead.

When I sell mine, I plan to sell it to a junk yard, for about $15.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cars

Quite honestly, my time is more valuable to me than what I pay a mechanic in labor. Plus, he's got a bunch of tools that I don't have—I knew this before, and working on our race car has only reinforced that. We've torn the engine down and built it back up, then replaced the head, so I have some comfort with doing all of those things, and yet I'd still take my car to the shop to get similar work done.

Mine is, when I have my brother fix it.

SOH: never liked the style of the (cli)Taurus, how it felt in the driver's seat, the layout of the interior, nothing.

And repair vs buy new(er): I recently had about $2K done (probably $3K if it wasn't my brother working on it) on my Wrangler ('99/80K). However, if in decent condition, it was worth 5x that according to Kelley Blue Book, and while scouting newer used Wranglers, the cheapest I found was a 2007, with 40K on it, for a mere $18K. Yeah, not happening.

 

[state of hockey]

SOH: never liked the style of the (cli)Taurus, how it felt in the driver's seat, the layout of the interior, nothing.

Well, I'm not going to argue that they weren't ugly.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cars

Well, I'm not going to argue that they weren't ugly.

I have to admit, the layout whilst sitting in the driver's seat was more than enough for me. Parise it was horrible. The rest was just fodder for more hate. And Big Poppa had one later on in life, still hated it, so you can't blame it on the "new to driving" factor. I don't hate them as much as the Toyota FJ's, BUT.....

 

[MattS]

Re: Cars

79 camaro is a late model used car the goat sounds cool. 389 tri power?

Sure if a late model used car if they all can do 10 seconds on a Strip.

Yeah, 389, tri power, automatic and factory AC. That is what makes it rare. Kid I bought it from had no clue that it originally had that combo as he never had Pontiac document it and the factory AC was gone. I got all of the historical documents from Pontiac after I got it and that is when I found out it was so rare. Something like 37,000 GTO were made in '67 and less than 1200 had the tri/auto/ac combo in a hardtop version. So that is when plans changed from making it into a pro street car into a restoration car. I did make a couple changes from original, like adding seat belts.

 

[walrus]

Re: Cars

Sure if a late model used car if they all can do 10 seconds on a Strip.

Yeah, 389, tri power, automatic and factory AC. That is what makes it rare. Kid I bought it from had no clue that it originally had that combo as he never had Pontiac document it and the factory AC was gone. I got all of the historical documents from Pontiac after I got it and that is when I found out it was so rare. Something like 37,000 GTO were made in '67 and less than 1200 had the tri/auto/ac combo in a hardtop version. So that is when plans changed from making it into a pro street car into a restoration car. I did make a couple changes from original, like adding seat belts.

GTO sounds nice. Always liked them. I'll bet it can smoke some f7814 tires

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Cars

Holy wah. I don't know whether to applaud these kids for living the dream or slap them for endangering innocent motorists.

Sadly, this means now some slapnut like Jack Thompson is going to start crusading against Top Gear.

/the best television show...
//...in the world

 

[duper]

Re: Cars

Here's what irritates me about that. Over $2 million worth of cars. 13 cars. Holy Crap! I like cars, but it's hard to imagine that even being rich enough not to care would make me pay over $150,000 for a car.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Cars

Here's what irritates me about that. Over $2 million worth of cars. 13 cars. Holy Crap! I like cars, but it's hard to imagine that even being rich enough not to care would make me pay over $150,000 for a car.

Hard for me to imagine what people are willing to pay for Detroit muscle cars of the sixties and early seventies when watching Barrett-Jackson auctions. Particularly the Mopar Hemi cars. Not that I don't understand, or wouldn't if I had the means...but I recall these cars sitting on the showfloor of my Grandfather's and thirty something year old father's dealership when I was a little kid...with a window sticker MSRP of between $3500.00 and maybe $4600.00 at the high end. Shoulda filled a fricken warehouse with 'em. Ah...hindsight!