Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

they're mostly rich elite white liberals in california. Already know that. And they're beyond stupid.

ding! It's actually an interesting intersection of views between "liberal elite" mother earth hippies and libertarian conspiracy theorists. But nowadays the "causes autism" debate has pretty much been dropped. It's about mercury injections and aborted fetuses being involved in cell culturing, and probably whatever else they can come up with. The true believers haven't brought up the autism angle in years, although NPR still uses it as a catch-all for the cause.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

I'd love to be there to see all you guys' faces if/when you actually find out the demographics of the "anti-vaxers." You'd be truly shocked.

Guess which U.S. presidential candidate was playing to his "rabid base of retards" when he said this to great applause as recently as 2008? "We’ve seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Nobody knows exactly why. There are some people who are suspicious that it’s connected to vaccines and triggers, but -- this person included."

Color me not shocked.

Here is a physician scientist who has written about alt med, vaccines, EBM, etc for more than a decade. Read the whole post and the pertinent links.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/02/03/is-republican-party-becoming-antivaccine-party/

"Antivaccinationism is often presented and criticized as a belief that arises primarily among crunchy, affluent liberals. Even The Daily Show makes that mistake. In fact, existing evidence suggests that the prevalence of antivaccine views are very similar on the left and the right, or, as I like to say, antivaccine views transcend politics."

No one who follows these issues closely are shocked.

Edit: Another physician weighs in.
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/vaccine-debate-heats-up/#more-7573

 

[TimP]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

They're mostly rich elite white liberals in California. Already know that. And they're beyond stupid.

Like you can talk. Look at what your hero Scott WalKKKer is doing right now. He's trying to kill the Wisconsin idea, one of the few worthwhile things that hell-hole has produced, and he's bringing into the open the deep vein of anti-intellectualism within much of the contemporary Republic Party. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Like you can talk. Look at what your hero Scott WalKKKer is doing right now. He's trying to kill the Wisconsin idea, one of the few worthwhile things that hell-hole has produced, and he's bringing into the open the deep vein of anti-intellectualism within much of the contemporary Republic Party. Pot, meet kettle.

Dude. Lay off the meth.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

It appears Jeb is coming out of the shoot with social 'moderation'. His slogan is a 'right to rise'. After touting pretty strong moderate to almost liberal positions supporting immigration and education, he's aiming for the middle by advancing a focus to help the less affluent move forward. That might win more sympathy in the north and moderate battleground states, and specifically with lunchpail dems. But whenever the topic changes, he appears to be full stop for fiscal conservatism, etc. He will be tough to beat.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/03/politics/jeb-bush-2016-detroit/

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Like you can talk. Look at what your hero Scott WalKKKer is doing right now. He's trying to kill the Wisconsin idea, one of the few worthwhile things that hell-hole has produced, and he's bringing into the open the deep vein of anti-intellectualism within much of the contemporary Republic Party. Pot, meet kettle.

I think I just found my new favorite poster.


Do it again! Do it again!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

like you can talk. Look at what your hero scott walkkker is doing right now. He's trying to kill the wisconsin idea, one of the few worthwhile things that hell-hole has produced, and he's bringing into the open the deep vein of anti-intellectualism within much of the contemporary republic party. Pot, meet kettle.

Nice.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

I'd love to be there to see all you guys' faces if/when you actually find out the demographics of the "anti-vaxers." You'd be truly shocked.

Guess which U.S. presidential candidate was playing to his "rabid base of retards" when he said this to great applause as recently as 2008? "We’ve seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Nobody knows exactly why. There are some people who are suspicious that it’s connected to vaccines and triggers, but -- this person included."

California

There's another CA Map that allows you to drill down (to LA area?), but I can't find the link.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Like you can talk. Look at what your hero Scott WalKKKer is doing right now. He's trying to kill the Wisconsin idea, one of the few worthwhile things that hell-hole has produced, and he's bringing into the open the deep vein of anti-intellectualism within much of the contemporary Republic Party. Pot, meet kettle.

FYI...Scoobs:

is a solid lefty
is being sarcastic (for which he's almost as famous as for his pessimism)
hates pretty much everything about WI as he's from MN

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

God ****ing dammit. I was trying to have a nice discussion on vaccines and somehow abortion got dragged into it.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

God ****ing dammit. I was trying to have a nice discussion on vaccines and somehow abortion got dragged into it.

Well why do you hate babies and rainbows?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

The only thing "dictating" anything is evidence. Who are you to say which are more critical to get than others? There is very good reasoning behind the recommended vaccine schedule by the CDC and AAP and the schedule is fluid within reason based on best available evidence. The vaccines that are recommended are critical in the sense that they have been shown to improve health outcomes and decrease preventable diseases. You claim to want nuanced discussion but think that occurs at the public level. It doesn't. The nuance is understood by experts and is fought out in the literature, not in the media.

The amount of background knowledge one needs to know to make an informed decision about vaccinations is staggering. Many physicians have no idea, and you would like parents to have the final say on such an important public heath issue? Most physicians follow the recommendations but others go off the deep end and that is where you get people as detached from reality as this guy. http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/arizo...ds-to-critics-regarding-measles-and-vaccines/
At best, he performs malpractice on a daily basis.

It saddens me when colleagues do not understand the principles behind evidence based medicine but to be honest, it does not necessarily affect their efficacy if they stay within reasonable recommendations.

And to your comment on the "litany" of vaccinations that children get now. Its bull****. "Too much too soon" is a dead concept, not supported by any research. In fact, in the 1980's, people received about 3,000 antigens total, as compared to 150 today. The vaccine number may be increasing but the antigen number is decreasing because, by golly, science allowed us to improve.

You may be in the field, but you have little respect for viewpoints other than your own. I know folks in the field who see it differently than you. You make me out to be some mindless vaccination opponent, when I'm far from it if you stopped to actually read what I've said for a moment. Every time I see an expert like you try to shut down people who have a somewhat (but not that) different perspective than your own, it makes me a little less trusting of the "experts". But thankfully in this country people (including parents) still have some say in how their (and their childrens') lives are conducted, though people like you will I'm sure eventually have their way and take more and more control away from individuals. Thinking you can talk down to people because you're in a field and they are not is simply bush league.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

God ****ing dammit. I was trying to have a nice discussion on vaccines and somehow abortion got dragged into it.

Actually nobody had said anything about abortion for a good number of posts before you say this. Just sayin'

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

FYI...Scoobs:

is a solid lefty
is being sarcastic (for which he's almost as famous as for his pessimism)
hates pretty much everything about WI as he's from MN

Which is what made TimP's post possibly the greatest in Cafe history.

It's just... I can't even... "Palinesque" comes to mind, but that's only an approximation.

Well done, sir. Well done.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

You may be in the field, but you have little respect for viewpoints other than your own. I know folks in the field who see it differently than you. You make me out to be some mindless vaccination opponent, when I'm far from it if you stopped to actually read what I've said for a moment. Every time I see an expert like you try to shut down people who have a somewhat (but not that) different perspective than your own, it makes me a little less trusting of the "experts". But thankfully in this country people (including parents) still have some say in how their (and their childrens') lives are conducted, though people like you will I'm sure eventually have their way and take more and more control away from individuals. Thinking you can talk down to people because you're in a field and they are not is simply bush league.

You're kidding, right? You have to be. We're talking about vaccination here and we've given you the facts and you still deny it? It's on the CDC's website. Look it up yourself. Whoever you're talking to is wrong. The guy at Mayo who is the top expert in the field confirmed EVERYTHING on the CDC website. I gave you the link. Read it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

You may be in the field, but you have little respect for viewpoints other than your own. I know folks in the field who see it differently than you. You make me out to be some mindless vaccination opponent, when I'm far from it if you stopped to actually read what I've said for a moment. Every time I see an expert like you try to shut down people who have a somewhat (but not that) different perspective than your own, it makes me a little less trusting of the "experts". But thankfully in this country people (including parents) still have some say in how their (and their childrens') lives are conducted, though people like you will I'm sure eventually have their way and take more and more control away from individuals. Thinking you can talk down to people because you're in a field and they are not is simply bush league.

It's frustrating to actually know something about a subject and have somebody who knows absolutely nothing about it come along and make a contradictory statement which you know is wrong.

I understand your point of view when it comes to, say, politics -- things that are by definition negotiable and not empirical. Tolerance there is not just commendable, it's essential for a good society. But you're taking that and extending it to matters of fact, and that doesn't stand. If you say 2+2=5, it's quite likely that you'll be hooted down, and it doesn't matter a jot if that hurts your feelings or makes you suspicious of mathematicians.

This seems to come up again and again from the right, on evolution, on climate change, etc. Facts don't work by voting. People who study a subject all their lives do know better about that subject than you, and do deserve to be listened to on that subject more than you. Calling that "elitism" is like saying if enough people don't believe in gravity we'll float away.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

It's frustrating to actually know something about a subject and have somebody who knows absolutely nothing about it come along and make a contradictory statement which you know is wrong.

I understand your point of view when it comes to, say, politics -- things that are by definition negotiable and not empirical. Tolerance there is not just commendable, it's essential for a good society. But you're taking that and extending it to matters of fact, and that doesn't stand. If you say 2+2=5, it's quite likely that you'll be hooted down, and it doesn't matter a jot if that hurts your feelings or makes you suspicious of mathematicians.

This seems to come up again and again from the right, on evolution, on climate change, etc. Facts don't work by voting. People who study a subject all their lives do know better about that subject than you, and do deserve to be listened to on that subject more than you. Calling that "elitism" is like saying if enough people don't believe in gravity we'll float away.

http://youtu.be/VOYzrHdH-kM?t=3m11s

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

You may be in the field, but you have little respect for viewpoints other than your own.

You are assuming a lot there and have no idea how I work on a daily basis. I have little respect for dangerous ideas that are not substantiated by reality.

I know folks in the field who see it differently than you.

Me too. Most are pretty close on consensuses with vaccination though. Those that are intellectually honest follow the vaccination schedule because it is best practice and design experiments to answer their alternate hypotheses.

You make me out to be some mindless vaccination opponent, when I'm far from it if you stopped to actually read what I've said for a moment.

I am not making you out to be anything. Some of your comments are mindless, not you. You should not take it personally but learn and if you still disagree, substantiate your opinion with evidence.

Every time I see an expert like you try to shut down people who have a somewhat (but not that) different perspective than your own, it makes me a little less trusting of the "experts".

I am no expert. But I have a decent understanding of basic science and have read a lot of experts opinions, who do not all agree. When in doubt, I will rely on experts.

But thankfully in this country people (including parents) still have some say in how their (and their childrens') lives are conducted, though people like you will I'm sure eventually have their way and take more and more control away from individuals.

The problem is, you seem to only see it from an individual perspective. Many parents live in daily fear that their immunocomprimised child will get a immune preventable disease and die. They do not have a choice but we as a society can protect them.

Thinking you can talk down to people because you're in a field and they are not is simply bush league.

Tone is difficult to judge on a online forum. I think some colorful language spices things. If something is bull****, I will call it bull****. I wouldn't say that in the clinic because, well, a hockey forum is different. I try to throw in certain terminology so a meaningful discussion can be had, not to talk down. Semantics are actually important when we are talking about "nuance."

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

You are assuming a lot there and have no idea how I work on a daily basis. I have little respect for dangerous ideas that are not substantiated by reality.


Me too. Most are pretty close on consensuses with vaccination though. Those that are intellectually honest follow the vaccination schedule because it is best practice and design experiments to answer their alternate hypotheses.


I am not making you out to be anything. Some of your comments are mindless, not you. You should not take it personally but learn and if you still disagree, substantiate your opinion with evidence.


I am no expert. But I have a decent understanding of basic science and have read a lot of experts opinions, who do not all agree. When in doubt, I will rely on experts.


The problem is, you seem to only see it from an individual perspective. Many parents live in daily fear that their immunocomprimised child will get a immune preventable disease and die. They do not have a choice but we as a society can protect them.


Tone is difficult to judge on a online forum. I think some colorful language spices things. If something is bull****, I will call it bull****. I wouldn't say that in the clinic because, well, a hockey forum is different. I try to throw in certain terminology so a meaningful discussion can be had, not to talk down. Semantics are actually important when we are talking about "nuance."

You use awful broad brushes in what you say around this place, and sure are certain about things. Hint. You're not the only one who does a lot of research and reading and all into issues and someday you'll realize that two people can honestly approach the same issue, research it a good deal, and come to very different conclusions. Even your responses here see everything as pretty black and white, when a lot of people see at least some shades of gray (as there are in most issues we deal with as a society). I'll give you credit, your slams are a lot more sophisticated than someone like Scooby, but in the end they are still slams and you still just claim you know what's right and someone like myself, when I say something different, you dismiss. Too bad, as in some ways you seem to be a very thoughtful poster. With some toning down, you could be another thoughtful liberal poster like Kepler, who I rarely agree with, but enjoy the back and forth with and can still be respectful to each other.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

You're kidding, right? You have to be. We're talking about vaccination here and we've given you the facts and you still deny it? It's on the CDC's website. Look it up yourself. Whoever you're talking to is wrong. The guy at Mayo who is the top expert in the field confirmed EVERYTHING on the CDC website. I gave you the link. Read it.

Give facts? That'd be a first for you.