Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Preaching to the choir on that one.

Personally I'd build the pipeline anyway. I'd make it federally owned. And I tax (Carbon Tax) every drop that comes through there. And I'd make it illegal to ship it by rail at the same time.

Problem solved.

You're going to need more pipes.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

You're going to need more pipes.

Sigh.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

I didn't know it was being sold as a jobs bill. MN needs the Keystone XL because the oil is being shipped by freight trains, which is taking up space that coal shipments used to occupy. Midwestern electric companies are worried that they're going to run out of coal or be very close to it before the end of the winter. That's not likely to change so long as oil continues to ship by rail.

I've read numerous sources that speculate it would actually increase gas prices by about 25-40 cents because it would divert more unprocessed oil to southern states that currently ends up in the Midwest for cheap.

I may be remembering the details of how wrong but I definitely remember the gas hike.

 

[walrus]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

The alternative is renewable energy.

Awesome bring it on, first show me the math though, ok?

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Awesome bring it on, first show me the math though, ok?

Geothermal looks promising, if you can get past the greens. Hydroelectric is good, but you do need a dam and greens do not like dams. Solar? Need mo bettah technology. Maybe in 15 - 20 years it will be economical.

But we still have to move objects from point A to point B. For that we need fossil fuels.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

I'd like to see somebody (Hillary I'd assume since she's more of a pragmatist) link climate change with energy independence. Simply put, you go crazy on domestic green energy (wind, solar, hydro, some nuclear) while cranking up exports of fossil fuels to other countries. Even if the domestic energy costs a bit more at first, put it in place. Eventually the world will try to mimic the US on clean energy, but in the meantime we'll be raking in the $$$$ from them. This would keep the enviros happy as they'd see this country hitting all its carbon reduction targets, while keeping the energy people happy with a robust industry exporting their product. What's not to like?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

I'd like to see somebody (Hillary I'd assume since she's more of a pragmatist) link climate change with energy independence. Simply put, you go crazy on domestic green energy (wind, solar, hydro, some nuclear) while cranking up exports of fossil fuels to other countries. Even if the domestic energy costs a bit more at first, put it in place. Eventually the world will try to mimic the US on clean energy, but in the meantime we'll be raking in the $$$$ from them. This would keep the enviros happy as they'd see this country hitting all its carbon reduction targets, while keeping the energy people happy with a robust industry exporting their product. What's not to like?

I like it

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

I'd like to see somebody (Hillary I'd assume since she's more of a pragmatist) link climate change with energy independence. Simply put, you go crazy on domestic green energy (wind, solar, hydro, some nuclear) while cranking up exports of fossil fuels to other countries. Even if the domestic energy costs a bit more at first, put it in place. Eventually the world will try to mimic the US on clean energy, but in the meantime we'll be raking in the $$$$ from them. This would keep the enviros happy as they'd see this country hitting all its carbon reduction targets, while keeping the energy people happy with a robust industry exporting their product. What's not to like?

Works for me. I wouldn't mind throwing all that money down the renewable rathole just for the benefit of getting nuclear off top dead center.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Why not the worst?

 

[joecct]

Why not the worst?

Warren Harding!

 

[Slap Shot]

I'd like to see somebody (Hillary I'd assume since she's more of a pragmatist) link climate change with energy independence. Simply put, you go crazy on domestic green energy (wind, solar, hydro, some nuclear) while cranking up exports of fossil fuels to other countries. Even if the domestic energy costs a bit more at first, put it in place. Eventually the world will try to mimic the US on clean energy, but in the meantime we'll be raking in the $$$$ from them. This would keep the enviros happy as they'd see this country hitting all its carbon reduction targets, while keeping the energy people happy with a robust industry exporting their product. What's not to like?

Overall yes, although the enviros won't be happy as long as there are cows spewing methane and all those exported fossil fuels will still be problematic in their eyes even if exhausted on someone else's soil. Just sayin.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Overall yes, although the enviros won't be happy as long as there are cows spewing methane and all those exported fossil fuels will still be problematic in their eyes even if exhausted on someone else's soil. Just sayin.

We'll be happier, though.

The irony is nobody loses under Rover's plan because even Big Energy will just shift over into renewables to get their grubby paws on all the new investment dollars blowing around. This is one of those instances where the opposition to the change isn't even being driven by rentiers, but just short term blindness (and of course political posturing: drill baby drill ).

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Well, since I got such an enthusiastic reaction (although Opie was conspicuously silent ) I'll next unveil my linking income inequality to restoring manufacturing in the US proposal for some politician to poach....

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Well, since I got such an enthusiastic reaction (although Opie was conspicuously silent ) I'll next unveil my linking income inequality to restoring manufacturing in the US proposal for some politician to poach....

US Manufacturing is very strong, has been for a long, long time. It just doesn't require nearly as much manual labor anymore, giving the impression to the average joe on the streets that it's in trouble.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

US Manufacturing is very strong, has been for a long, long time. It just doesn't require nearly as much manual labor anymore, giving the impression to the average joe on the streets that it's in trouble.

"Impression" is understating. Manufacturing used to mean heavy industry and low skill labor, and was a source of mass employment that lent itself to unionization, thus building the American middle class. Since firms can now outsource most of that work to countries with slave labor wage scales, or automate with robotics, that pool of employment opportunity has dried up. The rise of the service economy has only provided garbage jobs with low wages, low job security, and no opportunity to develop skills and move up.

The Average Joe is correct that US manufacturing is weak in terms of employment opportunity. That may not change ever, since the world is a huge place and worker's rights are almost non-existent in most of it, thus firms have a nearly infinite supply of effectively free labor to draw upon. If somebody figures a way out of that they'll be the first.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

"Impression" is understating. Manufacturing used to mean heavy industry and low skill labor, and was a source of mass employment that lent itself to unionization, thus building the American middle class. Since firms can now outsource most of that work to countries with slave labor wage scales, or automate with robotics, that pool of employment opportunity has dried up. The rise of the service economy has only provided garbage jobs with low wages, low job security, and no opportunity to develop skills and move up.

The Average Joe is correct that US manufacturing is weak in terms of employment opportunity. That may not change ever, since the world is a huge place and worker's rights are almost non-existent in most of it, thus firms have a nearly infinite supply of effectively free labor to draw upon. If somebody figures a way out of that they'll be the first.

There are good jobs out there for low skilled and mechanically inclined people, it's just that people aren't learning those mechanical skills. Look up job openings for machinists. Companies can't find enough of them becuase people don't know the skillset. Jobs around here start at $19-20/hr. While it's not great, experienced machinists can get around $30-35/hr, which will make for a comfortable living. My brother owns a small commercial HVAC company that employs five union craftsmen, the union appretinceship starting wage of $25/hr, has a number of the experienced journeymen making $45/hr plus union benefits, but my brother complains of not enough qualified HVAC techs with enough skills for him to commit the $85,000 in startup equipment required per employee. He has a backlog of work out there right now. A service industry isn't all retail and restaurants.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

I was reading an article on AZ District 2, where the U.S. House race is within 161 votes and will be going to a recount.

An interesting tidbit in talking about various reasons why not all ballots were counted was that 52 voters cast early ballots and then tried to vote at the polls on election day. The Pima County Recorder indicated they would seek prosecution of the 52 for attempting to vote twice.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/the-skinny/Content?oid=4874870

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

There are good jobs out there for low skilled and mechanically inclined people, it's just that people aren't learning those mechanical skills. Look up job openings for machinists

Oh, absolutely, but there are thousands of those jobs, whereas there were millions of jobs at the steel plant and the assembly line.

It shouldn't really be a controversial matter that American heavy manufacturing is effectively dead as a source of mass upward mobility because for once neither political theory caused the problem or even materially exacerbated it. It was an inevitable consequences of much bigger economic and technological forces.

There's a great article out there about how the same thing happened within the US several times during our industrial development, where the "outsourcing" was at smaller levels of distance. For example, manufacturing started to move away from the coastal cities with organized, higher wage labor to inland cities with much lower wage scales when the railroads improved the distribution network and allowed firms to build factories where they could dominate the local political environment and ensure attractive (for the owners) conditions. High intensity-labor jobs move towards whatever exploitable labor pool is cost-effective. Globalization is just the next step. Presumably, someday jobs will move off-planet to Firefly-like company towns without pesky labor and environmental laws.

 

[unofan]

"Impression" is understating. Manufacturing used to mean heavy industry and low skill labor, and was a source of mass employment that lent itself to unionization, thus building the American middle class. Since firms can now outsource most of that work to countries with slave labor wage scales, or automate with robotics, that pool of employment opportunity has dried up. The rise of the service economy has only provided garbage jobs with low wages, low job security, and no opportunity to develop skills and move up.

The Average Joe is correct that US manufacturing is weak in terms of employment opportunity. That may not change ever, since the world is a huge place and worker's rights are almost non-existent in most of it, thus firms have a nearly infinite supply of effectively free labor to draw upon. If somebody figures a way out of that they'll be the first.

Eventually there will be a single manufacturing job: the guy who creates the robot that fixes the robots who create everything else.

All that's left at that point are service, academic, and cultural jobs.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Run-HRC? Honest Injun? Gott Mitt Himmel? RyanRubioCruzCrud?

Eventually there will be a single manufacturing job: the guy who creates the robot that fixes the robots who create everything else.

All that's left at that point are service, academic, and cultural jobs.

And hookers. Or are those cultural?