Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an election

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I do not understand at all the fascination with Rubio. I just don't get it.

Really? He's young, charismatic, good hair (a modern requisite for office), doesn't have any major scandals under his belt, seems relatively competent, he's firmly in the conservative range without being wack-a-doodle like Cruz/Trump/Carson, etc.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Really? He's young, charismatic, good hair (a modern requisite for office), doesn't have any major scandals under his belt, seems relatively competent, he's firmly in the conservative range without being wack-a-doodle like Cruz/Trump/Carson, etc.

He's also boring, uninspiring, and scripted. Its like a GOP version of John Kerry with a tan and without being a war hero.

Funny how knuckledraggers have told us for the last 7 years how its mistake to elect a 1st term Senator for President, and yet they have 3 of them running in 2016!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Really? He's young, charismatic, good hair (a modern requisite for office), doesn't have any major scandals under his belt, seems relatively competent, he's firmly in the conservative range without being wack-a-doodle like Cruz/Trump/Carson, etc.

I don't see any charisma at all. To me he comes across as scripted, humorless, and to be honest a little dull-witted (though to be fair he's a genius compared to Huckabee or Jindal). Christie beats him on all three of those traits and also delivers that dumb jock argle bargle that has given Republicans goose bumps ever since the Gipper. Even Bush, whose campaign may be less capably managed than Hillary's, beats him three for three.

I think it comes down to: he's brown, young and can deliver a mandatory state to a party that is way too white and way, way too old.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I don't see any charisma at all. To me he comes across as scripted, humorless, and to be honest a little dull-witted (though to be fair he's a genius compared to Huckabee or Jindal).

He's also boring, uninspiring, and scripted.

I agree. That's why I don't get it.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I don't see any charisma at all. To me he comes across as scripted, humorless, and to be honest a little dull-witted (though to be fair he's a genius compared to Huckabee or Jindal). Christie beats him on all three of those traits and also delivers that dumb jock argle bargle that has given Republicans goose bumps ever since the Gipper. Even Bush, whose campaign may be less capably managed than Hillary's, beats him three for three.

I think it comes down to: he's brown, young and can deliver a mandatory state to a party that is way too white and way, way too old.

Eh. Probably because he doesn't side with you on topics you're passionate about. Back in 2008 I remember thinking that Obama had fake charisma or it was being built up by the liberals.

As an aside, we really need to work this into our regular lexicon:

argle bargle

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Eh. Probably because he doesn't side with you on topics you're passionate about. Back in 2008 I remember thinking that Obama had fake charisma or it was being built up by the liberals.

That's possible, but I don't think that's it. I felt Reagan's charisma -- it wasn't dampened by my being against what he wanted to do. If anything it heightened my frustration that someone with a gift for leadership was using it to such ill ends.

I think there's a difference between charisma, which is a characteristic that emanates from and remains with the person, and persona (sorry, Trump), which is a role adopted by an actor. For instance, Reagan had both -- his "cowboy" persona was just a role he played because it sold well with the rubes. But quite independent of that he also had sincere qualities that shown through the mask he was wearing and still drew you to him.

To me, Rubio has zero charisma -- he's as flat as Jindal. He plays the "immigrant with America in his eyes" role very well, and I'm sure there are (naive) people who respond to that, but they're responding to an act, not a man. Charisma, as its root indicates, is "a Providential gift" -- a real quality, not a performance.

I wax lyrical about charisma because I've felt it in the flesh, watching Jesse Jackson speak at Stanford in 1988. In the words of Baroness Kessler in the Ninth Gate:

KESSLER: My latest work: 'The Devil: History and Myth' - a kind of biography. It will be published early next year.

CORSO: Why the Devil?

KESSLER: I saw him one day. I was fifteen years old, and I saw him as plain as I see you now.

When that happens, it is unsettling and one does not forget it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Dog & Pony III criteria out.

With a 3% average, the current cut off would have 6 clearly in and 4 on the bubble:

TRUMP
CARSON
FIORNA
RUBIO
BUSH
CRUZ
...............
KASICH
HUCKABEE
PAUL
CHRISTIE
...............
JINDAL
GRAHAM
PATAKI
SANTORUM

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Dog & Pony III criteria out.

With a 3% average, the current cut off would have 6 clearly in and 4 on the bubble:

TRUMP
CARSON
FIORNA
RUBIO
BUSH
CRUZ
...............
KASICH
HUCKABEE
PAUL
CHRISTIE
...............
JINDAL
GRAHAM
PATAKI
SANTORUM

So, that's the incredible GOP deep bench I kept hearing about. And look at those top 6.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

So, that's the incredible GOP deep bench I kept hearing about. And look at those top 6.

Looks like Bush v Rubio for all the marbles unless Tenebrific Ted's terrorism in December somehow makes him a righty hero.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Looks like Bush v Rubio for all the marbles unless Tenebrific Ted's terrorism in December somehow makes him a righty hero.

So, rock hard establishment and so boring he makes me want to power vomit for the win?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

So, rock hard establishment and so boring he makes me want to power vomit for the win?

Um... yes?

But at least we have the Democr--

(three beats)

Huh.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Looks like Bush v Rubio for all the marbles unless Tenebrific Ted's terrorism in December somehow makes him a righty hero.

Yeesh. I almost...almost! feel sorry for you righty bahstids.

Can't see Rubio getting the nomination. Not sure what he has over Calgary Ted who's 1) a True Believer, 2) also Hispanic, and 3) a better speaker to the base. Can somebody tell me something that Rubio has actually done?

Scooby you're dead on accurate. Lose the party labels for a minute. If one side boasted a Senator/Sec of State, a sitting VP, a 30 year Senator/Rep/Mayor, a two term Governor of a good sized state (15th or so?), a former Senator and Navy Secretary, and a two term Senator and one term governor, and then the other side had a failed CEO, a retired doctor, a 4 times bankrupt businessman, 2 two term governors, 3 1 term Senators, three governors who's been out of office for almost a decade, who has the strongest field? Yes its great everybody and their brother decided to run for Prez this year but do Jindal, Pataki, Huckleberry and Perry add anything more than Lincoln Chaffee does, since they're all at about the same level of support in the polls? How about Walker vs O'Malley? Yet who got more press. Who on the right has Clinton or Biden or even Sanders experience?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Clinton v Bush is a good election match-up for the Democrats. Most voters will see it as a referendum on the comparative bodies of work of Bill v the 2 Georges, and that is a no contest Democratic win.

Clinton v Rubio is more interesting. Compared to Rubio, Hillary will look like Methuselah. But that cuts both ways: in a dangerous world with Putin in Syria, will people feel comfortable turning the country over to a kid who looks barely old enough to drive? It would be wonderfully ironic if after years of trying to gin up existential threats in order to make Americans terrified, the GOP handed the election to the Iron Maiden because yeah, she's a big bad bitter b-itch, but who better to square off against Vlad the Annexer?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

That's possible, but I don't think that's it. I felt Reagan's charisma -- it wasn't dampened by my being against what he wanted to do. If anything it heightened my frustration that someone with a gift for leadership was using it to such ill ends.

I think there's a difference between charisma, which is a characteristic that emanates from and remains with the person, and persona (sorry, Trump), which is a role adopted by an actor. For instance, Reagan had both -- his "cowboy" persona was just a role he played because it sold well with the rubes. But quite independent of that he also had sincere qualities that shown through the mask he was wearing and still drew you to him.

To me, Rubio has zero charisma -- he's as flat as Jindal. He plays the "immigrant with America in his eyes" role very well, and I'm sure there are (naive) people who respond to that, but they're responding to an act, not a man. Charisma, as its root indicates, is "a Providential gift" -- a real quality, not a performance.

I wax lyrical about charisma because I've felt it in the flesh, watching Jesse Jackson speak at Stanford in 1988. In the words of Baroness Kessler in the Ninth Gate:



When that happens, it is unsettling and one does not forget it.

Fair enough. I guess I see unpolished charisma. If that's a thing. He's young and will probably get better as he gains experience.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

So, the heir to the Speakership admits that the Benghazi committee was there just to bring down Clinton. Hillary couldn't have asked for a better Christmas gift and it's a few months early.

 

[joecct]

Clinton v Bush is a good election match-up for the Democrats. Most voters will see it as a referendum on the comparative bodies of work of Bill v the 2 Georges, and that is a no contest Democratic win.

Clinton v Rubio is more interesting. Compared to Rubio, Hillary will look like Methuselah. But that cuts both ways: in a dangerous world with Putin in Syria, will people feel comfortable turning the country over to a kid who looks barely old enough to drive? It would be wonderfully ironic if after years of trying to gin up existential threats in order to make Americans terrified, the GOP handed the election to the Iron Maiden because yeah, she's a big bad bitter b-itch, but who better to square off against Vlad the Annexer?

Ahh grasshopper. But what if the publik connects the rise of Vlad the Devourer of Countries to Her Regal Clintoness?

Two issues that will decide the election
The stupid economy
Foreign policy

The rest is just noise.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Bernie's going to get at least one chance to go mano a roboto.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I'm beginning to think he's just waiting to see if Bernie overtakes Clinton, and then if that happens he can come in and "save" the Dem establishment.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Ahh grasshopper. But what if the publik connects the rise of Vlad the Devourer of Countries to Her Regal Clintoness?

Two issues that will decide the election
The stupid economy
Foreign policy

The rest is just noise.

And we know which of those two most people pay more attention to.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Where does Rubio play though outside of Florida? Do you picture Trump voters suddenly backing him in droves? GOP needs to 1) Hold the Confederacy (FL/VA/NC), 2) Challenge the Rust Belt (OH/WI/PA) and if that fails 3) win somewhere else (NH/CO/IA). Remember, even if they flip the Big 3 of FL/OH/VA they still lose the election. Republican voters aren't interested in an immigrant family success story if the family isn't from Europe. Denying that fact doesn't make it any less true.