Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an election

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

The thing is, for whatever my policy differences with him may be, the man *cares*. He is tireless, passionate, serious, and he has a vision. He is a repected adversary in a field of opportunistic, power hungry putzes. People should at least give Sanders the courtesy of considering voting for him as seriously as he considers his positions.

One test of whether the media is directly, rather than just undirectly, a tool of the ruling class will be whether they ever simply start covering Sanders as a candidate rather than as a freak. His ideas cut directly into the profit center that has enriched the media's ownership, so if they cover him fairly and substantively we still have an independent fourth estate. If not, then that's done now, and the press is just a propaganda arm of the plutes.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Even as a somewhat schizophrenic conservative, I would vote for Sanders over every Republican so far (one may yet surprise me). Having lived in VT for 7 years, Bernie has aleady represented me in Washington. Would I want him to be my dictator? Heck no. The thing is, for whatever my policy differences with him may be, the man *cares*. He is tireless, passionate, serious, and he has a vision. He is a repected adversary in a field of opportunistic, power hungry putzes. People should at least give Sanders the courtesy of considering voting for him as seriously as he considers his positions.

100% agree. I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out, as I think people like him are few and far between in politics.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

One test of whether the media is directly, rather than just undirectly, a tool of the ruling class will be whether they ever simply start covering Sanders as a candidate rather than as a freak. His ideas cut directly into the profit center that has enriched the media's ownership, so if they cover him fairly and substantively we still have an independent fourth estate. If not, then that's done now, and the press is just a propaganda arm of the plutes.

They'd rather wonder how Hillary's polling shows a benefit for Biden.....

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

100% agree. I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out, as I think people like him are few and far between in politics.

I mostly agree. While I think Sanders is pretty far out there on certain issues, I respect his passion and genuineness and caring and have given him more thought and consideration that I thought I would. If I had a gun to my head, I might just go with him over Hillary or Biden if I had to choose, trusting that his furthest out ideas would be tamped down by the other branches of government.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Bernie posted this video a couple days ago.

I'm not sure if you can view it without having a Facebook account or not, and none of the information (economy) is really new for anyone that has been paying attention, but I did think the amount of shares it's gotten is somewhat important. It's at 150k right now and 3.1 million views, more than any of the videos Hillary has put up, and more shares than anything else candidates have looked at from the big ones that I looked up.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I mostly agree. While I think Sanders is pretty far out there on certain issues, I respect his passion and genuineness and caring and have given him more thought and consideration that I thought I would. If I had a gun to my head, I might just go with him over Hillary or Biden if I had to choose, trusting that his furthest out ideas would be tamped down by the other branches of government.

The latter is a great point. Fiscal policy is probably where Bernie is at his most "way out," and that's also a place where he needs Congress to act.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

The latter is a great point. Fiscal policy is probably where Bernie is at his most "way out," and that's also a place where he needs Congress to act.

Yeah, Bernie is "way out" on fiscal policy yet trickle down is mainstream.

No wonder we're all bankrupt.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Bernie posted this video a couple days ago.

I'm not sure if you can view it without having a Facebook account or not, and none of the information (economy) is really new for anyone that has been paying attention, but I did think the amount of shares it's gotten is somewhat important. It's at 150k right now and 3.1 million views, more than any of the videos Hillary has put up, and more shares than anything else candidates have looked at from the big ones that I looked up.

Anybody can view it; I don't have Facebook and I saw it fine.

Good video. As you said, the information isn't new but for many people it will be new. The bitter irony is that so many lower income conservatives have been voting against their interests, and obviously the Echo Chamber functions as a firewall to stop them from getting the facts.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Anybody can view it; I don't have Facebook and I saw it fine.

Good video. As you said, the information isn't new but for many people it will be new. The bitter irony is that so many lower income conservatives have been voting against their interests, and obviously the Echo Chamber functions as a firewall to stop them from getting the facts.

As with most folks, low income conservatives have to balance candidates that have some policies that are in their interests and other policies that may not be. As you know, for at least a good chunk of these folks, social issues are important and the Dems are so far gone on many of those issues that there isn't much of a choice.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

As with most folks, low income conservatives have to balance candidates that have some policies that are in their interests and other policies that may not be. As you know, for at least a good chunk of these folks, social issues are important and the Dems are so far gone on many of those issues that there isn't much of a choice.

I appreciate that, but I mean there are also low income fiscal conservatives who are not necessarily social conservatives and who would be receptive to arguments about economics. I work with guys who are ex-mil southerners who are not in any way social cons or fundies, but who are pro-Main Street, anti-Wall Street, blue collar economic conservatives -- the kind of people Trump is appealing to. I believe if you took Bernie's video and recorded a Republican saying it they would give it a standing ovation. They are the people who I think it's important to let decide for themselves whether there's merit in Sanders' stances on taxes and investment. And I think those are the people who the RNC, CFG, ATR and WSJ are terrified of losing, because they know they've been playing them for suckers for decades.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

On what Bernie will do when he is accused of being a Socialist, he will own it right away. I am pretty dang sure he self identifies as such and has said so on TV before so even if he wanted to walk it back he couldnt. Thing is he honestly believes in what he says so he wouldnt anyways.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

On what Bernie will do when he is accused of being a Socialist, he will own it right away. I am pretty dang sure he self identifies as such and has said so on TV before so even if he wanted to walk it back he couldnt. Thing is he honestly believes in what he says so he wouldnt anyways.

IIRC Bernie was actually a Socialist when he ran Burlington. Hence the famous "People's Republic of Burlington" Doonesbury cartoon.

Like I said: own it. Let the bloviators scream "witch." By the second 24-hour news cycle they will be doing stories on why the Dutch, Swedes and Norwegians have the best median quality of life in the world, with the US nose-diving ever since Reagan gave the rich the keys to the Treasury and said "thanks for the election; help yourself."

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I appreciate that, but I mean there are also low income fiscal conservatives who are not necessarily social conservatives and who would be receptive to arguments about economics. I work with guys who are ex-mil southerners who are not in any way social cons or fundies, but who are pro-Main Street, anti-Wall Street, blue collar economic conservatives -- the kind of people Trump is appealing to. I believe if you took Bernie's video and recorded a Republican saying it they would give it a standing ovation. They are the people who I think it's important to let decide for themselves whether there's merit in Sanders' stances on taxes and investment. And I think those are the people who the RNC, CFG, ATR and WSJ are terrified of losing, because they know they've been playing them for suckers for decades.

No question there are a variety of flavors in low income conservative voters, like most any voting group.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Interesting response to Bernie's speech from an evangelical Liberty alumni.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Interesting give and take about the WSJ article saying Sanders proposals thus far would cost 18 trillion dollars over 10 years. Mostly this is due to single payer but also some other job training and free college proposals. Sandernistas keep me honest here, but I believe in his campaign's pushback in the blogosphere they said his proposals would generate savings to offset that but they don't have a dollar amount yet.

This is exactly the kind of attack he's going to need to be adept at fending off. I'm not sure if he did a formal response in the WSJ, but this is a good example of how the lamestream media can plant a figure in the public's mind. Now perhaps its true but as a numbers guy myself I'd love to see a detailed response showing how much he thinks he'd spend and the net cost after savings were factored in.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Interesting give and take about the WSJ article saying Sanders proposals thus far would cost 18 trillion dollars over 10 years. Mostly this is due to single payer but also some other job training and free college proposals. Sandernistas keep me honest here, but I believe in his campaign's pushback in the blogosphere they said his proposals would generate savings to offset that but they don't have a dollar amount yet.

This is exactly the kind of attack he's going to need to be adept at fending off. I'm not sure if he did a formal response in the WSJ, but this is a good example of how the lamestream media can plant a figure in the public's mind. Now perhaps its true but as a numbers guy myself I'd love to see a detailed response showing how much he thinks he'd spend and the net cost after savings were factored in.

That number includes a general proposal for single payer that was proposed by congress, not something by Sanders, which is what bumps it up 15 trillion. And comparatively, according to this article we'll already be spending as a country 42 trillion for healthcare.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-bankrupt-america-to-the-tune-of-18-trillion/

But health care is nevertheless a good place to examine why these big numbers can be so misleading. At the moment, total health care spending in the United States runs over $3 trillion a year; according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, over the next decade (from 2015-2024), America will spend a total of $42 trillion on health care. This is money that you and I and everyone else spends. We spend it in a variety of ways: through our health-insurance premiums, through the reduced salaries we get if our employers pick up part or all of the cost of those premiums, through our co-pays and deductibles, and through our taxes that fund Medicare, Medicaid, ACA subsidies, and the VA health care system.

Furthermore
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-friedman/the-wall-street-journal-k_b_8143062.html

The Journal correctly puts the additional federal spending for health care under HR 676 (a single payer health plan) at $15 trillion over ten years. It neglects to add, however, that by spending these vast sums, we would, as a country, save nearly $5 trillion over ten years in reduced administrative waste, lower pharmaceutical and device prices, and by lowering the rate of medical inflation.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I'll be following @dick_nixon on twitter tonight. The man has good political insight on campaigns.

In the meantime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW3MIixEps4

 

[Foxton]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Let the Reagan jerk off begin!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

The Rules for debate 2:


Drink THE FIRST TIME and the FIRST TIME only:

1. A candidate invokes the memory of Saint Reagan.

2. A candidate mentions Hillary's emails.


Drink EVERY TIME:

3. Hugh Hewitt hurls a ******y gotcha question at Trump.

4. Trump – or any of the other candidates – insults or threatens one of the moderators. Beer chaser if it's Tapper or Bash, and the candidate rips liberal-*** CNN in the process.

5. Trump brags about his wealth or his poll numbers, or mocks the low poll numbers of an opponent.

6. A candidate pledges to stand with Israel.

7. Carly Fiorina makes a joke about her own face.

8. A candidate claims a positive relationship with a minority. We're keeping this rule in every debate. (So far we're one-for-one: Kasich said he had a gay friend in the first debate.)

9. Anyone mentions Kim Davis or the "War on Christians."

10. A candidate says he'll stand up to Putin.

11. Trump derides someone for being a "lightweight" or having "low energy" or "low enthusiasm."

12. Anyone mentions Tom Brady or Deflategate.

13. Anyone calls Black Lives Matter a "hate group," argues that BLM or Barack Obama have endangered the lives of police, or pulls a "What about black-on-black crime?" line.

14. A candidate mentions the founders. Double shot if it's Rand Paul.

15. Carson invokes the Bible as an authority for something that has nothing to do with the Bible, like tax policy.

16. A candidate says, "I'm the only person on this stage who…" Double shot if it's Carson saying something like, "I'm the only candidate who's had his hands inside a human thorax."

17. Anyone mentions Hitler, Nazis or Neville Chamberlain. Includes related imagery, e.g. "ovens."

18. A candidate stumbles over what to call ISIS/ISIL, or mispronounces the name of a world leader.

19. Anyone mentions the Governator or makes a Terminator-themed joke, e.g. "To illegal immigrants, I say, Hasta La Vista."


Drink EVERY TIME you hear:

20. "Anchor babies."

21. "Thug."

22. "Leading from behind."

23. "All lives matter."

24. "Apologize for America."

25. "Eye-ran."


Take a shot of JAGERMEISTER if:

26. Anyone compares Kim Davis to Rosa Parks.

27. Any candidate is seen wearing a Blue Lives Matter bracelet.

28. A candidate offers an insincere paean to departed Rick Perry. Double shot if someone references his "smart glasses."

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Oh crap Pataki just cited 9/11. He was probably was banging an escort the night before. Leadership my butt. Rudy carried the day.