Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

The Deplorables are loyal to the end. The popular vote for Trump is the same now as it was before the March of the Assaulted. Hillary has gained 2 points; Johnson has lost 2 points. C'est tout.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Could one of you please post me a link to one of joe's post where he shows his support for tDonald? It shouldn't be all that tough since tDonald is his hero. I can't recall seeing one but I'm only on here intermittently so I'm sure I could have missed one. The ones I've read seem to suggest he dislikes both HRC & tDonald but you two suggest my impression is incorrect. Thanks in advance for the link

I don't know if there are posts where he explicitly states he is supporting Trump. But anyone who doesn't explicitly express their utter disdain for Trump, or defends or tries to explain away anything Trumps says or does, is a problem. Trump is not just a bad candidate for president. We've had plenty of those. Trump wouldn't just be a bad president. We've had plenty of those too. Trump as a phenomena itself is as dangerous a threat as America has faced in my lifetime and beyond. Any voice raised about him must be raised in condemnation with no equivocation or you are part of the problem. We speak here in this forum and those that preceded it about all of the ridiculous false equivalencies trying to say "well sure Trump is bad but what about the emails" and other such nonsense. It's not enough to say Trump is unqualified along the lines of Sarah Palin was unqualified. This is a completely different level of danger. If you don't recognize that, I have a problem with it. These people are not just going to vote and when Clinton wins on November 8th go away. As citizens we mustn't allow them to spread their filth throughout society. You either condemn Trump or you don't get it. While we live in a world that is made up mostly of shades of gray, some things are black and white. This is one of them.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

I don't know if there are posts where he explicitly states he is supporting Trump. But anyone who doesn't explicitly express their utter disdain for Trump, or defends or tries to explain away anything Trumps says or does, is a problem. Trump is not just a bad candidate for president. We've had plenty of those. Trump wouldn't just be a bad president. We've had plenty of those too. Trump as a phenomena itself is as dangerous a threat as America has faced in my lifetime and beyond. Any voice raised about him must be raised in condemnation with no equivocation or you are part of the problem. We speak here in this forum and those that preceded it about all of the ridiculous false equivalencies trying to say "well sure Trump is bad but what about the emails" and other such nonsense. It's not enough to say Trump is unqualified along the lines of Sarah Palin was unqualified. This is a completely different level of danger. If you don't recognize that, I have a problem with it. These people are not just going to vote and when Clinton wins on November 8th go away. As citizens we mustn't allow them to spread their filth throughout society. You either condemn Trump or you don't get it. While we live in a world that is made up mostly of shades of gray, some things are black and white. This is one of them.

Well said.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Maybe, though that also sounds like our reaction to another top-notch poster, Bob Gray.

I don't think that's the compliment you think it is. They both have a habit of spewing hateful (but it's usually subtly hateful, so that's better?) bs, ignoring when they are called on it, then repeating it a week or two later.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Mike Pence is getting embarrassed by John Dickerson.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Maybe, though that also sounds like our reaction to another top-notch poster, Bob Gray.

But joecct can speak for himself. I find the gangbang of him unseemly. It is hard, right now, to be a conservative of conscience.

He's getting gangbanged because all of us saw his post for what it was. Maybe his intent wasn't to excuse sexual assault, but that was the effect it had.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

I don't know if there are posts where he explicitly states he is supporting Trump. But anyone who doesn't explicitly express their utter disdain for Trump, or defends or tries to explain away anything Trumps says or does, is a problem. Trump is not just a bad candidate for president. We've had plenty of those. Trump wouldn't just be a bad president. We've had plenty of those too. Trump as a phenomena itself is as dangerous a threat as America has faced in my lifetime and beyond. Any voice raised about him must be raised in condemnation with no equivocation or you are part of the problem. We speak here in this forum and those that preceded it about all of the ridiculous false equivalencies trying to say "well sure Trump is bad but what about the emails" and other such nonsense. It's not enough to say Trump is unqualified along the lines of Sarah Palin was unqualified. This is a completely different level of danger. If you don't recognize that, I have a problem with it. These people are not just going to vote and when Clinton wins on November 8th go away. As citizens we mustn't allow them to spread their filth throughout society. You either condemn Trump or you don't get it. While we live in a world that is made up mostly of shades of gray, some things are black and white. This is one of them.

Nailed it. The firewall against this kind of dangerous nationalism must hold. If this becomes the norm, we and our nation are in serious trouble of becoming another Greece or France where this kind of hate is both normal and accepted.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Like WeAreNDHockey, I'm bothered by the "equivalencies" that are being put with Trump's bragging about sexually assaulting women.

Yes, Bill cheated on Hillary- that is well put out. But the accusations of sexual assault? If they were true, there's easily a massive political incentive to prove that- so the fact that it wasn't suggests that it wasn't true. (or Republican sided lawyers really suck)

Trump cheated, too. Given that's he's on marriage 3, it's probable that he cheated more than Bill did- but either way, it's not good.

But Trump has bragged about assaulting women. He can deny further accusers all he wants, but we have it on tape that he says he does, and can get away with it. I honestly don't care is that's locker room talk- now that it's out, it's pretty obvious that he thinks less of women as people and more as just as an object that he can dominate.

We DO NOT NEED PEOPLE LIKE THAT in power. WE DO NOT NEED THE RETURN OF BULLYING. WE DO NOT NEED PEOPLE TO WIN ARGUMENTS BY BEING THE STRONGER ONE!

We need smart and logical people to win arguments.

Anyway, there's no equivalency of cheating to assault. None at all.

Earlier, there was suggestions that Michelle was being bad since she heard similar words in songs. Seriously? Somehow she can't be stunned that a person who is the top of the Republican Party brags about assaulting women because she heard words in a song??? Again, to make it equivalent that you hear words in a song to being stunned that a possible President brags about assaulting women??? Really?

Then the idea that Hillary shreds Bill's accusers vs. trump shredding his accusers. So the words are similar. Ok. trump STILL bragged about assaulting women. Hillary has not done that. Just said words.

I 100% get the notion that we can't be so one sided here. But some of this "alternate" view really tries to play down how serious sexual assault is. That is totally unacceptable to me.


(on a more humorous side note- it's funny to hear that trump claims this a conspiracy of left wing media when Bill claimed 20 years ago of attacks from the right wing media. In fact, both are more attacked by the truth)

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Kep, your fondness of joe notwithstanding, he gets what he deserves. He's fallen into the Sicatoka mode of "I'm not voting for the guy, but I'll defend pretty much everything he does and says in one way or another". This is the problem, and its why Trump still gets about 40% of the vote. People finding absurd false equivalencies to still stick up for the guy. Trump needs to be humiliated and ostracized, for the good of HIS OWN PARTY, let alone the country. Anybody carrying the water for him just delays that from happening.

 

[walrus]

He's getting gangbanged because all of us saw his post for what it was. Maybe his intent wasn't to excuse sexual assault, but that was the effect it had.

Excuse sexual assualt? I didn't see that at all. I see him comparing 2 men who use there power to abuse women.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

That is what joecct is doing in this instance, but I strongly suspect each of us has done it, like him, accidentally -- among the fallacies it is likely the one committed most frequently with no malice nor intent to evade. It feels relevant, though it is not.

But JFC people, joecct is a model poster here and all the ad hom and insults are just wrong. Although there are a couple posters here who are genuine trolls, joecct is among the best we have. It is hardly a reach to put yourself in his shoes (fingers?) and see that from his POV we appear as the basest of hypocrites.

Rover, minus the insults, has actually done a good job of comparing the differences between Trump and Bill Clinton. I defer to that as the reasons why I don't view my condemnation of one as opposed to the other as hypocritical. But we should take heed of joecct's warning that insofar as we examine our own logic we could still be deluded. Cognitive biases lurk everywhere, generated by everything from our partisanship to our brain structure. In that he is 100% correct.

No he isnt...you are the only one who doesnt see it dude and part of it is you are comparing him to the rest and not actually reading what he is saying. If a different poster posted the exact same things joe has been posting of late you would be all over them for it. Concern trolling, false equivalencies and just some real bile that he hides with nicer words and religious rhetoric. He colors up the language but go back and see the stuff he posts (like any time it is something with even a little bit of religiosity) and then compare it to Rick Santorum or Mike Pence...it isnt as different as you think it is.

You want proof...he tried this false equivalency crap with Bill last week. He pretends like Bill was never punished for what he did. Well even Drumpf doesnt claim that because he and his surrogates are telling everyone what happened to him. He was impeached, he lost his license...etc. They tried to prove he deserved more, including trying to tie all the other scandals in and despite an unlimited checkbook and no blockage to his purview the special prosecutor who was appointed by Congress couldnt prove anything. (this is of course leaving aside that Bill is not running for office)

Drumpf admitted what he has done. This isnt He Said/She Said, this is He Said/He Said. Just like every other lie he tells he isnt arguing with anyone but himself. There is actual record of him saying it. it has gotten to the point that he isnt even really worried abotu denying it anymore because the Drumpfers are saying it is ok and he should be able to act that way. The two situations dont parallel. (which is why he is trying to use Kennedy now...funny he doesnt bring up any of the GOP philanderers)

Look I feel for him because I truly believe he wants nothing to do with this clown. joe is a man of Christian values (the good and the bad) and well Drumpf could not be farther from that. He is probably frustrated watching his party sink so low and embrace all the crap that was sort of hiding in the dark corner. I get that and it sucks...but this is what they have wrought. You dont get to spend 8 years appealing to the darkest and basest of human hatred and vile thoughts and not expect it will bite you in the ***. The GOP wanted people to believe our sitting President was inhuman, a demon, a racist against white people, a Muslim, a Socialist, a Communist and born in Kenya making him unableto hold the office he won fair and square. And maybe it wasnt joe's wing doing that, but they were doing plenty of other horrible things to deny other people fundamental rights based on even flimsier explanations. (you know, like Jesus did) He has said as such on this board many times.

Sorry buddy, but I just cant agree with you any more. You know who is more dangerous than the Hillbilly screaming about overthrowing the government and hating everyone? The educated man who does the same thing only in a much more polite way.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Excuse sexual assualt? I didn't see that at all. I see him comparing 2 men who use there power to abuse women.

Well, then perhaps you should read it again. And then try to discern the difference between cheating on your wife with a consenting adult and cheating on your wife by grabbing a non-consenting woman by her *****.

If you can't, I can't help you.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

As to the politics of this, my God Trump could not be more self-destructive if they tried. The vast majority of women are going to identify with Hillary as the wronged party in instances of Bill's infidelity. Even if she demonized Bill's accusers -- perhaps even more strongly if she did -- they will put themselves in the place of the homewrecked, not the homewrecker.

The establishment GOP knows this, so they aren't going near it. It's left to Trump's inner circle of 9/11 Guilliani, and the Tartuffes Robertson, Reed, and Falwell fils, to feed themselves into that meat grinder. Go, boys, go!

Drumpf and his cronies are declaring war on their own party...he is done. Christ the one swing state he seems to hold on to (Ohio) is the one he is going after now because they want to focus on the down ballot offices. They know they cant win (my guess is internally 538's numbers are rosier than theirs) so they are going to burn the whole thing to the ground, claim it is rigged and dupe the Rubes into watching their new TV network run by Breitbart clones.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Well, then perhaps you should read it again. And then try to discern the difference between cheating on your wife with a consenting adult and cheating on your wife by grabbing a non-consenting woman by her *****.

If you can't, I can't help you.

Some people dont see a distinction of difference...partially because some people dont find either behavior wrong.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Excuse sexual assualt? I didn't see that at all. I see him comparing 2 men who use there power to abuse women.

Where did Bill get accused of walking up to women, kissing them, and grabbing various parts???

trump bragged about ASSULTING women. Not just having sex with them because he is powerful. There is a difference.

It's like if anyone here bragged about going up to people and punching them for fun. That's not locker room talk.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Sorry buddy, but I just cant agree with you any more. You know who is more dangerous than the Hillbilly screaming about overthrowing the government and hating everyone? The educated man who does the same thing only in a much more polite way.

What is so scary about those people- the more that we find out that trump is a bad person, the more people defend the way he is bad, and that he should win the contest at all costs.

Terrible to defend that kind of behavior.

Who here has defended Sandusky? If you didn't, you should not be trying to fend off the assaults that trump has done. Power puts women in the same place to trump as kids to Sandusky

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Ladies and gentlemen, the party of racial sensitivity.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Maybe, though that also sounds like our reaction to another top-notch poster, Bob Gray.

But joecct can speak for himself. I find the gangbang of him unseemly. It is hard, right now, to be a conservative of conscience.

Bob Gray? Bob Gray was the ultimate martyr. Sure he would have his few good posts (usually discussing his family...almost never political) but Cthulu forbid you bring up how the Christians (or other groups from his side) are not being persecuted in this country cause he would rant all day. he also loved to pepper his rants with worthless personal anecdotes about the one liberal person he knows or the conservative women (whatever ox he is goring) to represent all of them to prove his point. And then if you dared argue with him he would get vile...not Old Pio vile (another one who people defend despite being just a jerkoff old man) but vile. Bob Gray is one of like 4 people I have blocked on this board and I have been here as long as you have Kepler.

At least people like nate91b were entertaining in their hatred...they werent pretending to be intelligent and "asking the tough questions". Bob Gray was always fixing himself a spot on the cross next to Jesus with how horrible the liberals were treating him and his fellow conservatives of conscience. (who wanted to deny people all sorts of inherent rights again)

Bob Gray was the conservative Rover. When emotion wasnt involved you can have a real nice conversation with them and they might not try and offend you. The problem was as time went on the lucid conversations were getting fewer and far between. It can be fun for a while (like when he accused me of stalking him when he was quoting my posts and responding in multiple threads) but it got real vile at times and tiresome after a while. It would get to the point where innocuous posts would send him off on rants, even you were pointing it out.

I love discussing things with liberals and conservatives (it is usually better in person but I digress) up until the point that it isnt discussing it is shouting and there is zero of value coming from it. Boards like this where people can post rather anonymously allow even the good hearted, intelligent people to act like buffoons. (we have all done it) Maybe Bob Gray is a peach in real life, the kind you love to hang with and wrangle over the issues while having a drink. But his last few years on this board, he was closer to Glenn Beck than he was say George Will. IMHO.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Ladies and gentlemen, the party of racial sensitivity.

Link is broken...and not just because it is Joe the Plumber

 

[walrus]

Well, then perhaps you should read it again. And then try to discern the difference between cheating on your wife with a consenting adult and cheating on your wife by grabbing a non-consenting woman by her *****.

If you can't, I can't help you.

I don't believe he is talking about lewinsky, their are a few more accusations in Clinton's life.