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Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes early

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

Kepler said:
But if you just print out Trump's statements they sound like an ADHD kid. His thoughts and words jangle between "I AM GREAT" and "Everything other than me is terrible, just terrible. Sad."
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Throw a huuuuuuuuge in there and you qualify as his speechwriter.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

The Sicatoka said:
really is the cool kids, beltway, word for Syrian refugee crisis caused by IS, ISIS, ISIL, DAISH, whaeverthehelltheyarethisweek..
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"DAESH" (as I thought it was spelled, at least up to recently) wasn't a cool kids / Beltway thingy. It was people in the Middle East telling the West to stop using a term that had "Islamic State" or "Caliphate" in it because that was playing into their hands. It was like using the "Christian Knights of the White Camelia" instead of "KKK" -- it was giving them what they wanted by using a name that deliberately conflated them with a broader group.

IINM "DAESH" is a double burn, because it denies them their "Islam" reference in the name and it is also something dirty or demeaning in Arabic.

This is one of those times when the reflexive "hur hur you pointy heads hur" rhetoric falls flat.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

Kepler said:
"DAESH" (as I thought it was spelled, at least up to recently) wasn't a cool kids / Beltway thingy. It was people in the Middle East telling the West to stop using a term that had "Islamic State" or "Caliphate" in it because that was playing into their hands. It was like using the "Christian Knights of the White Camelia" instead of "KKK" -- it was giving them what they wanted by using a name that deliberately conflated them with a broader group.

IINM "DAESH" is a double burn, because it denies them their "Islam" reference in the name and it is also something dirty or demeaning in Arabic.

This is one of those times when the reflexive "hur hur you pointy heads hur" rhetoric falls flat.
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But that goes to my point: The short-attention span .... is that a Zapdos! ... American public can't, doesn't, won't keep track of any of that. Call them something; be consistent. (What I'd like to call them is a smoldering remnant of history.)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

The Sicatoka said:
But that goes to my point: The short-attention span .... is that a Zapdos! ... American public can't, doesn't, won't keep track of any of that. Call them something; be consistent. (What I'd like to call them is a smoldering remnant of history.)
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It's not about the US public, it's about the Islamic world who we need on our side to win. I agree we should stick with DAESH or whatever it is now, but if the early terminology was wrong change it.

Meanwhile, the very entity that Trump always says to google to prove he was "always against the war" says he's lying.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

Kepler said:
It's not about the US public, it's about the Islamic world who we need on our side to win.
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No. The Islamic world needs us on their side to win.

The US could win without them. But it would not go down well in history.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

The Sicatoka said:
So what I'm now reading here is "Aleppo" really is the cool kids, beltway, word for Syrian refugee crisis caused by IS, ISIS, ISIL, DAISH, whaeverthehelltheyarethisweek. And it was confirmed that Aleppo is an NPR (aka PBS on FM) thing. Not surprised. Not impressed. I guess I should have more gravitas and use the cool kids' term of the week.

Now, I'd rather say Syrian refugee crisis than Aleppo. Why? It humanizes the problem; refugees are people. I'd rather say ISIS than Aleppo. Why? Name the problem and say it. Abstracting it all to Aleppo is just abstracting the issues so you don't have to really admit and face them.
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Without researching the term, isn't Aleppo the capital city of Syria? How would that be a changing term? Wouldn't it be more exact, if the news itself was targeted directly to that city rather than areas out in the hinterlands of Syria?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

The Sicatoka said:
But that goes to my point: The short-attention span .... is that a Zapdos! ... American public can't, doesn't, won't keep track of any of that. Call them something; be consistent. (What I'd like to call them is a smoldering remnant of history.)
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Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with the American public. It's a discussion about a man trying for a job that will involve playing one of the most important roles in the future of the conflict.

It's amazing to me that you've spent months trying to convince us that Hillary Clinton's extremely technical cyber security missteps somehow disqualify her, but this guy fails a fourth grade Scholastic News quiz and he gets a free pass.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

The Sicatoka said:
No. The Islamic world needs us on their side to win.

The US could win without them. But it would not go down well in history.
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This simply isn't correct. How's the US going to "win"? Turn the desert to glass and become a rogue state? Launch a conventional war in the region and bankrupt ourselves for another generation?

All our advantages mean zero when we act like a big swinging dick. That was the real lesson of Iraq: the idea that the US can force a political outcome is completely discredited. Diplomacy is 99 times more valuable than the military now.
 
The Sicatoka said:
So what I'm now reading here is "Aleppo" really is the cool kids, beltway, word for Syrian refugee crisis caused by IS, ISIS, ISIL, DAISH, whaeverthehelltheyarethisweek. And it was confirmed that Aleppo is an NPR (aka PBS on FM) thing. Not surprised. Not impressed. I guess I should have more gravitas and use the cool kids' term of the week.

Now, I'd rather say Syrian refugee crisis than Aleppo. Why? It humanizes the problem; refugees are people. I'd rather say ISIS than Aleppo. Why? Name the problem and say it. Abstracting it all to Aleppo is just abstracting the issues so you don't have to really admit and face them.
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So because you don't care about a distinction between a city and a country, a person running for President shouldn't either?

Good call.... :rolleyes:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

unofan said:
So because you don't care about a distinction between a city and a country, a person running for President shouldn't either?

Good call.... :rolleyes:
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No, I care about refugees and terror groups.

Where Johnson failed is that he has no plan for dealing with ISIS. Nada.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

Kepler said:
This simply isn't correct. How's the US going to "win"? Turn the desert to glass and become a rogue state?
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Like I said, " ... it would not go down well in history."

And we're already that rogue state. We just don't like to admit it. See: Hiroshima, circa August 1945. See also: Nagasaki, circa August 1945.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

The Sicatoka said:
No, I care about refugees and terror groups.

Where Johnson failed is that he has no plan for dealing with ISIS. Nada.
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I'm sure there's a practical user fee model for counter-terrorism.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

The Sicatoka said:
Like I said, " ... it would not go down well in history."

And we're already that rogue state. We just don't like to admit it. See: Hiroshima.
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Nope. First one's on the house.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

Kepler said:
Nope. First one's on the house.
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Note my edits, specifically ... "See also: Nagasaki, circa August 1945."

First one might be free; second makes you full rogue state.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVII: If debates are great theater, I think this one closes e

The Sicatoka said:
Where Johnson failed is that he has no plan for dealing with ISIS. Nada.
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Well, yeah. Libertarians don't believe in interfering with international politics that do not directly impact the United States, whether that's diplomacy or sending in troops. Their default position would be that we should pull all our remaining troops out of the area and shut down our foreign military bases - make the rest of the Middle East deal with the problem. Then, ISIS isn't a threat until they start trying to attack Americans on US soil.

It's a foolish plan, but it's what they endorse.
 
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