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Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

It is unfortunate, since Republicans are almost surely just as grateful for our veterans' service as Dems or any other politically affiliated group. But the GOP party itself has become so committed to this divisive name-calling, fear-mongering strategy that it just makes their own party members appear like middle-schoolers. IMO, that is the harm that people like Limbaugh, Ailes, Atwater, Rove, and Murdoch have ultimately inflicted on the members of that party. Perhaps that is far too simplistic a view to defend, but it sure appears to be the case.

No. They didn't "inflict" it on the party. Franz Luntz and Roger Ailes didn't hold the virginal Republican party down and force them to become the home of bigots and demagogues. The party played along, lapped it up, and participated enthusiastically every step of the way. The right wing grasshopper snatched that peddle from Atwater's hand long ago.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

After all this endless discussion, I still haven't grasped a fundamental concept here. Someone who believes Hillary is poison because she cannot be trusted please explain to me like I'm a six year old.

A hostile and politically motivated committee investigates Benghazi for two years, grills Clinton for 11 hours and does not find evidence of wrongdoing by HRC. It also does not conclude that she could have saved any of the 4 lives lost. It does criticize the Defense Department, the CIA, and State for failing to recognize the vulnerability of that outpost.


We don't know everything about the email fuss yet. But can anyone identify any of the following: 1) Which email practice was unique to HRC among current and former State Dept officials, including former SOS; 2) What highly classified and sensitive information was released in such a way that will or might cause us harm; and 3) What factual basis is there to conclude that HRC knowingly used the system she used for illegal or dangerous purposes and whether the same assumption can be made about others who used a similar system?

These are simple questions, and although the answers might be readily available elsewhere, I haven't seen them on this board, despite the fact that so many cite a lack of trust as their primary reason for concluding she is unfit. She is by far the most qualified candidate, and I don't hear many citing democratic platform positions as a reason not to vote for her. It's always her character, and from what I see, the email and Benghazi issues play in important part in that. I don't get it. I DO understand why the GOP plays this angle, but I don't understand why it gains so much purchase.

I'm not a big HRC fan, and I know there ARE plenty of reasons not to vote for her relating to policies she is likely to either support or fail to oppose. But other than Kepler, those reasons to not get a lot of air time.
 
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I wish the 2 vice presidential candidates were the 2 running for president. They both seem more grown up than the 2 we are stuck with.

Funny you could not have been happier when Palin was the VP pick but Hillary you rip? So much for being about women and not party...
 
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No. They didn't "inflict" it on the party. Franz Luntz and Roger Ailes didn't hold the virginal Republican party down and force them to become the home of bigots and demagogues. The party played along, lapped it up, and participated enthusiastically every step of the way. The right wing grasshopper snatched that peddle from Atwater's hand long ago.

Luntz seems to regret it now...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

No. They didn't "inflict" it on the party. Franz Luntz and Roger Ailes didn't hold the virginal Republican party down and force them to become the home of bigots and demagogues. The party played along, lapped it up, and participated enthusiastically every step of the way. The right wing grasshopper snatched that peddle from Atwater's hand long ago.

Maybe they did not inflict it on the party, but they seem to have, at minimum, fostered the growth of something they now cannot control.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Trump blames Hillary for debates being scheduled during NFL games, even though the dates were decided upon by an independent commission last September. He then claims the NFL sent him a letter complaining about the debate dates and NFL responds that they did not. http://deadspin.com/nfl-says-donald-trump-is-full-of-****-never-sent-lette-1784589912
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

After all this endless discussion, I still haven't grasped a fundamental concept here. Someone who believes Hillary is poison because she cannot be trusted please explain to me like I'm a six year old.

A hostile and politically motivated committee investigates Benghazi for two years, grills Clinton for 11 hours and does not find evidence of wrongdoing by HRC. It also does not conclude that she could have saved any of the 4 lives lost. It does criticize the Defense Department, the CIA, and State for failing to recognize the vulnerability of that outpost.


We don't know everything about the email fuss yet. But can anyone identify any of the following: 1) Which email practice was unique to HRC among current and former State Dept officials, including former SOS; 2) What highly classified and sensitive information was released in such a way that will or might cause us harm; and 3) What factual basis is there to conclude that HRC knowingly used the system she used for illegal or dangerous purposes and whether the same assumption can be made about others who used a similar system?

These are simple questions, and although the answers might be readily available elsewhere, I haven't seen them on this board, despite the fact that so many cite a lack of trust as their primary reason for concluding she is unfit. She is by far the most qualified candidate, and I don't hear many citing democratic platform positions as a reason not to vote for her. It's always her character, and from what I see, the email and Benghazi issues play in important part in that. I don't get it. I DO understand why the GOP plays this angle, but I don't understand why it gains so much purchase.

I'm not a big HRC fan, and I know there ARE plenty of reasons not to vote for her relating to policies she is likely to either support or fail to oppose. But other than Kepler, those reasons to not get a lot of air time.

Right, nobody has come up with an actual reason she should be hated or any real evidence that she did anything more criminal than Rice or Powell. Less than either, actually.

What's up with the hate?

What actual criminal things did she do that Rice AND Powell should be charged prior to her (being the first) anyway. Realistically, all the hearings have found nothing. Duh.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Right, nobody has come up with an actual reason she should be hated or any real evidence that she did anything more criminal than Rice or Powell. Less than either, actually.

What's up with the hate?

What actual criminal things did she do that Rice AND Powell should be charged prior to her (being the first) anyway. Realistically, all the hearings have found nothing. Duh.

From what I've read, the rules were different in the Rice/Powell era. That being said, just b/c one person did wrong (arguably or not) does not excuse the current wrong. When the FBI says that any person in their position behaved carelessly and was irresponsible, that just comes across as a red flag to me.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

From what I've read, the rules were different in the Rice/Powell era. That being said, just b/c one person did wrong (arguably or not) does not excuse the current wrong. When the FBI says that any person in their position behaved carelessly and was irresponsible, that just comes across as a red flag to me.

So on their way out the door in January 2009 having deleted every email in the Bush administration, the GOP SecState "changed the rules" and it's now a big no-no.

Right. It's not the usual partisan crap at all.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

So on their way out the door in January 2009 having deleted every email in the Bush administration, the GOP SecState "changed the rules" and it's now a big no-no.

Right.

I ain't saying it's right. I'm saying that under the current rules, it's wrong. And she should be held accountable.

Slavery was okay back in the day, but I am pretty sure it's against the law today. Extreme? Yes. Just proving a point.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Trump blames Hillary for debates being scheduled during NFL games, even though the dates were decided upon by an independent commission last September. He then claims the NFL sent him a letter complaining about the debate dates and NFL responds that they did not. http://deadspin.com/nfl-says-donald-trump-is-full-of-****-never-sent-lette-1784589912

He knows more than anyone how hard it is to challenge the NFL in the fall.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

He knows more than anyone how hard it is to challenge the NFL in the fall.

*thumbsup*
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

I ain't saying it's right. I'm saying that under the current rules, it's wrong. And she should be held accountable.

Slavery was okay back in the day, but I am pretty sure it's against the law today. Extreme? Yes. Just proving a point.

You seem to forget the FBI said what she did was not criminal...so you saying she is is kind of false.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

You seem to forget the FBI said what she did was not criminal...so you saying she is is kind of false.

They said they wouldn't prosecute b/c no one would take the case (my interpretation was even if they WON the case, career would be over). Either way, being THAT careless with emails, something even I can manage, being the flip phone boy and such...would you want that person to be prez? Not me.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

They said they wouldn't prosecute b/c no one would take the case (my interpretation was even if they WON the case, career would be over). Either way, being THAT careless with emails, something even I can manage, being the flip phone boy and such...would you want that person to be prez? Not me.

Yeah, you'd rather have an Orange Baboon who spills state secrets over twitter the minute he gets them.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Yeah, you'd rather have an Orange Baboon who spills state secrets over twitter the minute he gets them.

Not really. Keep trying, though.
 
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