What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Seriously, have you just set up some sort of computer algorithm to spit out variations of names, using various synonyms for orange tinted color for the first, and fascists for the second?

I stole the last one from Trevor Noah. I was much happier with Apricot Authoritarian, but Dr. Mrs. preferred the smooth South African dude. I have never been more jealous. :mad:

I'm sorry if this offends the fans of the Pumpkin Pinochet.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Still- I can't really wrap my head around the Clinton hate.

It's just blind partisan bile. You're talking about people who found a way to revile Michelle Obama, who seems to be an all-around very nice, smart, funny person. But to Republicans she's Jeffrey Dahmer because... reasons.

At a certain point who people hate stops telling you anything about their targets and everything about them.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Interesting that Mr. Ratings got slaughtered in the ratings race for the two conventions. Rumor has it he's now saying he didn't have anything to do with the GOP convention except his speech.

I guess Chachi wasn't his fault either.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Interesting take on the Bloomberg invited to speak angle, but I think trolling Trump all serves the same purpose.

I'm not sure they did it intentionally. Competent as they've been in recent history, I'm still of the generation that expects the Democrats to blunder their way through things, so it was probably a happy accident that worked out perfectly. Yes, everybody on the left side is going to troll Trump. But Bloomberg specifically is a guy that really cuts deep on Trump, because he went up there publicly and said Trump doesn't belong in the super-rich elite club. It's a guy that has hit a few home runs pointing out Trump is still stuck on third base where he was born. And there's nothing that hurts Trump more. He doesn't care about not knowing enough policy to fix the world's problems. He can't spell demagogue. He doesn't care that he cheated people out of money(that's just how the game is played). But he desperately wants everyone to know that he is a rich, successful person.

So you're right that every Dem is going to tell people Trump as a dangerous lunatic. But Bloomberg managed the trick of getting Trump to tell people he's a dangerous lunatic.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Not much...there is always someone looking for a payday and to get his foot in the door on a campaign.

I disagree -- I think his distance from the GOP professionals will strongly affect who he hires as advisors. You know the joke that Newt Gingrich is a stupid man's idea of a smart man? Trump is the kind of person who would hire Newt as an advisor. He would hire Doug Feith as a Middle East expert if he was a decent golfer. Or more likely he'll hire celeb pundits. Imagine debate prep with Jonah Goldberg on Israel, Peggy Noonan on women's pay equity, Bill Kristol on economics and Laura Ingraham on reproductive rights?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

He's accustomed to using experts in his business matters, so he understands their importance, even though he is an attention-seeking child.

You know, I'm not sure it is true that he consults experts in his business. I'm starting to get the impression that Trump doesn't actually do anything -- he just rents out his name as a franchise, like the Kardashians. I would not be shocked if he would fail if given a freshman business course. His father bought him into Wharton; what says he didn't buy his diploma as well?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

I was complimenting you on your loyalty.

Thanks and I'm cool with your comments. People think I'm in a pro-Hillary kick but I'm not. I'm on a "Crush the scum-sucking Republicans and their leader Trump who none of them have the nuts to stand up to" kick. :D
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Joe Biden over HRC? Why? Because their policy positions differ or because she is a "liar" and he is Uncle Joe?

I can't speak for Joe as I think he is pretty far right. But for those of us who consider ourselves more in the center somewhere, we take more into account than a candidates policy positions. (I consider my perception of a candidates integrity, charisma, leadership ability, ability to work with "both sides" in order to get stuff done etc).

But yes I would think you are correct, I bet a lot of people would prefer Biden based on a lot of the "intangible" type of categories that I listed.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Thanks and I'm cool with your comments. People think I'm in a pro-Hillary kick but I'm not. I'm on a "Crush the scum-sucking Republicans and their leader Trump who none of them have the nuts to stand up to" kick. :D

Well, the nice thing about the general election is we are of the same mind on that.

I want to wake up the day after election day to see that no state -- not Alabama or Utah or Wyoming -- fell for the Marmalade Megalomaniac. I'd like to see a 538 EV sweep rejection of his tin star tyranny.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Makes sense, alfa, but I can't accept it because your tag line shows you are a LIAR!! No way FS23 would say such a thing while sober and any proof to the contrary is a fabrication.

Has he changed it based on this spring? I haven't checked. Too lazy. :)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

It's just blind partisan bile. You're talking about people who found a way to revile Michelle Obama, who seems to be an all-around very nice, smart, funny person. But to Republicans she's Jeffrey Dahmer because... reasons.

At a certain point who people hate stops telling you anything about their targets and everything about them.

Well she wanted kids to eat healthier...we all know what THAT means ;)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

I can't speak for Joe as I think he is pretty far right. But for those of us who consider ourselves more in the center somewhere, we take more into account than a candidates policy positions. (I consider my perception of a candidates integrity, charisma, leadership ability, ability to work with "both sides" in order to get stuff done etc).

But yes I would think you are correct, I bet a lot of people would prefer Biden based on a lot of the "intangible" type of categories that I listed.

Maybe on balance, but I think everyone who has worked with Hillary gives her sky high marks on "ability to work with both sides in order to get stuff done." That's her deal -- she's a compromiser. It's probably going to drive my side crazy if/when she wins. She is different from Obama in this regard, though: she has no illusions. Her compromises are part of her drive to push product out the door -- to fashion policies and then connect them up with large groups of constituents to benefit them. Obama's drive to compromise was based on his spiritual idealism that good people working together honestly can make the earth a paradise. Barack has been a good president, but he would have been a great Church Father.

Hillary either never had that idealism or the 25 years of brutality she has endured at the hands of the VRWC and her husband have squeezed it all out of her, but her drive is pure pragmatism. Obama was practical, but Hillary is going to make John Stuart Mill look like a sentimentalist.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

It was a statement to Scooby rather than against HRC. For the past 8 years, opposition to policies or how BO acted was, in several instances, met with cries of racism. Since Scooby stated that the opposition to HRC was estrogen based and she is Caucasian, I expect that once she's POTUS, sooner or later a similar disagreement with her (such as her taxation plans, TPP) will be labeled misogyny rather than racist. The over/under for said labeling is 3/17/17.

Like you, I agree that the nation will perceiver regardless of who wins. And...like Rover, I'll take corruption over stupidity any day of the week. I just don't have to like it and, since I'm in a state that will go HRC, don't have to choose the lesser of the two as I have had to in the past.

That's fair, but it's still a fair general question for people to answer.

I'm 100% with the lack of liking her policies. That's politics. But hate her for them? I don't understand that.

And if it's not that people hate her so much for- what is it?

My editorial- this whole hate over policy positions have to end. That gets this country nowhere. More importantly, it prevents us from compromising on a policy that works better for both (even if it's not perfect for either). Perfection, or complete lack thereof, should not be the "target". Yea, 4 people died with Clinton as SOS. How many died under the rest of them? Just like Bush got Saddam and Obama got Bin Laden. Nobody will ever be perfect, so there's no point in hating the opposition. Disagreeing should be enough.

And ANY level of disagreement should 100% make people vote. And if you are not happy with that- run for office.

Anyway.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

I wonder how Hannity felt when the DNC ran Ronald Reagan's convention all week. The only thing missing was the trickle down economic message. Stephen Hayes (same as Hannity just different DNA) on twitter spent all night *****ing about Hillary's speech. Reagan gave the same speech 36 years ago and he gushed.

I wonder how this Reagan-esque optimism really has played outside of the blue circle though. Most recent Gallup poll shows 82% of Americans are dissatisfied: http://www.gallup.com/poll/1669/general-mood-country.aspx

Reagan's "Morning in America" speech came in '84 after a politically successful first term and satisfaction had risen above 50%. In 1980 when satisfaction numbers were similarly low, Reagan had this to say in the first few paragraphs of his acceptance speech:

"Never before in our history have Americans been called upon to face three grave threats to our very existence, any one of which could destroy us. We face a disintegrating economy, a weakened defense and an energy policy based on the sharing of scarcity."

and

"I will not stand by and watch this great country destroy itself under mediocre leadership that drifts from one crisis to the next, eroding our national will and purpose."

Which seems pretty "dark" especially in light of Reagan's famous optimism. But it also seems clear from the landslide result that it was the sort of message that connected squarely with people who were largely dissatisfied. Will the Dems overarching message of optimism play well now? Seems there's a danger that it might also play in the middle as a disconnected establishment saying "Everything is Awesome!" while the disenchanted feel the Barbarians are at the gates.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Well she wanted kids to eat healthier...we all know what THAT means ;)

Would it have killed Michelle to show at least a little gratitude for all that food and shelter the slaves who built the White House got? They even got MEAT!
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

My editorial- this whole hate over policy positions have to end.

It will. It rises and falls, like hem lines. This is a nice summary of partisanship on major policy votes for the last century. Local maximums at the mid teens (tax policy), 1930 (the Great Depression), 1965 (voting rights), the early 80s (Reagan) and then a long, continuous build since the late 80s (the culture wars and the war over continuing Reaganomics).

It's unusual to spend 20 years so divided, but it's not unusual to go through periods of division. And I think we are starting to see the end of the current division, because -- not to put too fine a point on it -- one side is winning. The culture wars are over and the good guys won. Supply side was considered a dead letter on the mainstream even before the Great Recession tossed it onto the ash heap of history. And attempts to rev up new culture wars on the backs of immigrants or trans people are falling flat.

My guess is as long as we can keep moving the ball down the field with this election, the right will come back to the center just as the left had to after all its losses in the 80s. That central dynamic has always kept America from breaking apart or freezing into stasis, and I fully expect it will again. Politics will still be nasty and personal and we will seem hopelessly divided in the local view, because that never changes. But we are probably moving towards a period of relative agreement and shared norms.

And then the Robot Rights Movement will come along in 2040 and we'll be at each other's throats again, but I'll be retired by then so screw you kids -- figure it out.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

It will. It rises and falls, like hem lines. This is a nice summary of partisanship on major policy votes for the last century. Local maximums at the mid teens (tax policy), 1930 (the Great Depression), 1965 (voting rights), the early 80s (Reagan) and then a long, continuous build since the late 80s (the culture wars and the war over continuing Reaganomics).

It's unusual to spend 20 years so divided, but it's not unusual to go through periods of division. And I think we are starting to see the end of the current division, because -- not to put too fine a point on it -- one side is winning. The culture wars are over and the good guys won. Supply side was considered a dead letter on the mainstream even before the Great Recession tossed it onto the ash heap of history. And attempts to rev up new culture wars on the backs of immigrants or trans people are falling flat.

My guess is as long as we can keep moving the ball down the field with this election, the right will come back to the center just as the left had to after all its losses in the 80s. That central dynamic has always kept America from breaking apart or freezing into stasis, and I fully expect it will again. Politics will still be nasty and personal and we will seem hopelessly divided in the local view, because that never changes. But we are probably moving towards a period of relative agreement and shared norms.

And then the Robot Rights Movement will come along in 2040 and we'll be at each other's throats again, but I'll be retired by then so screw you kids -- figure it out.

Very informative post, as usual, Kep. But I wonder if the way so many of us access information now (algorithmically tailored to our individual predispositions) will change that dynamic.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

But I wonder if the way so many of us access information now (algorithmically tailored to our individual predispositions) will change that dynamic.

It may, but information self-selection has always been with us. Local newspapers pandered to people's POV long before FNC started doing it, and because of commonalities of biography we've always tended to spend most of our time around people who thought like us.

I think the internet is probably a wash: people do tend to frequent sites that reinforce their views, but now more than ever before we have all the other viewpoints available, easily.

If I were a middle school teacher I would assign kids reasonably non-contentious issues and have them demonstrate how different sources select stories and apply techniques, from adjectives to font sizes, to slant the news to what their audience expects. I would treat news coverage like marketing. Produce a generation of kids who would no more believe Hannity (or Maddow) than they believe that this bleach is "new and improved!"
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!

... we've always tended to spend most of our time around people who thought like us.

< Pauline Kael quote here >
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top