Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was In)

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

I did see the Big Short, so I'll comment at will.

Then your more indoctrinated than I ever believed. Sorry to hear that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

And that is enough for me. It's disappointing that it isn't enough for all.

No. It shows she lies less than tDonald. If you shoot only one person and I shoot two, does that mean you're not a murderer anymore?

This is all a party has when it is backed into a corner.

Are you honestly arguing Hillary is not the lesser of two evils?

Because that's really all politics is ever about.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

And that is enough for me. It's disappointing that it isn't enough for all.

The other guy lies more than she does. Just an FYI.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

I know it's fun to compare the two main candidates but just because Trump sucks doesn't mean Hillary is suddenly great. It's like watching a Superbowl between the '76 Bucs and the 2008 Lions. Yes, one team technically sucked more than the other but the real losers are those of us that have to watch.

Your sanctimony aside, that is all we have to choose from. If you want to lead a revolt against the two party system sure, I'll be there with billhook and billyclub. But this system was good enough for your side when it was delivering us to the tender mercies of Bush Père et Fils. It's the height of disingenuousness for you guys to suddenly discover your consciences now.

 

[walrus]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

But sanctimony aside that is all we have to choose from. If you want to lead a revolt against the two party system sure, I'll be there with billhook and billyclub. But this system was good enough for your side when it was delivering us to the tender mercies of Bush Pere at Fils. It's the height of disingenuousness for you guys to suddenly discover your consciences now.

Its not all we have to choose from, isn''t the green party candidate right up your alley?

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

It's nowhere close to b.s. The pieces that went into the housing collapse went 100x beyond Fed involvement in promoting mortgages to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Copied from a previous post:

The following led to the housing collapse: large inflows of foreign funds for years leading up to the collapse, the increase in loan incentives that encouraged borrowers (whom never should have bought in the first place) to believe they would be able to quickly refinance at more favorable terms later on, automated underwriting practices which didn't adequately analyze the ability of borrowers to repay, the inability of buyers to make their mortgage payments (due primarily to adjustable-rate mortgages resetting, borrowers overextending to mortgages more than 4x their annual income, the jobs market, predatory lending, and speculation), overbuilding during the boom period, risky mortgage products, self-regulating by banks, high personal and corporate debt levels (Americans were saving less than ever before in hour history during this time period and household debt skyrocketed), financial products that distributed and perhaps concealed the risk of mortgage default, bad monetary and housing policies, international trade imbalances, and inappropriate government regulation. Facts are lenders made loans that they knew borrowers could not afford. Christ, Google "Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission" for fun. Their findings will affirm that CRAs and F/F (i.e. the Feds) were not a significant factor in subprime lending nor the crisis.

This is exactly what I said. Loans were being extended to people who realistically shouldn't have qualified.

Now, why did that happen exactly?

Since we are apparently relying on Google, consider.

"The financial crisis was triggered by a complex interplay of policies that encouraged home ownership, providing easier access to loans for subprime borrowers, overvaluation of bundled subprime mortgages.....

I guess I don't see where this disagrees with what I said. As I wrote before, I think these policies were well-intended, but like many things just went too far and when coupled with the greed of certain wall street types, caused a massive meltdown.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Its not all we have to choose from, isn''t the green party candidate right up your alley?

Stein? God no. I would like my president to have some basic comprehension of foreign policy and economics.

Right up my alley is probably Senator Warren on domestic and Hillary on foreign policy.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

What I find odd is the continued bleating from our rightly posters that lefties think Hillary is the next FDR or something. Look, as I've said before but will repeat now, sometimes you need a transformational Presidency and sometimes you need someone more steady who will take the handoff and run up the middle in order to keep moving the ball downfield.

So when considering the Dems, you have an old guard (Hillary, Bernie, Biden, Jerry Brown, etc) who've been through the wars the last 30-40 years but maybe have one more run left in them before passing the torch to a younger generation. The hopefully 8 years of Hillary allows that to happen. You could nominate someone who you think is transformative, but you also have more potential for them to lose. Right now, as we sit here in July of 2016, a Dem win gives the party control of the entire federal court system for decades. It also sends the GOP into a tailspin. You don't just p iss that away because you want to replay the McGovern campaign.

Truman wasn't FDR but he got the job done and kept up the momentum. Same concept here.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

This is exactly what I said. Loans were being extended to people who realistically shouldn't have qualified.

Now, why did that happen exactly?

Since we are apparently relying on Google, consider.

"The financial crisis was triggered by a complex interplay of policies that encouraged home ownership, providing easier access to loans for subprime borrowers, overvaluation of bundled subprime mortgages.....

I guess I don't see where this disagrees with what I said. As I wrote before, I think these policies were well-intended, but like many things just went too far and when coupled with the greed of certain wall street types, caused a massive meltdown.

Because originally you tagged a far greater portion of the crisis as being the result of govt policy to allow more low income people to buy houses. As has been posted by several people, this would have been a microscopic cause of the total crisis, which was private lenders having nothing to do with govt influence giving out loans they shouldn't have to people who shouldn't have been asking for them. You originally went down this path to criticize Bill Clinton but its falling short on this issue. Govt policy had very, very little to do with the mortgage crisis, and by chance or design you are parroting the right wing talking point that is used to blame minorities for something they aren't responsible for.

 

[burd]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

And that is enough for me. It's disappointing that it isn't enough for all.

No. It shows she lies less than tDonald. If you shoot only one person and I shoot two, does that mean you're not a murderer anymore?

Are matters of degree irrelevant?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

I agree with Rover's language although I disagree strongly with the notion that we are not in need right now of a transformational president. We have been under the knife of trickle down and plutocracy for 36 years and it is high time we took our government back. What is the Trump supporters' anger about at the end of the day but the destruction of democracy and the shunting of all benefits and policy preferences to the 1%?

The vast majority of Americans are not racists. Our problem now is the only major party with any incentive to protect working class and middle class voters, the Democratic party, is as much a tool of the 1% as the GOP. Change that -- repudiate the plutocracy from inside the DNC -- and about 50% of Trump supporters would vote for a liberal economic alternative.

Everybody knows the fix has been in since 1980 except a handful of Beltway apologists, most of who are Democratic aparatchiks.

Until we burn those parasites off our party we will remain merely the lesser of two evils, rather than the cure.

 

[busterman62]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

This is all a party has when it is backed into a corner.

Are you honestly arguing Hillary is not the lesser of two evils?

Because that's really all politics is ever about.

Whenever Scooby links his political quadrant test, I end up dead center, one box left or one box right depending on which way the wind blows. I'm a righty on this board only due to the distribution curve heavily weighed to the left. Also, in my state there is no party registration requirement and I don't belong to one. So, I'm not here to represent any party, just my opinions.

Is Hillary the lesser of the two evils? Without question. Does that mean she is not evil? IMO, no. That's all I'm trying to get across. I've voted for what I thought was the lesser of the two evils (GWB) and regret it. I won't do it again. In my state (solid blue) it's a moot point anyway so I can stick by my principles. Others can't and I respect that but don't try and convince me that since the canned dog food you're giving me is more palatable than the dry version that I'm actually getting a filet.

 

[burd]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Whenever Scooby links his political quadrant test, I end up dead center, one box left or one box right depending on which way the wind blows. I'm a righty on this board only due to the distribution curve heavily weighed to the left. Also, in my state there is no party registration requirement and I don't belong to one. So, I'm not here to represent any party, just my opinions.

Is Hillary the lesser of the two evils? Without question. Does that mean she is not evil? IMO, no. That's all I'm trying to get across. I've voted for what I thought was the lesser of the two evils (GWB) and regret it. I won't do it again. In my state (solid blue) it's a moot point anyway so I can stick by my principles. Others can't and I respect that but don't try and convince me that since the canned dog food you're giving me is more palatable than the dry version that I'm actually getting a filet.

Buster, did you vote for GWB both times? There was a difference in kind, IMO.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Because originally you tagged a far greater portion of the crisis as being the result of govt policy to allow more low income people to buy houses. As has been posted by several people, this would have been a microscopic cause of the total crisis, which was private lenders having nothing to do with govt influence giving out loans they shouldn't have to people who shouldn't have been asking for them. You originally went down this path to criticize Bill Clinton but its falling short on this issue. Govt policy had very, very little to do with the mortgage crisis, and by chance or design you are parroting the right wing talking point that is used to blame minorities for something they aren't responsible for.

Yeah because heaven forbid a world where people actually have some personal responsibility to figure out if they can really pay back money they are borrowing.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Yeah because heaven forbid a world where people actually have some personal responsibility to figure out if they can really pay back money they are borrowing.

Yeah, you missed the point made in the whole movie and book. Unreal.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Whenever Scooby links his political quadrant test, I end up dead center, one box left or one box right depending on which way the wind blows. I'm a righty on this board only due to the distribution curve heavily weighed to the left.

You have my sympathy. I remember remarking to a close friend that by going from taking classes at Harvard to a PhD program at Stanford I went from "far right" to "far left" in one weekend.

 

[busterman62]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Buster, did you vote for GWB both times? There was a difference in kind, IMO.

Regrettably, yes.

"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free"

Now I'm out of the box

 

[French Rage]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

You have my sympathy. I remember remarking to a close friend that by going from taking classes at Harvard to a PhD program at Stanford I went from "far right" to "far left" in one weekend.

(This is what the kids call a "humble-brag. )

 

[busterman62]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

You have my sympathy. I remember remarking to a close friend that by going from taking classes at Harvard to a PhD program at Stanford I went from "far right" to "far left" in one weekend.

It's part of the reason to hang out here. At work I'm on the left.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Yeah because heaven forbid a world where people actually have some personal responsibility to figure out if they can really pay back money they are borrowing.

SJH: the thesis of the book and the movie made from it, well supported by empirical data, is that the financial institutions perpetuated a fraud against everyone -- homeowners and downstream investors alike. The accusation against the homeowners translates to the following: "don't trust banks and brokerage firms offering financial services; they are criminals who have bought off the regulatory agencies."

In a sane world, the officials of those companies would have gone to jail for decades. Only their connections with the Bush and Obama administrations saved them from prosecution.