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Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

And I do believe that you're missing some of the point the article. It isn't that liberalism is wrong in its end goals/conclusions on what will make America better, it's about changing the method of how you go about disseminating that point of view. Instead of taking a smug route, take the time to discuss with those lesser beings so you can help them understand. Don't spend time giving each other the wink-and-nod of righteousness, rather try reaching out and re-establishing a rapport with the masses. Most of all, when doing this, there has to be not only sincerity in meeting the end goal, but also intent and empathy. That latter two are where the liberal elites lose the masses, because it's often seen as the elites spouting off just to make themselves feel better about being superior, not a true desire to help.

Yes, that was what I took from the article.

Everyone is "smug" in that everyone constructs a worldview where they just accidentally turn out to have the most of whatever their particular currency of righteousness (intellect, learning, godliness, salt of the earth common sense, yadda yadda) is. But basically smugness smells worse when it comes from an advantaged group -- rich hipsters' smugness makes people want to bash their faces in, so does the smugness of rich Republicans going a week on food stamps and saying "see, that wasn't so hard..", or the smugness of rich countries telling poor countries "No! Fossil fuels are bad!!!"

We as liberals understand the issue with all those examples, but we're blind to it when we come to our own brand, which has become a highly lucrative portion of the general economy and culture.

Still, it wouldn't be so bad if we weren't trying to do stuff like, you know, win elections and get policies enacted. We are continually frustrated by rural whites voting for massive military budgets, but we never stop to think that the economy we have served up to them gives them exactly one major employer who offers a decent future: the military. Our response to having the advantage of access to comparative economic data which shows that higher marginal tax rates reduce poverty is to spend 1% of our time trying to pass that message along in an effective way to people who don't have the advantage of being able to spend all day researching on the internet, and 99% of our time responding to or thinking up witty memes that makes fun of them for cutting their own throats. And it's a case of, "did I say that out loud?" Used to be you could slag people all you wanted in private (god knows what rich Republicans say about their poor brethren behind closed doors), but now everything is viewable by everyone. The ideal is not to be a tool, but if one must be a tool, at least be circumspect. ;)

That article really cut me hard. I see myself as exactly who he is talking about. It doesn't mean we're worse than the other side -- the Grievance Right earns a comfortable Beltway living ginning up dumb memes that make fun of "New York values" or extoll "Marine Corps Todd" or any amount of equivalent idiocy -- but again, we can only control what we do, and the more they do that the better because they in turn alienate anyone not in their club. In this environment, empathy is the new market inefficiency.

There must be ways to be effective and constructive. It doesn't, as the author points out, mean being less aggressive. In fact it means being moreso in some ways, since mockery is just a safe way of exchanging passwords with like-thinking people without doing any of the hard work of talking to somebody who disagrees with you and who you want to engage seriously with. If you're being insulting they're going to rightfully tell you to f-ck off. But by being respectful while being firm and coherent in your explanations of your reasoning, you make yourself vulnerable -- they'll challenge you too, after all. Plus, it is uncomfortable to trace truths you may have settled on long ago all the way back to first principles, on the fly, to participate in arguments that don't follow a logician's rules but spring from your interlocutor's personal experience. And so often the arguments seem to be confusing and mutually awkward, because if you both shared exactly the same premises and valuations and rhetorical rules you would likely not be of opposing view points.

We see people being lazy on the other side all the time, just mindlessly copy-pasting righty memes from Red State or Hot Air and then disingenuously claiming them as "troubling" or "interesting" or any of the other nonsense words of loaded rhetoric and propaganda. We attack that and we know it's dumb. Why, then, do it ourselves? Be it feels really good. :p

But it doesn't work, so there's got to be a better way.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Ted has an interesting web ad. The actors / actresses are very good.

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Regarding the employment of Bernie in an HRC campaign. Will the Clinton campaign be guilty of hubris and think they can win it on their own??
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Honestly, as I read that essay my first thought was we should just make it a "sticky" in Cafe, then discontinue the political threads.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

This whole essay is brilliant and makes my blood run cold.

Beginning in the middle of the 20th century, the working class, once the core of the coalition, began abandoning the Democratic Party. In 1948, in the immediate wake of the Franklin Roosevelt, 66 percent of manual laborers voted for Democrats, along with 60 percent of farmers. In 1964, it was 55 percent of working-class voters. By 1980, it was 35 percent.

ctrl-f "Southern Strategy" - not found

Stopped reading there.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Honestly, as I read that essay my first thought was we should just make it a "sticky" in Cafe, then discontinue the political threads.

Well, one of two stickies. One could write something similar, though obviously not exactly the same, about the affectations of conservatives.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Well, one of two stickies. One could write something similar, though obviously not exactly the same, about the affectations of conservatives.

stop it.

this isn't news either. mookie knows he been observing that for a long time. D always tries to tell you they know what's better for you. if anything R is the exact opposite with their policies. R says, "here, keep more of your money and good luck".
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

This whole essay is brilliant and makes my blood run cold.

I can recall as far back as 2000, my mom describing the "oh-so-much-smarter-than-you Democrats". And she's voted Democrat in a majority of the elections held since 1974. :p

I think there is a distinction to be made this year though. I don't care how "anti-establishment" he comes off as to some folks - to anyone with a brain, Trump is a bald-faced charlatan. I give a pass to the Cruzers, who are presumably voting with their Bibles. At least they're supporting the only semi-honest Republican left in the race.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

I can recall as far back as 2000, my mom describing the "oh-so-much-smarter-than-you Democrats". And she's voted Democrat in a majority of the elections held since 1974. :p

I think there is a distinction to be made this year though. I don't care how "anti-establishment" he comes off as to some folks - to anyone with a brain, Trump is a bald-faced charlatan. I give a pass to the Cruzers, who are presumably voting with their Bibles. At least they're supporting the only semi-honest Republican left in the race.

In a word, liberals are smug, conservatives are sanctimonious. Whichever side can reverse that most effectively will have a better shot at casual voters.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Reagan lost Latinos 40-60.
Dubya lost Latinos 35-65.
Drumpf? Try some piping hot 10-90.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

The first one is essential. Outside of The Clintonistas no one likes DWS. Bring back Howard Dean his strategy and leadership was awesome and I doubt Bernie has any issues with him. Your second idea is great too...have Bernie out there drumming up support from the Progressives. Use the fact that quite a large percentage like him and his ideas to push forth the Dem agenda country wide.

I was thinking that myself, but I'm not sure how well Dean and Sanders get along even though they're from the same state. If Sanders pushed for replacing DWS with Howard Dean, I would come out this here message board and take back every negative thing I've said about the man!


Regarding the smugness article, as a pretty smug guy myself I wasn't as big of a fan of it. Author seemed to gloss over too much and it read like the Nixon Eastern Elite manifesto from the late 60's - early 70's. Also as bronco alluded to the Southern Strategy as well as the whole Lee Atwater model for campaigning made elections for many people not about holding politicians accountable for things they can control but more about racial, religious and moral litmus tests.

I think people are making this a lot more complicated than it is. When the Greatest Generation was dominant, liberalism thrived as they saw the need for govt intervention in the Great Depression, and international alliances and shared sacrifice of WWII. After them came whiny self centered Baby Boomers who saw none of that. As they hit the voting pool in the 70's and 80's (only the oldest boomers would have been 21 in time for the '68 elections) you started seeing Republicans on the upswing as they spoke to the "me, first" generation. Now that generation is fading along with the older Silent Generation as the Gen X'ers identify with the Clinton Presidency and Millennials want to go even more left, so the Democrats have now outvoted the GOP in 5 out of 6 Presidential contests. Its not a matter of talking down, talking up, or talking sideways. Its generational and demographic.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend, but he might be willing to hold the bastard down while I kick him.
 
stop it.

this isn't news either. mookie knows he been observing that for a long time. D always tries to tell you they know what's better for you. if anything R is the exact opposite with their policies. R says, "here, keep more of your money and good luck".
It has always seemed to me that R simply figured out how well it worked to tell people "here, keep your money" and, at the same time, promoting policies the ensured they would have less to keep.

The low to middle income earners, at least.
 
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