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Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
- Thread starter joecct
- Start date
I would see what the UAW had to offer and if they played hardball I'd look into changing the law. Not too much more complicated than that. I'm guessing they'd be thrilled to have more workers.
Regarding their selling point, the fact that the workforce may be aging means the city/state need to get off their @ ss then and get it done.
Regarding forecasting 30 years out, I've never known a company that went further than 5 years out, and those out years were always a stretch. 30 years from now factories might be building flying cars, or the transporter from Star Trek might be invented. While I don't work in the car industry, I highly doubt they're looking that long term at every facility. At some point it stops becoming worth it to analyze every possible outcome 100 years into the future.
Twitch Boy
Defacing this tagline is a MAX foul
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
Coca-Cola's business plan supposedly goes out 500 years. No idea what's in it.
Coca-Cola's business plan supposedly goes out 500 years. No idea what's in it.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
They're working on it. "Simple" matter has been transported 18 inches. http://gizmodo.com/205448/beam-me-up-scotty-scientists-transport-a-hunk-of-matter-18-inches
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Scott Adams covered this great in one of his books. He wrote that people don't realize its your co-workers who will be operating the transporter - the same people who won't refill the coffee maker and refuse to flush the toilet. People will be getting beamed into walls and office furniture left and right.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
I've read several books about Detroit of late:
Mark Binelli's Detroit City Is the Place to Be: The Afterlife of an American Metropolis
A look at current Detroit from the streets, from those stuck there, to those trying to make a change, with some history thrown in. Binelli grew up outside of Detroit, but his father ran a business in the city. Binelli returns to Detroit (lives in the city) in '09 untiil '12 to write the book.
John Gallagher's Reimagining Detroit: Opportunities for Redefining an American City
An academic look at Detroit's problems and ways to turn things around, with examples from other cities.
Charlie LeDuff's Detroit: An American Autopsy
Similar to Binelli's book, but a little more raw. LeDuff, like Binelli, grew up just outside of Detroit (his mother ran a flower shop in the city when he grew up) but returns to Detroit, working for the Detroit News after a stint with The New York Times. He is mostly fearless and tries to uncover as much of the corruption, vice and inequality as one person is capable of.
And, although not specifically about Detroit, Greg Grandin's Fordlandia: The Rise and Fall of Henry Ford's Forgotten Jungle City
A fascinating and disturbing look at Ford Motor Company trying to establish a boomtown rubber plantation in the middle of the Amazon in the late 1920s and 1930s.
These are all very good reads for any of you interested.
I've read several books about Detroit of late:
Mark Binelli's Detroit City Is the Place to Be: The Afterlife of an American Metropolis
A look at current Detroit from the streets, from those stuck there, to those trying to make a change, with some history thrown in. Binelli grew up outside of Detroit, but his father ran a business in the city. Binelli returns to Detroit (lives in the city) in '09 untiil '12 to write the book.
John Gallagher's Reimagining Detroit: Opportunities for Redefining an American City
An academic look at Detroit's problems and ways to turn things around, with examples from other cities.
Charlie LeDuff's Detroit: An American Autopsy
Similar to Binelli's book, but a little more raw. LeDuff, like Binelli, grew up just outside of Detroit (his mother ran a flower shop in the city when he grew up) but returns to Detroit, working for the Detroit News after a stint with The New York Times. He is mostly fearless and tries to uncover as much of the corruption, vice and inequality as one person is capable of.
And, although not specifically about Detroit, Greg Grandin's Fordlandia: The Rise and Fall of Henry Ford's Forgotten Jungle City
A fascinating and disturbing look at Ford Motor Company trying to establish a boomtown rubber plantation in the middle of the Amazon in the late 1920s and 1930s.
These are all very good reads for any of you interested.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
Sadly, the end of a great series of spoofs of the "Pure Michigan" tourism ad campaign, performed by John Kerfoot. A fitting ending nonetheless.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4Jb8ZusO6R8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Sadly, the end of a great series of spoofs of the "Pure Michigan" tourism ad campaign, performed by John Kerfoot. A fitting ending nonetheless.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4Jb8ZusO6R8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
the state of Michigan is right to work, it was put in by the republicans last year. no way it leaves.
The Packard plant was sold last month to someone who is re developing it.
The city actually hit bottom a couple of years ago, now days things have turned around, but it was so far down that it will take a really long time for it to get back. One of the other problems( other than the schools) is the city income tax, which needs to go away.
But for the first time in decades the city has opened it's eyes to what is required to be competitive and is taking steps to implement things needed to make it happen. There was a very good article on it in the ny times about a month ago.
Looking at the demographics of the population of the city, education is the most glaring deficiency. In stark contrast to the demographics of the metro area. Even so, the education of the average city resident is higher than the average mississippi resident.
the state of Michigan is right to work, it was put in by the republicans last year. no way it leaves.
The Packard plant was sold last month to someone who is re developing it.
The city actually hit bottom a couple of years ago, now days things have turned around, but it was so far down that it will take a really long time for it to get back. One of the other problems( other than the schools) is the city income tax, which needs to go away.
But for the first time in decades the city has opened it's eyes to what is required to be competitive and is taking steps to implement things needed to make it happen. There was a very good article on it in the ny times about a month ago.
Looking at the demographics of the population of the city, education is the most glaring deficiency. In stark contrast to the demographics of the metro area. Even so, the education of the average city resident is higher than the average mississippi resident.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
Well, that certainly slid under my radar. You're right...http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/03/28/right-to-work-law-takes-effect-in-michigan/
Well, that certainly slid under my radar. You're right...http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/03/28/right-to-work-law-takes-effect-in-michigan/
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
A professor who teaches bankruptcy law at UPenn Law School has an informative article in today's Wall Street Journal. The excerpt below discusses whether municipal workers will have to take a haircut on their pensions and retiree health benefits or not.
There also is an extensive in-depth discussion about how conflicting legal claims intersect, and other pending and resolved municipal bankruptcy situations.
A professor who teaches bankruptcy law at UPenn Law School has an informative article in today's Wall Street Journal. The excerpt below discusses whether municipal workers will have to take a haircut on their pensions and retiree health benefits or not.
There also is an extensive in-depth discussion about how conflicting legal claims intersect, and other pending and resolved municipal bankruptcy situations.
Good article. I always wondered why existing pensions never get touched. Looks like there's some legal provisions behind that. Also the author brings up a good point, which is are these pensions extravagant or not? In Mass some specific pensions (the subway system for example) are ridiculous, so much so that when Gov Deval (Devalue) Patrick tried to raise taxes through the roof for transportation people rightly balked as its seen as a payoff to these layabouts (the "T" workers, as its called, are the laziest creatures on God's green Earth).
Why I bring this up is because municipal restructuring when pensions are overly generous is easy. Doing so when the retirement payments are modest opens up a lot more questions.
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
Detroit does raise a lot of interesting questions. I've heard somewhere that states can't declare bankruptcy, but I wonder if that would stand if a state every actually tried to do that?
Agreed. I wonder if they'd ever restructure a pension plan in a way that the highest earners on the plan take the hardest hit? There's been some fighting here in Arizona about reforming pension plans for folks like legislators, judges, etc. who have a pension plan separate from the rest of state employees, and not surprisingly, much more generous. There's also been talk with municipalities, including Phoenix, of reforming pensions so certain folks can't spike their pension through various means in the last year or two of employment, giving them a lot bigger pension than what they'd get based on what they earned the rest of their career.
Detroit does raise a lot of interesting questions. I've heard somewhere that states can't declare bankruptcy, but I wonder if that would stand if a state every actually tried to do that?
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
it's never "easy." Central Falls, RI restructured "modest" payments to existing retirees, and they signed off on it, so it never became legal precedent since it wasn't contested in court. For them it made a lot of sense: something is better than nothing.
The "best" way to restructure pensions is to wall off existing vested defined benefit accruals from one plan and then to start everyone from that date forward on a new defined contribution plan. Second-best is to wall off existing workers and have all new hires start on a defined contribution plan. These are the strategies that appear to be favored by the majority of union members from state and local governments.
The problem is that the union leaders won't go along with what is in the best interests of existing union members. There is a serious conflict of interest here between union leaders, who want to maximize dues revenues; and current union members, whose highest priority is to protect what they already have and don't want to see it put at risk by extending it too much further.
I'd much rather make sure my existing pension is fully funded before putting a single penny into a new hire's pension while leaving mine underfunded.
While the news is about pensions, the real problem is retiree healthcare, not pensions. That is where the real serious liability resides.
it's never "easy." Central Falls, RI restructured "modest" payments to existing retirees, and they signed off on it, so it never became legal precedent since it wasn't contested in court. For them it made a lot of sense: something is better than nothing.
The "best" way to restructure pensions is to wall off existing vested defined benefit accruals from one plan and then to start everyone from that date forward on a new defined contribution plan. Second-best is to wall off existing workers and have all new hires start on a defined contribution plan. These are the strategies that appear to be favored by the majority of union members from state and local governments.
The problem is that the union leaders won't go along with what is in the best interests of existing union members. There is a serious conflict of interest here between union leaders, who want to maximize dues revenues; and current union members, whose highest priority is to protect what they already have and don't want to see it put at risk by extending it too much further.
I'd much rather make sure my existing pension is fully funded before putting a single penny into a new hire's pension while leaving mine underfunded.
While the news is about pensions, the real problem is retiree healthcare, not pensions. That is where the real serious liability resides.
Re: Call Detroit. Tell them bankrupt!!!
True. At least for those governmental entities that offer health care coverage for retirees, which isn't done everywhere. I believe in Detroit the health care number was a lot higher than the pension number. By like a few billion.While the news is about pensions, the real problem is retiree healthcare, not pensions. That is where the real serious liability resides.