Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

I’m less concerned about the 45k he pulled out of his *** and more with the fact that his plan penalizes single income families that make the same as dual income families

Simple solution to that. Married Filing Jointly. Set the 45K at 90K. Done.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

I’m less concerned about the 45k he pulled out of his *** and more with the fact that his plan penalizes single income families that make the same as dual income families

The point isn't any particular x, it's that there is an x. joe will want to drive x down to reduce the impact on the wealthy; I will want to raise x to maximize upwards redistribution. The idea of indexing x to local cost of living is a nod to the fact that x in Westchester County, New York doesn't go as far as x in Bumpkinville, North Agraria. But it's negotiable.

I think we could also allow exemptions for brats (politically we would have to), but that breaks the no exemption model so that's a tougher negotiation.

The idea is create a tax code that prevents the rich from hiding, hoarding, and flat out stealing. It's really just that simple.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

I’m less concerned about the 45k he pulled out of his *** and more with the fact that his plan penalizes single income families that make the same as dual income families

Nothing punishes it more than the FICA tax. But, whatever.

 

[alfablue]

The point isn't any particular x, it's that there is an x. joe will want to drive x down to reduce the impact on the wealthy; I will want to raise x to maximize upwards redistribution. The idea of indexing x to local cost of living is a nod to the fact that x in Westchester County, New York doesn't go as far as x in Bumpkinville, North Agraria. But it's negotiable.

I think we could also allow exemptions for brats (politically we would have to), but that breaks the no exemption model so that's a tougher negotiation.

The idea is create a tax code that prevents the rich from hiding, hoarding, and flat out stealing. It's really just that simple.

1) treat all income the same
2) eliminate deductions than 90% of the public have no way to meet

That should take care of most problems.

Progressive tax works fine when it’s allowed to work.

 

[mookie1995]

1) treat all income the same
2) eliminate deductions than 90% of the public have no way to meet

That should take care of most problems.

Progressive tax works fine when it’s allowed to work.

Well the whole D social engineering tax treatment is set up for odd things to fear behavior. From solar tax credits to pinpointed deductions. Start small and encourage. Al gore's "I want to start a back to school retraining credit..."
People who work don't have interest in that. They want to spend times with their families and not go back to night school.

You are moving away from your parties playbook doing that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Well the whole D social engineering tax treatment is set up for odd things to fear behavior.

I have read this sentence six times and I still can't parse it.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Simple solution to that. Married Filing Jointly. Set the 45K at 90K. Done.

yes, but in Joe's world everyone has to file single.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

yes, but in Joe's world everyone has to file single.

Another thing we can allow. Let the family be the unit of filing if the filer prefers it to be. If you file jointly you just double the exemption, 2x, whatever x is.

Here's a thought experiment. It might get out of hand and I don't know where it will go.

Let there be two numbers: x and y. x is the deduction for a person of workforce age, say, 18-68 if not in school fulltime. y is other. Set y = x/2.

Now for collective filing you can file for: yourself, your spouse if they live with you, your direct relatives if they live with you or if they are in school fulltime. Define direct relatives however you want, but let's start with: kids and parents of self and/or spouse.

What does that do?

Let's say I live with my wife, our 1 kid, her 1 kid, and my wife's mother. That gives me a deduction of 2x + 3y = 3.5x.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Open to all sorts of tax tinkering. But must be guaranteed revenue neutral. There's this easily forgettable little thing called debt.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Open to all sorts of tax tinkering. But must be guaranteed revenue neutral. There's this easily forgettable little thing called debt.

A wealth tax that is paid only by the rich balances the budget every year. The rich are incentified to pay their income tax because every dollar they steal evading the front end income tax costs them 2 dollars on the back end wealth tax.

 

[alfablue]

Well the whole D social engineering tax treatment is set up for odd things to fear behavior. From solar tax credits to pinpointed deductions. Start small and encourage. Al gore's "I want to start a back to school retraining credit..."
People who work don't have interest in that. They want to spend times with their families and not go back to night school.

You are moving away from your parties playbook doing that.

As long as corporate subsidies to oil and coal end, too.

Lots of “social engineering” is also done to keep people spending money, since most of the beneficiaries don’t earn enough to save, so all of that goes directly floating through the economy. Saving money without the intent to spend is bad for the economy. At least the one we have set up.

Besides, just simplifying the tax code does not mean all welfare ends.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Lots of “social engineering” is also done to keep people spending money, since most of the beneficiaries don’t earn enough to save, so all of that goes directly floating through the economy. Saving money without the intent to spend is bad for the economy. At least the one we have set up.

Besides, just simplifying the tax code does not mean all welfare ends.

Are you really saying this in the context of the average worker? Cause right now Corporate profits are at an all time high, Corporations are sitting on Trillions of dollars, AND they plan on using the tax cut for stock buybacks and debt reduction.

The average worker spends all their money.

 

[joecct]

I’m less concerned about the 45k he pulled out of his *** and more with the fact that his plan penalizes single income families that make the same as dual income families

No more families in tax land, only tax payers. It is called an *income* tax after all. No income, no tax.

Also, by having just a single (income earner) filing status, you get away from the penalty of unmarried couples living together, polymory families, "the marriage penalty", etc.

By giving every taxpayer a large (indexed) standard deduction, you eliminate a lot of filers and paperwork.

Is it a utopian tax plan? Nope. But I feel that it is a darn sight better than what we currently have and will have.

 

[alfablue]

No more families in tax land, only tax payers. It is called an *income* tax after all. No income, no tax.

Also, by having just a single (income earner) filing status, you get away from the penalty of unmarried couples living together, polymory families, "the marriage penalty", etc.

By giving every taxpayer a large (indexed) standard deduction, you eliminate a lot of filers and paperwork.

Is it a utopian tax plan? Nope. But I feel that it is a darn sight better than what we currently have and will have.

How is it better? You tax single income families considerably more than dual income families. That seems like a terrible idea from both a family option standpoint and the impact on the worker pool size.

And no breaks for kids? I thought you hated abortions, but this could increase it thanks to the cost.

Seems like a worse structure by a wide margin.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

How is it better? You tax single income families considerably more than dual income families. That seems like a terrible idea from both a family option standpoint and the impact on the worker pool size.

And no breaks for kids? I thought you hated abortions, but this could increase it thanks to the cost.

Seems like a worse structure by a wide margin.

Yeah, and skimming 12% off the top from every worker in America is better.

 

[alfablue]

Are you really saying this in the context of the average worker? Cause right now Corporate profits are at an all time high, Corporations are sitting on Trillions of dollars, AND they plan on using the tax cut for stock buybacks and debt reduction.

The average worker spends all their money.

My “social engineering” is social security and Medicare. Not corporate hand outs. SS money goes right into the economy.

 

[alfablue]

Yeah, and skimming 12% off the top from every worker in America is better.

Progressive tax rates work fine, as far as I’m concerned.

Treat income all the same, and reduce the kinds of odd deductions. That will fix most of the issues.

Other than rich people being mad.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

My “social engineering” is social security and Medicare. Not corporate hand outs. SS money goes right into the economy.

That's not social engineering. Most of that money was going into the economy in the first place.

 

[joecct]

How is it better? You tax single income families considerably more than dual income families. That seems like a terrible idea from both a family option standpoint and the impact on the worker pool size.

And no breaks for kids? I thought you hated abortions, but this could increase it thanks to the cost.

Seems like a worse structure by a wide margin.

The tax code is, in reality, a social engineering code. Our plan returns it to revenue generation.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

The tax code is, in reality, a social engineering code. Our plan returns it to revenue generation.

Everything is "social engineering." You think laissez-faire isn't social engineering? There is no natural baseline from which policies artificially diverge. Everything is negotiated the instant people begin to live in groups.

"Social engineering" is an empty catch phrase.