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Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

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dxmnkd316 said:
It is. Same with NFTs.
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To me it seems like buying crypto currencies you basically get like a blank word file and when you buy an NFT you get a word file with some random drawing in it or whatever. It’s hard to believe we are allowing people to waste electricity on a large scale for these.
 
Drew S. said:
To me it seems like buying crypto currencies you basically get like a blank word file and when you buy an NFT you get a word file with some random drawing in it or whatever. It’s hard to believe we are allowing people to waste electricity on a large scale for these.
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It's another massive humanity failure where we have placed profit over the planet.
 
Drew S. said:
To me it seems like buying crypto currencies you basically get like a blank word file and when you buy an NFT you get a word file with some random drawing in it or whatever. It’s hard to believe we are allowing people to waste electricity on a large scale for these.
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NFTs are even worse. You're not buying the image. You're buying a certificate that says here's the link to an image and that image is stored on someone else's server. Worse yet, I can just right-click and save it.

Best way I've seen NFTs described:
E0Kr0pGXsAIdw1d
 
NFTs are dumb. Crypto is different but needs to ramp up the methods of producing and using them that aren't environmentally dangerous. There are some and more are being developed. Not everything is like Bitcoin...
 
Handyman said:
NFTs are dumb. Crypto is different but needs to ramp up the methods of producing and using them that aren't environmentally dangerous. There are some and more are being developed. Not everything is like Bitcoin...
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Also they need a way to convert crypto to USD in any amount quickly. Because having 100k ethereum is useless when I want to buy a yacht.
 
JF_Gophers said:
Also they need a way to convert crypto to USD in any amount quickly. Because having 100k ethereum is useless when I want to buy a yacht.
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Coinbase does it. (obviously not in that amount) They also have a Visa card you can use to buy things with your crypto :^) (and earn rewards)
 
It's all a scam and awful for the environment. Even the "2.0" coins that are only really shi-tty for the environment instead of really, really, really shi-tty.

Tether, the supposed stablecoin that is used to essentially convert bitcoin to USD and back is supposed to be backed by cash. Filings show that something like 10% of the value of it is backed by cash and the rest by Other including half by commercial paper.

Crypto solves absolutely zero of the problems that fiat currency has with the added benefit of melting the ice caps. It's not regulated and has zero safety net. There is no backing to any of the cryptos unlike a USD or GBP, for example.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
It's all a scam and awful for the environment. Even the "2.0" coins that are only really shi-tty for the environment instead of really, really, really shi-tty.

Tether, the supposed stablecoin that is used to essentially convert bitcoin to USD and back is supposed to be backed by cash. Filings show that something like 10% of the value of it is backed by cash and the rest by Other including half by commercial paper.

Crypto solves absolutely zero of the problems that fiat currency has with the added benefit of melting the ice caps. It's not regulated and has zero safety net. There is no backing to any of the cryptos unlike a USD or GBP, for example.
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First of all, no one uses Tether there are other stable coins including USDC. (US Dollar Coin) Again don't equate Bitcoin to all Crypto.

Second the Proof of Stake coins are not that bad from everything I read. They require no mining. (still the dumbest term for what is happening but not important) Not all 2.0 is going to that sadly but Ethereum will be which will shift a lot of the market. Bitcoin never will because it is valued way too high. Doge is looking at it. The smaller penny stock coins aren't really mined anyways.

jf,

No clue you would have to check the user agreement on Coinbase. For the CC I don't think there is a limit since it is just a debit card that uses your Crypto as the currency.
 
Handyman said:
First of all, no one uses Tether there are other stable coins including USDC. (US Dollar Coin) Again don't equate Bitcoin to all Crypto.

Second the Proof of Stake coins are not that bad from everything I read. They require no mining. (still the dumbest term for what is happening but not important) Not all 2.0 is going to that sadly but Ethereum will be which will shift a lot of the market. Bitcoin never will because it is valued way too high. Doge is looking at it. The smaller penny stock coins aren't really mined anyways.

jf,

No clue you would have to check the user agreement on Coinbase. For the CC I don't think there is a limit since it is just a debit card that uses your Crypto as the currency.
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Except they do. Tether to and from BTC makes up something like 90% of the transactions for BTC. You might not hold it, but you need it. it's sort of like the reserve currency of BTC and most of the other cryptos. It's what provides the liquidity to the crypto market. There aren't a lot of vendors who transact directly in BTC. It's way too expensive. Like, $50-60+ per transaction. Instead, when you agree to pay in BTC it's completed in a stablecoin and then at the end of whatever arbitrary period (second, minute, hour, day, week, quarter, etc.) the parties will do a single transaction to settle everything in BTC or whatever other currency you're "transacting" in. Without Tether, the cost of doing that transaction is insane. If you buy a $50 ticket to the Mavericks basketball game in BTC because Mark Cuban is edgy, you'd end up paying a $60 transaction fee on top of everything just to buy it in BTC.

It would be like trying to buy bread with plutonium. Uh, yeah, sure. You can give me plutonium for this Snickers bar, but I need at LEAST $100 in plutonium. Tether prevents massive devaluation in the BTC market. And Tether is absolutely going to result in almost everyone behind it going to jail.

Proof of stake doesn't really help either. It's essentially a more hip version of ACH or similar systems. Where the big fish get to decide who owns what. The problem is, you're still spending a ton of energy (even 0.1% of 60-100 TWh is a lot given the size of it). And worse yet, it's still not backed by anything. Be it commodity or nation-state power.
 
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Evergrande and Kaisa In All Sorts of Trouble

Ratings agency Fitch downgraded property developers China Evergrande Group and Kaisa Group on Thursday, saying they had defaulted on offshore bonds, while a source said Kaisa had started work on restructuring its $12 billion offshore debt.

The downgrades to so-called "restricted default" status come even though Evergrande(3333.HK) and Kaisa(1638.HK) have not officially announced defaults that could result in drawn-out debt restructuring processes.

The fate of Evergrande, which has more than $300 billion in liabilities, and other indebted Chinese property companies has gripped financial markets in recent months amid fears of knock-on effects around the world, although Beijing has repeatedly sought to reassure investors.

In its note on Evergrande, Fitch said the developer did not respond to its request for confirmation on coupon payments worth $82.5 million that were due last month, with the 30-day grace period ending this week, and so assumed "they were not paid."
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The last shoe to drop will be a depression. China looks like they are ready to trigger one.
 
psych said:
Will this make the covid drop from early 2020 look like child’s play, or will it not be as bad as that?
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Hard to tell. but I don't think we'll see a 10%-30% drop in GDP worldwide like covid. And keep in mind, the central banks and governments did everything they could to inject cash. Which prevented COVID from being worse than 2008.

Back in08... Subprime mortgages were over $1T and total mortgage debt was $10T. 10% of all mortgages went into default so ~$1T. Which doesn't even take into account the MBS and CDS markets. Which were measured in the $10s of trillions.

So some of these banks needed to raise $100s of billions EACH (Lehman was $600B alone) to satisfy the requirements of the MBSs and CDOs. This is bad, but it's not 2008 bad. 2008 was apocalyptic.

So this could be bad. $300B by one company (Evergrande is the largest real estate corp on earth) is a lot. But in the end, I don't think we know. Nor will we until the bubble bursts and you have to untangle the financial mess. The untangling usually requires government intervention to maintain liquidity.

I'm sure St Clown would have better insights.
 
Depends who you listen to and how bad it gets. Lest we forget that China owns a lot of debt around the world and they basically prop up their economy. If these companies go under it could be a Lehman like disaster and if it drags China down that will be felt around the world. You would almost certainly see the markets panic.

The question will be how will countries (especially us) react to it. If we can mitigate the damage fast we will ride it out with a likely recession of sorts. If we are unable to (which I would think would be more because Europe would not be able to) then it is tough to know.

The issue is China is just a huge unknown when it comes to certain aspects of their economy. If this was the EU then we would know more what to expect.
 
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