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Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

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So you asked for a car and Fox asked for a pony. I don't ever remember hearing of a lawsuit where a competent defense team did NOT ask for immediate dismissal.

Only time will tell....

Yeah, I don't expect any cases will be dismissed right out of the gate.

But defamation cases are a nasty affair, especially when you are dealing with a media defendant. Media members and companies are rightfully afforded great protection. There are questions relating to whether the plaintiffs are "public figures." There are questions relating to whether the statements are really statements of fact, or statements of opinion. Then Fox will claim they are reporting what Giuliani and the others were arguing in court and out of it, which is certainly newsworthy. The individuals, who are lawyers, will claim that their statements and arguments in court are privileged and not subject to defamation claims, and their statements to the press were simply a recitation of their privileged court arguments.

Then you can get into the whole reputation problem. When someone sues for defamation, the facts of the case essentially become, "how dirty are you?" So every piece of crap, every lawsuit, every claim by a former employee, etc..., that could have tarnished these companies reputations will be publicly aired.

Then, and only then, do we get to the question of damages, which FS23 and I will just have to agree to disagree on. I think they are going to have to prove actual damages if they want to get anything beyond that, because the courthouse steps are littered with defamation cases where plaintiffs proved little or no actual damages but got a huge award based upon some sort of harm to their reputation, only to see appeals courts strip it all away.
 
Moral hazard is actually the correct term. If people think that they can have their debt erased when the next wave of stimulus comes through, that could create a situation where they take on more debt than they otherwise would need. So if the student needed $15k for tuition this year, s/he may take out $25k with the hopes that either the whole debt is erased, or enough of the debt is erased that the student can then still afford to pay off the remainder. It's not the pursuit of education that's the moral hazard, it's how people treat the debt process that creates the moral hazard.

Its the right term but it is BS. The moral hazard is never an issue when we bail out the banks or other companies. It is just a buzz word now that people use trying to sound like they care.
 
Yeah, I don't expect any cases will be dismissed right out of the gate.

But defamation cases are a nasty affair, especially when you are dealing with a media defendant. Media members and companies are rightfully afforded great protection. There are questions relating to whether the plaintiffs are "public figures." There are questions relating to whether the statements are really statements of fact, or statements of opinion. Then Fox will claim they are reporting what Giuliani and the others were arguing in court and out of it, which is certainly newsworthy. The individuals, who are lawyers, will claim that their statements and arguments in court are privileged and not subject to defamation claims, and their statements to the press were simply a recitation of their privileged court arguments.

Then you can get into the whole reputation problem. When someone sues for defamation, the facts of the case essentially become, "how dirty are you?" So every piece of crap, every lawsuit, every claim by a former employee, etc..., that could have tarnished these companies reputations will be publicly aired.

Then, and only then, do we get to the question of damages, which FS23 and I will just have to agree to disagree on. I think they are going to have to prove actual damages if they want to get anything beyond that, because the courthouse steps are littered with defamation cases where plaintiffs proved little or no actual damages but got a huge award based upon some sort of harm to their reputation, only to see appeals courts strip it all away.

I'll ask again SJHovey...not sure how many defamation cases you have been involved in, or litigated, but I would be interested in what experience you have with defamation claims and what jurisdictions those occurred in?
 
Yeah, I don't expect any cases will be dismissed right out of the gate.

But defamation cases are a nasty affair, especially when you are dealing with a media defendant. Media members and companies are rightfully afforded great protection. There are questions relating to whether the plaintiffs are "public figures." There are questions relating to whether the statements are really statements of fact, or statements of opinion. Then Fox will claim they are reporting what Giuliani and the others were arguing in court and out of it, which is certainly newsworthy. The individuals, who are lawyers, will claim that their statements and arguments in court are privileged and not subject to defamation claims, and their statements to the press were simply a recitation of their privileged court arguments.

Then you can get into the whole reputation problem. When someone sues for defamation, the facts of the case essentially become, "how dirty are you?" So every piece of crap, every lawsuit, every claim by a former employee, etc..., that could have tarnished these companies reputations will be publicly aired.

Then, and only then, do we get to the question of damages, which FS23 and I will just have to agree to disagree on. I think they are going to have to prove actual damages if they want to get anything beyond that, because the courthouse steps are littered with defamation cases where plaintiffs proved little or no actual damages but got a huge award based upon some sort of harm to their reputation, only to see appeals courts strip it all away.

You understand that the people arguing with you (not me but FS23) probably know more about it than you do right? Your posts seem to suggest otherwise...
 
Its the right term but it is BS. The moral hazard is never an issue when we bail out the banks or other companies. It is just a buzz word now that people use trying to sound like they care.

No, it's a buzzword for the politicians. It's been used in academia for as long as I can remember. Moral hazard was discussed at length in my economics courses, talking about airline bailouts. (Northwest Airlines was the most recent example at that time.)
 
You understand that the people arguing with you (not me but FS23) probably know more about it than you do right? Your posts seem to suggest otherwise...

One of the superpowers conservatives have is their gut instincts are superior to decades of professional experience or scholarly research.

They just "know." And their falsifiability test is they never doubt themselves.

It's like religious faith, but inwards directed.
 
Again I am not saying it isnt the correct term (I discussed it in class last year) but it has no value anymore because it actually doesn't exist. Free Market Capitalism doesn't allow for it anymore.
 
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1359924679302144010

The $600 weekly boost to jobless benefits included in the CARES Act did little to discourage the unemployed from attempting to return to work, according to a study released Thursday by the JPMorgan Chase Research Institute.

Economists from JPMorgan Chase and the University of Chicago found no sustained increase in the number of people who returned to work after receiving unemployment benefits once the $600 weekly increase expired at the end of July.

But but but...
 
You understand that the people arguing with you (not me but FS23) probably know more about it than you do right? Your posts seem to suggest otherwise...

Yeah, I see that he's been trying to bait me into some sort of dikk measuring contest.

Look, sorry I expressed an opinion on what I see as problems with the case. When the billion dollar verdict comes in, and is upheld on appeal, I'm sure I'll hear all about it.
 
Yeah, I see that he's been trying to bait me into some sort of dikk measuring contest.

Look, sorry I expressed an opinion on what I see as problems with the case. When the billion dollar verdict comes in, and is upheld on appeal, I'm sure I'll hear all about it.

I was trying to gauge how much weight I should give your opinion. I admittedly only have relevant experience in Colorado (about a dozen litigated cases in this area), Pennsylvania (1 litigated case in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania), and New Jersey (1 litigated case). Further, my experience is predominately in defending defamation cases. Based on that experience and knowledge gained, your opinion on this matter was hogwash. However, I also recognize that there are a bunch of other jurisdictions and different people who have various other experience with defamation cases. I was trying to gauge if perhaps you had that type of experience. Given that you continually refuse to answer the question, I'm going to presume your experience is basically zero and you are just talking out of your ass.
 
I was trying to gauge how much weight I should give your opinion. I admittedly only have relevant experience in Colorado (about a dozen litigated cases in this area), Pennsylvania (1 litigated case in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania), and New Jersey (1 litigated case). Further, my experience is predominately in defending defamation cases. Based on that experience and knowledge gained, your opinion on this matter was hogwash. However, I also recognize that there are a bunch of other jurisdictions and different people who have various other experience with defamation cases. I was trying to gauge if perhaps you had that type of experience. Given that you continually refuse to answer the question, I'm going to presume your experience is basically zero and you are just talking out of your ***.

Like I said, just my opinion. Sorry I posted it. I guess we'll all find out sooner or later what the outcome is, and then everyone here will be able to rub my face in it.
 
Yeah, I see that he's been trying to bait me into some sort of dikk measuring contest.

Look, sorry I expressed an opinion on what I see as problems with the case. When the billion dollar verdict comes in, and is upheld on appeal, I'm sure I'll hear all about it.

Oh get off your cross Bob Gray. You seemed to have no issue with people piling on me for expressing an opinion on things as you do (including you doing it yourself) but apparently you can't handle it when people do it to you.

No one is saying you should not have an opinion...but maybe when someone who is learned in a subject tells you why you might be wrong it is worth listening to.
 
Would you guess the settlement will be around 20,000? ;D
It's funny you should post that. Earlier, after I posted that I thought the plaintiffs would end up settling for Gretchen Carlson money, I went to look up what she got because I couldn't remember. Turns out it was $20 million, which is kind of funny for the exact reason you now reference.

My actual guess is that they'll settle for somewhere south of $80 million. If you made me guess a specific number, I'll go with $50 mil. I think the pink slime people got something like $175 million in their case, but they had actual damages. They were closing plants left and right because of the drop in business, and they were claiming something like $5 billion in damages, which is twice as much as the plaintiffs here.

So, there it is, $50 million. Someone save it so that rufus and others can come back and rub my face in it.
 
Oh get off your cross Bob Gray. You seemed to have no issue with people piling on me for expressing an opinion on things as you do (including you doing it yourself) but apparently you can't handle it when people do it to you.

No one is saying you should not have an opinion...but maybe when someone who is learned in a subject tells you why you might be wrong it is worth listening to.

Calm down. I'm happy for him. Six years into his career he's the second coming of Floyd Abrams.
 
Oh get off your cross Bob Gray. You seemed to have no issue with people piling on me for expressing an opinion on things as you do (including you doing it yourself) but apparently you can't handle it when people do it to you.

No one is saying you should not have an opinion...but maybe when someone who is learned in a subject tells you why you might be wrong it is worth listening to.

That is simply not SJHovey's way. He spouts off an opinion with absolutely zero basis and can't handle it when it is criticized. Time to put him on ignore.
 
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