Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

[dxmnkd316]

Dump question. My understanding of crypto currencies is they reach a point where no new volume is added. At that point does mining stop? And if mining stops how do you ensure the chain?

Yes, but we're already there.

https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/...ins-are-there/

There are currently 18,682,550 bitcoins in existence. This number changes about every 10 minutes when new blocks are mined. Right now, each new block adds 6.25 bitcoins into circulation.

How Many Bitcoins Will Ever be Created?
The maximum and total amount of bitcoins that can ever exist is 21 million.

Crypto, like all "resources" is based on how hard the people who make money on it want it to be a fad. If gold didn't have useful properties, it would be tangible crypto.


Edit: Didn't see this at first, but that's exponential decay on a LOGRITHMIC axis. Sh-t is flat as a James Webb mirror. And waaaaay out on the right, you can see a step drop down again.

 

[LynahFan]

Dump question. My understanding of crypto currencies is they reach a point where no new volume is added. At that point does mining stop? And if mining stops how do you ensure the chain?

My dumb answer (certainly not remotely knowledgeable): Yes, mining stops, but you can still use the existing coins as currency to buy stuff. Every time there's a transaction, that "coin's" chain must be verified and then added to, which takes a significant amount of server power in its own right (but nowhere near as much as initial mining).

I think.

 

[dxmnkd316]

My dumb answer (certainly not remotely knowledgeable): Yes, mining stops, but you can still use the existing coins as currency to buy stuff. Every time there's a transaction, that "coin's" chain must be verified and then added to, which takes a significant amount of server power in its own right (but nowhere near as much as initial mining).

I think.

Right, but what's the value in it at that point? The whole point now is that new bitcoins are the carrot to spend untold amounts of energy and carbon to process the blockchain. Without the carrot, you need to find another way to pay for those services. Good luck when the market is so crowded you have a farking dog-meme currency that started as a joke.

 

[Kepler]

Good luck when the market is so crowded you have a farking dog-meme currency that started as a joke.

I know Tubman's not a looker but that's harsh.

 

[Handyman]

I wish mining would stop, then I wouldn’t have had to pay $600 for my RTX 3060...

Sorry about that...although I bought a system that has an RTX 3060 (for more than just mining) pretty cheap in the secondary market.

dx,

Unless China puts in a carbon tax crypto will never die because of it. Plus I would guess many of the cryptos have other means. By the time such a tax was implemented anyways enough crypto will exist that it won't go away anyways. Too many powerful people are supporting it now. The Bitcoin crash will be fun to watch though :^)

My guess is 5 years from now coins like Ethereum will be the "dominant" force.

 

[LynahFan]

Right, but what's the value in it at that point? The whole point now is that new bitcoins are the carrot to spend untold amounts of energy and carbon to process the blockchain. Without the carrot, you need to find another way to pay for those services. Good luck when the market is so crowded you have a farking dog-meme currency that started as a joke.

From here:

"Miners receive both a block subsidy (newly minted bitcoin) and transaction fees for ordering transactions into blocks. This means they are incentivized to prioritize the transaction with the highest fees. During times of high network congestion, where a large number of users want to transact, the transactions with the highest fees are more likely to be included in the next block."

Once the newly minted subsidy goes away, the "miners" will be limited to collecting transaction fees, which are effectively always at auction pricing - how valuable is transaction speed to the payer? If payers stop offering transaction fees that are sufficient to cover the cost of the server farm (and the energy to run it), then the whole thing will go bankrupt.

 

[Handyman]

Right, but what's the value in it at that point? The whole point now is that new bitcoins are the carrot to spend untold amounts of energy and carbon to process the blockchain. Without the carrot, you need to find another way to pay for those services. Good luck when the market is so crowded you have a farking dog-meme currency that started as a joke.

The value is what anyone is willing to value it at. People trade currency every day this is just currency not linked to a country or government. Right now it is a bubble which won't last but it is not going anywhere. Consolidation will happen as it becomes more mainstream to use.

I mean it isnt like crypto is new...it is just something non-nerds care about now.

 

[dxmnkd316]

From here:

"Miners receive both a block subsidy (newly minted bitcoin) and transaction fees for ordering transactions into blocks. This means they are incentivized to prioritize the transaction with the highest fees. During times of high network congestion, where a large number of users want to transact, the transactions with the highest fees are more likely to be included in the next block."

Once the newly minted subsidy goes away, the "miners" will be limited to collecting transaction fees, which are effectively always at auction pricing - how valuable is transaction speed to the payer? If payers stop offering transaction fees that are sufficient to cover the cost of the server farm, then the whole thing will go bankrupt.

Ah, there it is. Makes sense. Now I'm curious how slow we're talking and how much it costs to improve that by some unit.

 

[SJHovey]

The value is what anyone is willing to value it at. People trade currency every day this is just currency not linked to a country or government. Right now it is a bubble which won't last but it is not going anywhere. Consolidation will happen as it becomes more mainstream to use.

I mean it isnt like crypto is new...it is just something non-nerds care about now.

Haven't the nerds moved on to non-fungible tokens?

 

[Jimjamesak]

Sorry about that...although I bought a system that has an RTX 3060 (for more than just mining) pretty cheap in the secondary market.

I bought a prebuilt gaming PC, like everyone else is doing because of the GPU shortage, and that was my charge. $1600 total for the system.

I bought it a month ago and it still hasn’t been built (though that’s not surprising).

 

[Handyman]

From here:

"Miners receive both a block subsidy (newly minted bitcoin) and transaction fees for ordering transactions into blocks. This means they are incentivized to prioritize the transaction with the highest fees. During times of high network congestion, where a large number of users want to transact, the transactions with the highest fees are more likely to be included in the next block."

Once the newly minted subsidy goes away, the "miners" will be limited to collecting transaction fees, which are effectively always at auction pricing - how valuable is transaction speed to the payer? If payers stop offering transaction fees that are sufficient to cover the cost of the server farm (and the energy to run it), then the whole thing will go bankrupt.

Which is why Bitcoin is going to crash and crash hard. It wont go away though...even if you mine for things other than Bitcoin you are usually paid in Bitcoin because it is the most secure and widely respected.

The 2 things that can stop a total bust of crypto are other people like Cuban wanting their business model to be crypto friendly and China keeping things going until that becomes a thing. If China (and some other places where the massive farms exist) bail out the this will be more fun to watch than the Tech Bubble imploding!

My investment is minimal even with the computer I bought (which has other uses besides just this) so if the bottom falls out won't hurt me one bit.

 

[Handyman]

Haven't the nerds moved on to non-fungible tokens?

Yeah I dont get that stuff...I tried researching it but went crosseyed. :^)

 

[Handyman]

I bought a prebuilt gaming PC, like everyone else is doing because of the GPU shortage, and that was my charge. $1600 total for the system.

I bought it a month ago and it still hasn’t been built (though that’s not surprising).

Really? Who did you have build it? My buddy built an Alienware (with 2080s which arent as rare) and it was made in a week.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Sorry about that...although I bought a system that has an RTX 3060 (for more than just mining) pretty cheap in the secondary market.

dx,

Unless China puts in a carbon tax crypto will never die because of it. Plus I would guess many of the cryptos have other means. By the time such a tax was implemented anyways enough crypto will exist that it won't go away anyways. Too many powerful people are supporting it now. The Bitcoin crash will be fun to watch though :^)

My guess is 5 years from now coins like Ethereum will be the "dominant" force.

I don't think it would take that long. My company makes a product the mining farms gobble up at already insane prices. The costs to manufacture this product will necessarily go up as carbon becomes expensive. We aren't moving the production of this product and there aren't many companies who can compete. The miners can move all they want, the inputs will cost more. Nvidia is already finding ways of blocking their chips from being used to mine. Eventually it's going to be a problem where no one is going to want to provide the energy that adds nothing to the world economy at an extreme cost to the entire planet.

And even China has been regulating energy and pollution more. Certainly not as much as Europe, but more than it has in the past.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Really? Who did you have build it? My buddy built an Alienware (with 2080s which arent as rare) and it was made in a week.

Newer company called Build Redux, they use off the shelf parts and only charge a $75 build fee. Thought about NZXT but I didn’t like any of what they had to offer, same with Digital Storm.

Alienware (which is really Dell) and Omen (which is HP) aren’t really great value for gaming PCs.

 

[Kepler]

Yeah I dont get that stuff...I tried researching it but went crosseyed. :^)

Here's the research you need to know where NFTs are headed.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Nvidia is already finding ways of blocking their chips from being used to mine.

You mean the one they’ve already gotten around?

Nvidia is also releasing a mining specific gpu soon too.

 

[Handyman]

Newer company called Build Redux, they use off the shelf parts and only charge a $75 build fee. Thought about NZXT but I didn’t like any of what they had to offer, same with Digital Storm.

Alienware (which is really Dell) and Omen (which is HP) aren’t really great value for gaming PCs.

Yeah I know...but we dont high end game on comps cause we are old ;^) (we have other uses for the comps that are work related)

And Nvidia is never gonna block mining...they can say it all they want to but they wont just like cell phones never blocked people from rooting their phones despite always making a stink about of it. In fact they all ended up embracing. Well except Apple, but Apple is awful anyways so jailbreaking didn't much matter :^)

 

[rufus]

Sorry, old man here. How do you "mine" Bitcoin?

 

[SJHovey]

Sorry, old man here. How do you "mine" Bitcoin?

https://www.investopedia.com/tech/how-does-bitcoin-mining-work/