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Business, Economics, and Taxes 2: That's Why We Fight to Take the Means Back

Drew S. said:
Not sure I’ve ever seen a post on USCHO I’ve more strongly agreed with. The whole system is completely nuts. There are so many people making so much money on how the system is constructed right now I doubt it changes anytime soon.
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It can if you actually vote your actual feelings and desires. And everyone else just like you.

The republican party has never, ever, represented what you say you want. They haven't offered an actual balanced budget since Nixon. They want to profit on your education, you being sick, and keep your wages as close to poverty as possible. And now we have a r president who has actually said he wants to take your guns. They want corporations to have a voice, which has turned out to be disproportionately larger than yours.

And I would look back on early 70's history to check and see if your religion really wanted to ban abortion.

But somehow anger and fear has spawned division, and have made people vote very much against their best interest. And here we are.
 
MichVandal said:
Not sure what the fuck is going on in the healthcare system, but it sure seems that the private funds people are ganging up with the "healthcare providers" - aka the industry who's only goal is to make money denying you care. There's a huge dispute between a Blue Cross and Michigan, and it appears that BCBS is going to not allow their customers to use Michigan Medicine. Their alternative is Trinity Health. Which is supposedly a ministry based care system, but it also a big step down in care.

I sent a note to our rep, and the reply I got was that 300k people are stuck in the same situation.

BCBS are pretty stupid here- first doing this mid year, forcing people to make choices if they want any nominal care for the rest of this year. Forgetting that most people have spend years and decades making care relationships that are suddenly over. So at the end of they year, probably a majority of people affected will change to a different healthcare money launderer to keep our actual care the same.

BCBS is very much showing the world WHY we need to get rid of that stupid industry and go single payer healthcare. That way, we don't have to worry about for profit companies skimming my money that should be going to take care of me (and all the other people in the system), or even over pay for useless layers of management that do literally nothing to help people other than to tell the people (or AI) processing requests to say no.

I have always supported universal single payer healthcare, moreso when I did the easy math translating what we pay to the money launderers into Medicare and knowing that we could pay not only for 100% of the citizens of the US, we could afford all of the documented and undocumented people in the US. Although the last group of people would make people's heads explode. But that is how much we are over paying to people who decide what care we are allowed to have.

Fucking crazy that there's a middle industry who thrive telling us how we are allowed to spend our money on our health. This isn't car insurance or home insurance where you are betting against some kind of accident or failure, This is our health. We are ALL going to get sick and die. Some will have accidents that need care, some will get cancer that isn't an accident at all, but a result of greed, some will have genetic issues that need dealt with. ALL of us need and use healthcare and all of us SHOULD see a doctor every year.

Stop with the "insurance" BS, as that is only hedging accidents.

Universal Healthcare today.
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All that, and of course, this was the year my employer switched to BCBS after years of Cigna.
 
MichVandal said:
It can if you actually vote your actual feelings and desires. And everyone else just like you.

The republican party has never, ever, represented what you say you want. They haven't offered an actual balanced budget since Nixon. They want to profit on your education, you being sick, and keep your wages as close to poverty as possible. And now we have a r president who has actually said he wants to take your guns. They want corporations to have a voice, which has turned out to be disproportionately larger than yours.

And I would look back on early 70's history to check and see if your religion really wanted to ban abortion.

But somehow anger and fear has spawned division, and have made people vote very much against their best interest. And here we are.
Click to expand...

Democrats want to do some good things as far as expanding access to folks with limited means, which is commendable, but to me the fundamental issue is there is way too much cost in the system. Both parties have too many sacred cows to make meaningful changes.
 
Health care should be removed from the profiteering system. Essential human needs should not be rationed based on wealth.

The market economy is only morally neutral if the buyer has a choice. Otherwise it's extortion.

Use markets for jewelry and cosmetics and sportsball tickets.
 
The Mainers who have posted about healthcare on this board are morons. Drew and what's his name, who used to post about how all commie systems were death panels, yet had never spent a single moment working or living in one and failed to recognize the biggest faults in ours.

I'm a big proponent of universal coverage, but not single payer necessarily. I prefer multi payer systems like France, although, as I stressed in the classes I used to teach on this - no one system has perfected it yet. But I prefer multi, which is what France/Switz/Germany/Japan/others use

what would I know, I've only lived and worked in multiple of them :)
 
Drew S. said:
Democrats want to do some good things as far as expanding access to folks with limited means, which is commendable, but to me the fundamental issue is there is way too much cost in the system. Both parties have too many sacred cows to make meaningful changes.
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Do the math. Add up all of the fees and costs that we all pay for the current system, and it's more than what democrats are proposing.

So while it does cost a lot of money, it's considerably less than what we pay now.

None the less, what you just posted attempts to see Democrats as not a viable option, even though it's light years better than the r "proposal". So stop with the "both parties' crap. They may both do things, but they are not even close to the same degree and all that does is mess up the obvious.

The r party has not been a party that does anything useful for decades, unless you already have over 10 0's in your net worth, and because of how they (and you) frame things, we are now where we are. I can't take any r seriously if they were involved with any actual politics over the last 30 years, because THIS is the end result of that rhetoric.

By trying to frame this as some kind of "both sides", all you do, and continue to do, is keep this movement going.

Stop it.
 
Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
The Mainers who have posted about healthcare on this board are morons. Drew and what's his name, who used to post about how all commie systems were death panels, yet had never spent a single moment working or living in one and failed to recognize the biggest faults in ours.

I'm a big proponent of universal coverage, but not single payer necessarily. I prefer multi payer systems like France, although, as I stressed in the classes I used to teach on this - no one system has perfected it yet. But I prefer multi, which is what France/Switz/Germany/Japan/others use

what would I know, I've only lived and worked in multiple of them :)
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I get what you are saying in terms of the multiple.

But when you see companies that are supposedly not for profit screwing over consumers in the way they launder our money, I have moved to eliminate that entire industry and just nationalize it. It's a complete waste of money that adds zero productivity to our society, and has a negative effect on health outcomes.

The single system may have a lot of issues, but unless there are a TON of constraints on the multiple sources, they are all going to lean to making more money for themselves vs actually making sure people are healthy. We would need a massive restructure of how our country sees businesses, and actually close the earning gap before non government entities would be dealing honestly with healthcare.

edit- mind you- at many levels of the current system, all of that could be rolled into the single payer system. Like all but the top 5 layers or so of management- which is still a gross majority of the workers.
 
For every major mistake America has made over the last 45 years, there is a video of Bernie Sanders trying to stop it. Too bad no one listened.

"Both parties are bad so I'll vote Republican and complain about the Democrats"

arlrnb.jpg
 
Speaking of blame deflection. That darn Biden.

U.S. consumer prices climbed sharply again last month as the 10-week war with Iran delivered higher gasoline prices and more pain for Americans.

The Labor Department’s consumer price index rose 3.8% from April 2025, the biggest jump in three years, and up from a 3.3% year-over-year gain in March. On a month-to-month basis, April prices rose 0.6% from March as gasoline prices rose 5.4%, according to the data released Tuesday.
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MichVandal said:
I get what you are saying in terms of the multiple.

But when you see companies that are supposedly not for profit screwing over consumers in the way they launder our money, I have moved to eliminate that entire industry and just nationalize it. It's a complete waste of money that adds zero productivity to our society, and has a negative effect on health outcomes.

The single system may have a lot of issues, but unless there are a TON of constraints on the multiple sources, they are all going to lean to making more money for themselves vs actually making sure people are healthy. We would need a massive restructure of how our country sees businesses, and actually close the earning gap before non government entities would be dealing honestly with healthcare.

edit- mind you- at many levels of the current system, all of that could be rolled into the single payer system. Like all but the top 5 layers or so of management- which is still a gross majority of the workers.
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I don't think you are understanding what I am saying about multi payer. it doesn't mean what we have now. the countries all named have very strict regulations on how they are administered. Those countries are nothing like our system, they just aren't purely single funded by taxes like Canada and the UK. They are very complex systems

and, I think THIS is the argument we should be having - how to fund universal coverage, instead of "we want it" vs "let me get reamed up the ass by my private insurer while I go broke and get to call others commies"
 
Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
The Mainers who have posted about healthcare on this board are morons. Drew and what's his name, who used to post about how all commie systems were death panels, yet had never spent a single moment working or living in one and failed to recognize the biggest faults in ours.
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Spoiler alert: We have death panels now. People die because they can't afford medication. It's a feature, not a bug. Surplus population and all.

If you went into a coma in the 1960's and woke up today you'd think we lost the Cold War.
 
We can pool our risk as US persons to share the burden of health care costs most efficiently. There is a reason we don't have private Military Invasion Insurance.

Private health insurance is parasitic. It is, at best, buggy whips. Time for the blood suckers to die.
 
ticapnews said:
Spoiler alert: We have death panels now. People die because they can't afford medication. It's a feature, not a bug. Surplus population and all.

If you went into a coma in the 1960's and woke up today you'd think we lost the Cold War.
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one of the many reasons the nonsense he was spouting off on our system years ago was called out by me as bullshit.
 
MichVandal said:
I get what you are saying in terms of the multiple.

But when you see companies that are supposedly not for profit screwing over consumers in the way they launder our money, I have moved to eliminate that entire industry and just nationalize it. It's a complete waste of money that adds zero productivity to our society, and has a negative effect on health outcomes.

The single system may have a lot of issues, but unless there are a TON of constraints on the multiple sources, they are all going to lean to making more money for themselves vs actually making sure people are healthy. We would need a massive restructure of how our country sees businesses, and actually close the earning gap before non government entities would be dealing honestly with healthcare.

edit- mind you- at many levels of the current system, all of that could be rolled into the single payer system. Like all but the top 5 layers or so of management- which is still a gross majority of the workers.
Click to expand...

Fixing who pays and how is part of the solution, but I think you need to fix compensation as well. We pay way more than people in other countries. There should be a better system for compensating victims of medical malpractice as well.
 
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