Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Many Northern (near the border) US schools have lots of Canadians. Look at the recruit listings of Clarkson and SLU and even RMU for that matter.

Most of these schools are trying to put the best possible quality product on the ice. Without these options to attract North of the border talent, some of these schools might not be running Hockey programs. I suspect this is more true on the Men's than the Women's side.

Not to mention the tens of thousands of $$ we Canadians pour into the local economies where our kids play. Airline flights, car rentals, hotels, eateries, clothing stores and pubs.. when we come down to watch them play. I haven't gone to NY state once without meeting other Canadians who have come down to watch their kids on a number of different teams. I see them at the airport, car rental counters, hotel lobbies but funny enough.... mainly in the Pubs . Believe you me, we are not looking for a free ride nor are we getting one.

 

[GHF]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Many Northern (near the border) US schools have lots of Canadians. Look at the recruit listings of Clarkson and SLU and even RMU for that matter.

Most of these schools are trying to put the best possible quality product on the ice. Without these options to attract North of the border talent, some of these schools might not be running Hockey programs. I suspect this is more true on the Men's than the Women's side.

I have no issue with a private institution looking to attract foreign athletes to put the best possible product on the ice as long as they are playing by the rules. However, public institutions need to be even more careful, as they are playing with taxpayer money.

 

[Plugger]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Not to mention the tens of thousands of $$ we Canadians pour into the local economies where our kids play. Airline flights, car rentals, hotels, eateries, clothing stores and pubs.. when we come down to watch them play. I haven't gone to NY state once without meeting other Canadians who have come down to watch their kids on a number of different teams. I see them at the airport, car rental counters, hotel lobbies but funny enough.... mainly in the Pubs . Believe you me, we are not looking for a free ride nor are we getting one.

No offense, but we Americans also pour that same amount of money when we travel, as many too have to fly and we frequent the same hotels and eateries, plus where available, we support the Timmy Horton's where the money flows back to the great white north!!

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

No offense, but we Americans also pour that same amount of money when we travel, as many too have to fly and we frequent the same hotels and eateries, plus where available, we support the Timmy Horton's where the money flows back to the great white north!!

Yup, we are all doing our bit. No argument.

As a shareholder of Tim Hortons I would like to take this moment to thank all Double,Double drinkers south of the 49th for your valued support!

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Yup, we are all doing our bit. No argument.

As a shareholder of Tim Hortons I would like to take this moment to thank all Double,Double drinkers south of the 49th for your valued support!

I like the fact we get three more years of posts like this

Hopefully your D can help bring an NCAA title back to a certain private NY school again too during that time.

 

[creasemonkey]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

I think there is a big difference between athletic scholarships, like they give to D-I schools (like the one's you mentioned above) and international grants. You have to watch the fairness of the grants, where with athletic scholarships, the school has the right to spend a certain amount of money to draw hockey players to their institutions.

The question at D-III is how are these SUNY schools taking advantage of these grants, supported by the taxpayers of New York, to bring in players that can pad these rosters with strong players.

Plugger, you're right. Clarkson and SLU are private universities with DI athletic programs and thus have a little more maneuver room with respect to providing aid to student-athletes. I have a problem with state schools providing grants to attract international student-athletes at the expense of American student-athletes. I don't want to even get started on the talent argument because there is plenty of hockey talent within our own borders, so to think that you have to go north of the border to recruit talented hockey players is well, just wrong thinking.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

No offense, but we Americans also pour that same amount of money when we travel, as many too have to fly and we frequent the same hotels and eateries, plus where available, we support the Timmy Horton's where the money flows back to the great white north!!

Further to this and just fresh off opening my D's cell phone bill I can tell you the biggest winners here are the US cell phone providers. Sheeeesh!

23 you've got some splainin to do.... Skype me!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Believe you me, we are not looking for a free ride nor are we getting one.

Honestly ?. "You are not looking for a free ride"? Is that the truth. ?. Dunno about you, but many hockey parents are "Looking for a free ride". They are just not always getting one.!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Yup, we are all doing our bit. No argument.

As a shareholder of Tim Hortons I would like to take this moment to thank all Double,Double drinkers south of the 49th for your valued support!

Free trade at its best......I suspect that more of my investments are in US based companies than those from Canada....Besides we would not want to deprive our friends from the south from the best coffee around.

 

[Dyce]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Hmmmmmm.....anyone look at the Plattsburgh roster??

12 Americans
12 Canadians
1 England
1 South Korea

While they are near canadian border, and you might be able to explain being close to the border, just like Buffalo, they also have 2 from Alberta, 1 from Manitoba and 1 from British Columbia. They are a long way from home. Let's hope it is Coach Houle and his assistants just doing a good recruiting job.

There's a quite informative thread on the violations available here on the men's board. Among the topics addressed is the player composition of current rosters, and its irrelevance to the issue cited by the NCAA. The two posts starting here show that the ruling was based on the inordinate percentage of total Canadian grants school-wide that went to student-athletes. Basically, Plattsburgh is perfectly free to field 14 international students on a roster of 26, so long as those 14 (plus the 14 on the men's team, plus any other grant-receiving international student-athletes) don't represent an overwhelming majority of the total international grant recipients at the school. Obviously, Plattsburgh must have plenty of qualifying students who don't play sports, or they'd find themselves in the same hot water as Buff State.

 

[Plugger]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Plugger, you're right. Clarkson and SLU are private universities with DI athletic programs and thus have a little more maneuver room with respect to providing aid to student-athletes. I have a problem with state schools providing grants to attract international student-athletes at the expense of American student-athletes. I don't want to even get started on the talent argument because there is plenty of hockey talent within our own borders, so to think that you have to go north of the border to recruit talented hockey players is well, just wrong thinking.

I agree with you on this, and hope you did not think I was saying it was alright. In fact, if I were a New York State resident, I would be angry that $$'s are being spent to bring in people from outside our borders, instead of helping people here in the US who are struggling.....especially right now.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

I like the fact we get three more years of posts like this

Hopefully your D can help bring an NCAA title back to a certain private NY school again too during that time.

It is my belief from the President through to the AD and on down that is exactly what they intend to do at that certain private NY school. Great School, Excellent Program, Unique History and Traditions, Top Ranked Alumni Coaches, Assistants and Recruiters and a team that is just now starting to believe in themselves. It's only a matter of time Prez...

 

[SeymoreHockey]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

It is my belief from the President through to the AD and on down that is exactly what they intend to do at that certain private NY school. Great School, Excellent Program, Unique History and Traditions, Top Ranked Alumni Coaches, Assistants and Recruiters and a team that is just now starting to believe in themselves. It's only a matter of time Prez...

Yawn! Good luck.

 

[creasemonkey]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

I agree with you on this, and hope you did not think I was saying it was alright. In fact, if I were a New York State resident, I would be angry that $$'s are being spent to bring in people from outside our borders, instead of helping people here in the US who are struggling.....especially right now.

No, I didn't think you were saying that it was all right. I was just agreeing with you and elaborating a bit, that's all.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Yawn! Good luck.

Well Thanks Seymore, coming from you that really means something. I'm welling up!

You tired? Get 36 in yesterday at the Muni?

 

[spike]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

If there are abuses at these schools it is particularly hurting competition at the D-III level.

At D-I, the Ivy's have had grant options for international students as well, and they use these liberally to help Canadian players finance their education. But, at least the schools that are competing on the ice with the Ivy's are D-I schools, with the ability to offer athletic scholarships. At D-III, however, a school that is following the rules cannot compete with schools that are abusing the international grant program.

 

[Matt Rennell]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

If there are abuses at these schools it is particularly hurting competition at the D-III level.

At D-I, the Ivy's have had grant options for international students as well, and they use these liberally to help Canadian players finance their education. But, at least the schools that are competing on the ice with the Ivy's are D-I schools, with the ability to offer athletic scholarships. At D-III, however, a school that is following the rules cannot compete with schools that are abusing the international grant program.

For what it's worth. It appears that the violations that have taken place were an unintentional consequence to a legitimate program that began in 2001 by the SUNY system. The reason why Geneseo and Buff St. have been penalized by the NCAA is because of the number of students who participated in this grant program were predominantly athletes, specifically hockey players.

Think of it like this:

Say College A and College B each have an enrollment of 5,000 students. Each college offers the Canadian Grant program.

In College A's case, say 300 of thier students are Canadian, and 15 of those are athletes/hockey players.

However College B has only 20 Canadian students and 15 of them are athletes/hockey players.

College A, based on my understanding of the NCAA ruling, is perfectly fine.

However College B gets into hot water with the NCAA because due to their lack of non-athlete Canadians, the grant has essentially turned into an incentive only/primarily to benefit athletes and athletics.

As has been discussed on the mens board, this certainly may not be the last we hear about this as this type of practice is used not only across SUNY schools, but nearly all of D-III.

 

[THE Icemom]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Matt:
Thank you for the crystal clear explanation. They made a mistake, someone wasn't keeping close tabs on how the money was being allocated and it is unfortunate the athletes will not get to participate in post season. They are the victims. The person or persons who goofed so badly, knowingly or not, should be made to stand in front of those athletes and apologize.

Just my two western US cents.

 

[videohockey]

Re: Buffalo State penalized for grant violations

Matt:
Thank you for the crystal clear explanation. They made a mistake, someone wasn't keeping close tabs on how the money was being allocated and it is unfortunate the athletes will not get to participate in post season. They are the victims. The person or persons who goofed so badly, knowingly or not, should be made to stand in front of those athletes and apologize.

Just my two western US cents.

In the mean time the team stands in front of Platty going ***? happened to our season.