BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

[Sean Pickett]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Eichel 26
Rodrigues 21
O'Regan 23
Gryz 10
Oksanen 25
Hohmann 8

Next guy in scoring after these 6 was Fotunato who had 1 goal, and even he fell into their lap late after issues at Harvard in admissions.

All 100% Parker recruits 116 of the 158 goals.
After them, not one guy had dbl digits, 2 had 8, 1 had 6 rest 1-4. Wow

12 out of 14 goals in NCAA were from the "Parker" guys

18 of 20 of the goals were from the 6 "Parker" guys

great pipeline but zero to do with last year, zero

You remind me of another fan in 1990 who claimed that as long as Coach Parker was head coach BU would never win a NCAA title. When I asked him about the 1978 title he said that Coach Kelley had recruited all those players.

While recruiting is very important, what you do with them once they are at school and are part of the team is more important.

Finally, if you ask them, I'm sure every single player on the team would say the are Coach Quinn guys.

Sean

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Come on guys, we all know what the coaches do with the players when they're actually in practice and on the ice isn't relevant compared to who recruited them.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Had them all outside Eichel the year before.
Did he "coach up" Parkers prized recruit?

Eichel has said more than once he is there 100% because of Parker

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Eichel has said more than once he is there 100% because of Parker

Can you supply some of those statements? I won't hold my breath waiting.

Sean

 

[J.D.]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Hoky, while i believe some dispute this...eichel has said he was a BC fan at some point. I'm just curious if you say he went to BU because of parker, what about parker? What made him pick BU at a time where BC was clearly top dog? Always been fascinated by that.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Can you supply some of those statements? I won't hold my breath my breath waiting.

Sean

dozens of them. please do though feel to hold it until I post again, no cheating!!!



Quinn was a huge part of getting Eichel

Considering it had been a dream of his for years, leaving home and moving to Ann Arbor was an easy decision for Eichel. Before he left, though, he had another decision he wanted to make. He wanted to decide where he was going to college so it wouldn't weigh on his mind all season.

Eichel grew up watching college hockey (more accurately, he grew up watching any hockey he could get his eyes on), and as was the case with the USNTDP, he made it a goal of his to eventually play at that level. Eichel had actually been a Boston College fan, with his father saying that BC was his "dream school" as a kid. BC showed interest in Eichel, but he wanted to make sure he looked at all his options.

As he did that, he found himself drawn to BU more and more. He liked Agganis Arena and its top-notch facilities. He liked Jack Parker and the pro style his team played. He liked BU's connection with Mike Boyle, one of the most respected trainers in the country and someone Eichel had worked with previously.

"I never would've thought five, 10 years ago that I'd go to BU over BC," Eichel said. "It ended up just being a better fit. I got that gut feeling that BU was a better place for me."

So Eichel made a verbal commitment to BU and headed out to Ann Arbor for his next challenge. Making the under-17 team meant another step up in competition, as the USNTDP squads play mostly United States Hockey League teams. The USHL was packed with college prospects and future NHL draft picks who were even stronger and faster than what Eichel had faced in the EmJHL.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Hoky, while i believe some dispute this...eichel has said he was a BC fan at some point. I'm just curious if you say he went to BU because of parker, what about parker? What made him pick BU at a time where BC was clearly top dog? Always been fascinated by that.

He was a BC fan his whole life. He played for the Masters brothers, both BC guys, his mother cried when he turned BC down, he went to BU because of JACK PARKER and the way HE COACHED, among other things such as Mike Boyle

 

[Mike799]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

In past seasons I've also questioned the lack of improvement of some BU goalies, but to claim a lack of improvement by O'Connor this season over his first two is wrong. While almost doubling his playing time as a Terrier this season (seventh most minutes played all-time by a BU goalie in a season) he noticeably improved his GAA and save percentage. For BU goalies who played 14 or more games in a season he is tied for second all-time in wins with 25 (which is what we ultimately want as fans); his save percentage is third best; his GAA is eighth best; his number of saves is seventh best. Among the top ten single seasons for minutes played O'Connor is third in goals allowed; third in GAA; sixth in saves; second in save percentage; second in wins; second in fewest loses; and second in winning percentage.

Also to claim no improvement by Millan is misleading as he had such an outstanding freshman season. Still is junior and senior seasons were excellent and statistically his save percentage was about the same as for his freshman season while facing about 350 more shots both seasons.

As for LaCouvee, with this limited playing time it is hard to compare him to Maguire and O'Connor as freshmen, but if you do his worst game was better than several of Maguire's, as well as O'Connor's worst game. I also think he is a much better goalie than some of the other goalies to play at BU over the past decade.

Sean

Comparing O'Connor's statistics to all-time BU goalies is a poor barometer. We all know how much of an advantage goalies have today compared to years ago because of emphasis on defensive systems and bigger goalie equipment. Instead, he should be compared to other hockey east goalies. I think most would agree that his three years and Millan's last three years were average at best when compared to the other hockey east goalies. With all the highly touted recruits the coaching staff has committed, I'm surprised they haven't targeted a highly touted goalie in the two years they've been here.
As far as LaCouvee, he was 3-4-1. The 3 wins were against the two worst teams in the country. (Wisc and 2UMASS) That 9-5 UMASS game may have been the worst all around goaltending display I've ever seen. LaCouvee might end up having a great career, but I'm surprised they brought in an unheralded goalie. Hopefully, the debacles from OC in the tournament emphasize the need for high end goalies to the coaching staff.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Comparing O'Connor's statistics to all-time BU goalies is a poor barometer. We all know how much of an advantage goalies have today compared to years ago because of emphasis on defensive systems and bigger goalie equipment.

A poor barometer for you, since it shows O'Connor has been one of BU's best goalies and also that he improved all three seasons he played for the Terriers. That was something you were big on: that he got worse, not better and his stats prove that you are wrong on that.

Instead, he should be compared to other hockey east goalies. I think most would agree that his three years and Millan's last three years were average at best when compared to the other hockey east goalies.

I never said O'Connor had great seasons as a freshman and sophomore, but he had an excellent junior season. I looked at the Hockey East website and there were 17 ranked goalies this season and 44 ranked goalies the past three seasons for all games. For this season O'Connor was 3rd in save %, 5th in GAA, 3rd in saves, 1st in wins and 1st in win %. When you compare his stats for this season to those of the 44 goalies over the past three season O'Connor was 8th in save %, 11th in GAA, 11th in saves, 1st in wins and 2nd in win %. Those numbers are all well above average.

Now if you want career stats, which can not be used to show that O'Connor got better while at BU and Millan didn't get worse, then I also have those. I have taken what I believe are all the Hockey East goalies who played a significant amount of games for their teams during at least one season and I created a spreadsheet of 44 goalies going back to 2008 (which I believe was the year you originally mentioned). So how do Millan and O'Connor stack up against the other 42 Hockey East goalies?
Games Played: Millan - 138 (2nd); O'Connor - 76 (21th); average - 72; median - 73
Minutes: Millan - 8188:19 (2nd); O'Connor - 4422:24 (20th); average - 4146:08; median - 4047:57
Saves: Millan - 3768 (1st); O'Connor - 2181 (16th); average - 1857; median 1868
Save %: Millan - 0.915 (16th); O'Connor - 0.921 (9th); average - 0.913; median - 0.9135
GAA: Millan - 2.58 (21st); O'Connor - 2.55 (20th); average - 2.56; median - 2.60
Wins: Millan - 81 (2nd); O'Connor - 40 (T-14th); average - 32; median - 32.5
Win %: Millan - 0.644 (5th); O'Connor - 0.634 (7th); average 0.522; median - 0.5295
Games Started: Millan - 137 (2nd); O'Connor - 74 (20th); average - 69; median - 67
Shutouts: Millan - 8 (9th); O'Connor - 1* (T-38th); average - 5; median - 4
* O'Connor was replaced by Moccia after 58:58 without giving up a goal vs Merrimack on 3/14/15

I have put the Hockey East goalies 2008-15 spreadsheet on Dropbox.

Sean

 

[Terrier520]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Eichel has said more than once he is there 100% because of Parker

And that's why, once Parker said that he was retiring, he -- and every single other member of the BU squad -- immediately jumped to the Q. BU turned into a flaming pile of trash, and stayed that way forever and ever, because David Quinn is terrible and no one wants to play for him.

Oh wait.

 

[Agganis]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Jeeze, this thread had quite the weekend.

Stats aren't perfect, whether you're talking about goalies or skaters, but save percentage is a much more accurate barometer of a goalie than random fans' opinions.

A .920 goalie is a solid starter, if you don't have one you probably won't win many trophies, a .930 goalie will be top ten and can make an above average team into a Frozen Four contender. O'Connor was .927 last year, if BU gets that every year with the recruiting and development of skaters the new coaching staff has shown BU will be in a great spot.

O'Connor's three seasons save percentages were: .909 (bad), .920 (average/solid), .927 (very good, but not great). I would consider that solid improvement.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

O'Connor's three seasons save percentages were: .909 (bad), .920 (average/solid), .927 (very good, but not great). I would consider that solid improvement.

Personally, I would say .927 is great as long as it is not on a team is a trap/defensive team (say like Ryan Miller's MSU teams and the Cornell teams of the early 2000s). There can be no doubt, stats or no stats, that O'Connor got better as his career at BU progressed. Simply from watching him you could tell that he was much better. A few weird goals don't change that. And not for nothing, but there have been some awfully soft goals scored up in the bigs this seasons in the playoffs as well.

 

[Mike799]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

A poor barometer for you, since it shows O'Connor has been one of BU's best goalies and also that he improved all three seasons he played for the Terriers. That was something you were big on: that he got worse, not better and his stats prove that you are wrong on that.

I never said O'Connor had great seasons as a freshman and sophomore, but he had an excellent junior season. I looked at the Hockey East website and there were 17 ranked goalies this season and 44 ranked goalies the past three seasons for all games. For this season O'Connor was 3rd in save %, 5th in GAA, 3rd in saves, 1st in wins and 1st in win %. When you compare his stats for this season to those of the 44 goalies over the past three season O'Connor was 8th in save %, 11th in GAA, 11th in saves, 1st in wins and 2nd in win %. Those numbers are all well above average.

Now if you want career stats, which can not be used to show that O'Connor got better while at BU and Millan didn't get worse, then I also have those. I have taken what I believe are all the Hockey East goalies who played a significant amount of games for their teams during at least one season and I created a spreadsheet of 44 goalies going back to 2008 (which I believe was the year you originally mentioned). So how do Millan and O'Connor stack up against the other 42 Hockey East goalies?
Games Played: Millan - 138 (2nd); O'Connor - 76 (21th); average - 72; median - 73
Minutes: Millan - 8188:19 (2nd); O'Connor - 4422:24 (20th); average - 4146:08; median - 4047:57
Saves: Millan - 3768 (1st); O'Connor - 2181 (16th); average - 1857; median 1868
Save %: Millan - 0.915 (16th); O'Connor - 0.921 (9th); average - 0.913; median - 0.9135
GAA: Millan - 2.58 (21st); O'Connor - 2.55 (20th); average - 2.56; median - 2.60
Wins: Millan - 81 (2nd); O'Connor - 40 (T-14th); average - 32; median - 32.5
Win %: Millan - 0.644 (5th); O'Connor - 0.634 (7th); average 0.522; median - 0.5295
Games Started: Millan - 137 (2nd); O'Connor - 74 (20th); average - 69; median - 67
Shutouts: Millan - 8 (9th); O'Connor - 1* (T-38th); average - 5; median - 4
* O'Connor was replaced by Moccia after 58:58 without giving up a goal vs Merrimack on 3/14/15

I have put the Hockey East goalies 2008-15 spreadsheet on Dropbox.

Sean

I guess this is where I'll argue thats stats don't tell the whole story. Particularly for goalies... There aren't any stats for bad rebounds and brutal goals that completely deflate your team. O.C. and Millan gave up alot of soft goals the last 6 years

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

but save percentage is a much more accurate barometer of a goalie than random fans' opinions.

No it's not, save percentage is a worthless pile of garbage. It has nothing to do with anything and is affected by nothing, especially the quality of your defensemen.

 

[Agganis]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

I guess this is where I'll argue thats stats don't tell the whole story. Particularly for goalies... There aren't any stats for bad rebounds and brutal goals that completely deflate your team. O.C. and Millan gave up alot of soft goals the last 6 years

Save% doesn't tell the whole story, but it tells much more of the story than your subjective opinion does.

 

[Hokydad]

And that's why, once Parker said that he was retiring, he -- and every single other member of the BU squad -- immediately jumped to the Q. BU turned into a flaming pile of trash, and stayed that way forever and ever, because David Quinn is terrible and no one wants to play for him.

Oh wait.

Without Eichel they would have been Merrimack
Eichel was there because of Parker

No matter how you spin it

Difference is Parker won the big games
Didn't have pucks bouncing in from center ice and brutal face off coverage off a time out to lose natl championship
Those chances don't come around that often

 

[defkit]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Without Eichel they would have been Merrimack
Eichel was there because of Parker

No matter how you spin it

Difference is Parker won the big games
Didn't have pucks bouncing in from center ice and brutal face off coverage off a time out to lose natl championship
Those chances don't come around that often

If we are going to star pinning this stuff on the coaches, then where were the big wins for Parker from 1998 until 2013? One great year, but beyond that, no Frozen Fours, a few Beanpots. BU was one win away from the FF in 1998 (lost on a SHG in OT, does that compare with poor faceoff coverage?), 2000, and a two or three other times, if memory serves. Couldn't beat MSU, North Dakota, UNH, Maine......

Parker won big games through 1997 (that win over Michigan has to be at the top of the list), but then it stopped. From that point on, the recruiting was still there (once Agannis opened, anyway), but the results weren't. Which is why a change was needed.

And Quinn didn't lose three National Championship games by giving up 5 goals in the second period in each one (two of which the team had 2 and 3 goal leads in at the time) - again, if we are going to blame Quinn for O'Connor's misplay.

Parker deserves credit for landing Eichel
Quinn deserves credit for 1) keeping Eichel from changing his mind when Parker resigned and 2) molding/developing/coaching Eichel and the rest of the team to the bext season this team has had since 1997, save 2009.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

Difference is Parker won the big games
Didn't have pucks bouncing in from center ice and brutal face off coverage off a time out to lose natl championship
Those chances don't come around that often

Except in 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1996 and 1997, and those are just NCAA Frozen Four games. There was also the 1984 NCAA quarterfinal failure at home against BGSU and Coach York, as well as many Hockey East semifinal losses. Here are Coach Parker’s records in ECAC/HE and NCAA semifinals and finals:
ECAC Tournament
ECAC semifinals: 5-2
ECAC finals: 4-1
great records
HE semifinals: 10-11 (0-6 vs Maine)
HE finals: 7-3
great in championship games, not so great in semifinals
NCAA semifinals: 6-7
NCAA finals: 3-3
again, not so great

Coach Parker vs Coach Quinn
First league regular season title
Parker: 3rd season
Quinn: 2nd season
First league tournament title
Parker: 1st season
Quinn: 2nd season
First NCAA win (excluding consolation games)
Parker: 5th season
Quinn: 2nd season
First NCAA championship game appearance
Parker: 5th season
Quinn: 2nd season
First NCAA Championship
Parker: 5th season
Quinn: ???
and just because
First Beanpot title
Parker: 2nd season
Quinn: 2nd season

And don't forget many of the players on Coach Parker's first several seasons were not recruited by him. Once the players were all his recruits what happened between 1978 and 1990?

Sean

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

I guess this is where I'll argue thats stats don't tell the whole story. Particularly for goalies... There aren't any stats for bad rebounds and brutal goals that completely deflate your team. O.C. and Millan gave up alot of soft goals the last 6 years

And BU scored no soft goals in the last six years...

I've already mentioned O'Connor's mistakes during the NCAA Tournament in previous posts. I also suggested that maybe there should be some superstats for goalies, but I guess you missed those posts.

And that brutal goal Ben Bishop gave up in game one vs Montreal completely deflated his team and they went on to lose, oh wait...

Sean

 

[RENCEB]

Re: BU season thread 4 - 2014-15 // destiny's children

without parkers 4/5 guys, this team was Merrimack again

Hey, that was uncalled for!