BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

[mookie1995]

I'm going to tell you right now and I'm being honest... not trying to be funny or a jerk, the higher ups are just happy the players aren't raping anyone anymore.

If you had added "and costing us $$$$ in donations" you would have nailed it.

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Just one man's opinion, but I will tell you this, there has been very little that has been entertaining with this team since Thanksgiving. I appreciate that I'm stating the obvious with a team that has won once since defeating Cornell. However, even when there have been disappointing seasons since the great run through the '90's, I still thought there was entertainment value.

This year, no, no, no. One drab effort after another. Two full lines, and at least one defense pairing, stocked with players who are marginal D1 players, at best. While driving home after many games I've asked myself, "Couldn't I have found something better to do tonight?" Certainly, I thought so last night.

My observation is that most student support was lost after the BC home game. College kids will always find something else to do. However, I've been struck by the number of older, longtime fans who are amazed the team has sunk to the depths it has.

 

[Rover]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

There is certinally something wrong this season and I've been to nearly every home game a couple of away games plus the beanpot. I disagree that this teams performance has anything to do with things that happened 15 years ago. The recruting has been sub par the par the past couple / few years I agree so the pure talent on the ice right now is not what we are accustomed to seeing, so that is playing a part for sure and can be pinned on Jack / Bavis etc.

As far as this year, what happened to the team that was 7-6 through Thanksgiving and was beating the teams they "should" and (for the most part at least) competing against the upper teams? How did that team turn into the 1-12-3 team that (with the exception of a copule of games) does not even go out and compete?

Plenty of blame to go around and I hope the administration gives Quinny some time to sort it all out and get through this outlier of a season.

I wonder what is going through the minds of the higher ups at BU right now?

Gotta disagree here. Go back to the years after the previous national championship in 1995. While I don't shower with recruits like some posters out here, I'm figuring the class of '96 was already committed, but the freshmen of '97 and '98 would have been recruited post championship glow. Those classes were awful. Poti IIRC was the only star player. That's when the program lost its fastball. Then we muddled for another 10 years with zero HE championships or FF appearances until a walk on 3rd string goalie turned out to be a superstar and won us our only meaningful hardware over the previous decade in 2006.

The same problems affecting the program then affect it now. Lack of player development. Off-ice issues. Players getting turfed. Constipated offense. This is what Quinn has inherited. Given that his ability to recruit NHL level talent last time gave us our only bright spot in almost two freakin' decades, I'm hoping it happens again. However, the troubles of this year didn't occur suddenly.

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I would say give DQ time and see what happens. When JY came in it took him awhile to get going and recruit his type of players to make it work. BC did not make a FF until 1998 when they lost in a thriller to UM. JP did not change or adjust with time and maybe that's where the decline begun. Some BU fans thought the new rink is what was needed but that doesn't always translate to wins. It's the people in the program not the rink.

This BU fan that used to rag on me that BU will out recruit BC and win more trophies as a result prove not true.

I would be ecstatic if Quinn's tenure follows the York model. Very bad the first season, competitive by the end of the second season, solid in the third season, ... everyone knows the rest.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Mookie did crack a smile to himself thinking "DQ must have seen the time and wanted to fax a resume to the west coast" yesterday when he saw Greeley left to be the only member of the coaching staff ho bothered to stay out and congratulate the winning uhn'ers post-game

 

[Jacques Joubert]

Just one man's opinion, but I will tell you this, there has been very little that has been entertaining with this team since Thanksgiving. I appreciate that I'm stating the obvious with a team that has won once since defeating Cornell. However, even when there have been disappointing seasons since the great run through the '90's, I still thought there was entertainment value.

This year, no, no, no. One drab effort after another. Two full lines, and at least one defense pairing, stocked with players who are marginal D1 players, at best. While driving home after many games I've asked myself, "Couldn't I have found something better to do tonight?" Certainly, I thought so last night.

My observation is that most student support was lost after the BC home game. College kids will always find something else to do. However, I'm been struck by the number of older, longtime fans who are amazed the team has sunk to the depths it has.

What you said. With very few exceptions I haven't been proud of the way this team competed. BU hockey used to be the highlight of my week. Now I'm wondering whether or not I'd like to skip the game and go out for dinner and drinks. I used to expect that they'd win in the 90s. Then I'd hope they'd win in the 2000s. Now I don't expect them to compete. It's sad.

 

[defkit]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Gotta disagree here. Go back to the years after the previous national championship in 1995. While I don't shower with recruits like some posters out here, I'm figuring the class of '96 was already committed, but the freshmen of '97 and '98 would have been recruited post championship glow. Those classes were awful. Poti IIRC was the only star player. That's when the program lost its fastball. Then we muddled for another 10 years with zero HE championships or FF appearances until a walk on 3rd string goalie turned out to be a superstar and won us our only meaningful hardware over the previous decade in 2006.

The same problems affecting the program then affect it now. Lack of player development. Off-ice issues. Players getting turfed. Constipated offense. This is what Quinn has inherited. Given that his ability to recruit NHL level talent last time gave us our only bright spot in almost two freakin' decades, I'm hoping it happens again. However, the troubles of this year didn't occur suddenly.

Good points. Was it BUOldTimer who had a great post several years ago that chronicled the downfall on the recruiting side? I remember something along the lines of listing a few mediocre classes and "then came the really bad class" (I think it included Juha Vuori).

I think the post Drury drop-off was driven primarily by the arena issue, plus BC upping their game with York. The "Parker getting old/losing the fire in his belly after Travis' injury/can't motivate/etc." was just getting started at that time. The challenges with the Roy/Walsh class didn't help. But then the recruiting picked back up with the new arena and IMHO the issue became more on Parker at that point. Beyond 2009 and 2006 there were some decent seasons where we weren't terrible, but the lack of consistency and getting over the hump was starting to fester. The off-ice issues and multiple voluntary departures have magnified what would usually be a dip, not a crater.

Now we are where we are, and we can only hope that we are just seeing the worst of it now.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I think the post Drury drop-off was driven primarily by the arena issue, plus BC upping their game with York.

I think worth mentioning is the drop-off in Massachusetts talent to some degree, as CM just went downhill fast and was a big feeder program for BU. Mass dried up for BU while York struck gold in New York with Reasoner, Farkas, Gionta, and Orpik. That helped get things moving to put local Massachusetts kids onto BC like Mottau, Bellefeuille, and Allen.

That will change things in a hurry. And it did.

 

[Cross Check]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I think worth mentioning is the drop-off in Massachusetts talent to some degree, as CM just went downhill fast and was a big feeder program for BU. Mass dried up for BU while York struck gold in New York with Reasoner, Farkas, Gionta, and Orpik. That helped get things moving to put local Massachusetts kids onto BC like Mottau, Bellefeuille, and Allen.

That will change things in a hurry. And it did.

Just look at the startling lack of MA presence on the USA Olympic for all the proof you need of the drop-off in MA talent. Especially when you compare to the amount of top end MA guys on say the 1996 World Cup team.

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

I think worth mentioning is the drop-off in Massachusetts talent to some degree, as CM just went downhill fast and was a big feeder program for BU. Mass dried up for BU while York struck gold in New York with Reasoner, Farkas, Gionta, and Orpik. That helped get things moving to put local Massachusetts kids onto BC like Mottau, Bellefeuille, and Allen.

That will change things in a hurry. And it did.

Good points. Within 2 years of BU winning it all in 1995, the following happened within the program:

Travis' tragedy
Blaise MacDonald (as Associate HC) leaving BU to start Niagara program. Replaced by Brian Durocher.
Parker himself almost leaving to take the B's HC job.

It's also worth noting that out of the incoming class following the 1995 NC, only 3 of the 6 in that class made it past their Sophomore year (O'Connell, Ronan, Larocque). We all know what happened to Travis, plus Scott King's academic issues and Brendan Walsh's transgressions.

Such attrition combined with 2 follow-up recruiting classes where BC landed most of BU's A-list targets (esp the top local talent as you mentioned) propagated the pendulum swing that hasn't swung back since.

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

Just look at the startling lack of MA presence on the USA Olympic for all the proof you need of the drop-off in MA talent. Especially when you compare to the amount of top end MA guys on say the 1996 World Cup team.

In terms of its context with BU, I think the program was a bit slow to recognize this shift starting in the late 1990s. While BC had already focused it's recruiting on burgeoning talent pools in NY, BU was still focusing heavily on local talent while making some in-roads to the newly formed USNTDP.

Such recognition of the changing landscape resulted in the push to build Agganis, followed by bringing Quinn in to augment recruiting throughout US & Canada.

It seems there has been a recent uptick in talent coming out of MA, including sons of former MA NHLers or other prominent college hockey players who were part of the Miracle on Ice generation. It'll be interesting to see how this next crop of MA talent will fare in college and possibly beyond.

 

[Rover]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

BU hockey right now reminds me of the Boston Bruins. Like the B's, the idea was that fans would come no matter what, so they can charge whatever they'd like and not make drastic changes to the program. Parker and Sinden were also similar. Two guys pretty much left alone to run the show with little input from their employers, who used to be widely successful but then hung around about 15 years too long as the game changed on them and they couldn't adapt.

Even the Monty Burns' owned Bruins finally smartened up when fans stopped coming, fired the Sinden/O'Connell regime (yes, I know they gave Sinden some no-show job afterwards), dropped prices and got better management in here. A few years later the drafting and talent got better, the war on players in contract years ended, and voila - a championship.

I can only hope BU is going through a similar period of reckoning right now with a championship on the horizon after a few years.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

BU was still focusing heavily on local talent while making some in-roads to the newly formed USNTDP.

Ahh I forgot about the USNTDP pipeline that produced many BU busts. Sabo, Miller (actually he wasn't all that bad), Maiser, McConnell... even Whitney was meh at BU, especially when he was playing on a bum wheel at the end and all the Section 8 fans were clamoring for him to go to Pittsburgh.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

It seems there has been a recent uptick in talent coming out of MA, including sons of former MA NHLers or other prominent college hockey players who were part of the Miracle on Ice generation. It'll be interesting to see how this next crop of MA talent will fare in college and possibly beyond.

There has been an apparent uptick over the past couple of years, but the classes of the last 5-10 years also were the ones who grew up during the dull doldrum years of the Bruins in the late 90s and early 2000s, so there wasn't the spark of a successful popular local pro team to increase the number of kids interested in playing the game. It'll be interesting to see how the Bruins recent success over the last ~five years affects the talent pool coming out of Mass and northern New England.

 

[mookie1995]

.....n Whitney was meh at BU, especially when he was playing on a bum wheel at the end and all the Section 8 fans were clamoring for him to go to Pittsburgh.

Now that was a student section (however misguided )

The kids we have now would just chant " whit nee!!! Whit née!! Whit née!!"

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Now that was a student section (however misguided )

The kids we have now would just chant " whit nee!!! Whit née!! Whit née!!"

Section 8 would no longer be at Agganis if they showed up, they'd have all been kicked out and permanently banned by the Blue Shirt Mafia three years ago.

 

[Rogie21]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Good points. Within 2 years of BU winning it all in 1995, the following happened within the program:

Travis' tragedy
Blaise MacDonald (as Associate HC) leaving BU to start Niagara program. Replaced by Brian Durocher.
Parker himself almost leaving to take the B's HC job.

It's also worth noting that out of the incoming class following the 1995 NC, only 3 of the 6 in that class made it past their Sophomore year (O'Connell, Ronan, Larocque). We all know what happened to Travis, plus Scott King's academic issues and Brendan Walsh's transgressions.

Such attrition combined with 2 follow-up recruiting classes where BC landed most of BU's A-list targets (esp the top local talent as you mentioned) propagated the pendulum swing that hasn't swung back since.

The '98 recruit class would have been a strong (or at least much stronger) one if Niko Dimitrakos and Peter Metcalf had been able to gain admission to their first choice. Clutch performers who had standout Hockey East careers.

 

[Rover]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Ahh I forgot about the USNTDP pipeline that produced many BU busts. Sabo, Miller (actually he wasn't all that bad), Maiser, McConnell... even Whitney was meh at BU, especially when he was playing on a bum wheel at the end and all the Section 8 fans were clamoring for him to go to Pittsburgh.

Whitney's problem was playing with a bunch of stiffs. If I had a quarter for every time he passed up ice only to have the puck hit the back of a forward's skate because he wasn't looking down or have it hop over his stick, I'd have enough money to purchase one of the boxes at Agganis. Always remember the game he decided to do it by himself and scored a hat trick instead of passing to teammates who treated the puck like a touch sensitive explosive device.

 

[buoldtimer]

Good points. Was it BUOldTimer who had a great post several years ago that chronicled the downfall on the recruiting side? I remember something along the lines of listing a few mediocre classes and "then came the really bad class" (I think it included Juha Vuori).

I think the post Drury drop-off was driven primarily by the arena issue, plus BC upping their game with York. The "Parker getting old/losing the fire in his belly after Travis' injury/can't motivate/etc." was just getting started at that time. The challenges with the Roy/Walsh class didn't help. But then the recruiting picked back up with the new arena and IMHO the issue became more on Parker at that point. Beyond 2009 and 2006 there were some decent seasons where we weren't terrible, but the lack of consistency and getting over the hump was starting to fester. The off-ice issues and multiple voluntary departures have magnified what would usually be a dip, not a crater.

Now we are where we are, and we can only hope that we are just seeing the worst of it now.

As mentioned below, the class that entered in the fall of 1995 (Travis, King, Walsh, Larocque) had problems. The next year there was a small class (Heron, Degerman, Lacouture), but Lacouture wasn't academically "orientated". The next year was a disaster - one real good player (Corrazini) and a bunch of KP's. After the slim pickings of the previous two classes, BU needed this bunch to step up, and received just the opposite. They stepped in it. When you add the class three years later (Johnson, Skladany, Magowan) it's evident why the program went into steep decline.

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

The '98 recruit class would have been a strong (or at least much stronger) one if Niko Dimitrakos and Peter Metcalf had been able to gain admission to their first choice. Clutch performers who had standout Hockey East careers.

That class had solid 4-year players (except for Dan Cavanaugh leaving after Junior year). Part of 2 substandard years as Freshmen and Juniors, but also part of 2 25-win teams that were 1 win away from advancing to the FF. Don't think anyone in that class underachieved individually, but they certainly would've been bolstered by those 2 local products who went on to be important players on excellent Maine teams.

As I'm replying I find it odd that some of us were here years ago complaining about 25-win seasons where BU loses the must-win games and fall short of advancing to the FF. I just hope the program can return to that point in the next few years so that we have "better" things to complain about. ;-)