BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

[buoldtimer]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Back in March most every BU fan I know of (myself included) was very excited by Quinn's hiring. However, there have been a couple of times of late where I fear the possibility of Quinn not making it thru his (5-year contract) and beyond. The fact that they're 1-10-3 since Red Hot Hockey leads me to think there's something amiss that is greater than what Quinn or anyone else has let on. By no means do I want a coaching change (except to replace Powers after this season with a far more capable assistant), nor do I think Parker would've done much better with this roster.

Can you substantiate Powers's shortcomings that mandate his replacement?

 

[Section Eight]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

What's this garbage I am hearing about the student section being an absolute joke? A Hockey East poll saying Agganis is the easiest place to play? Singing like it's Glee? What has happened?

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Can you substantiate Powers's shortcomings that mandate his replacement?

My understanding is one of Powers' primary responsibilities is to work with the defensemen as well as help set the defensive zone coverage, breakouts, etc. with all skaters. To quantify the difference between 2009-present versus 2004-2009, BU has allowed .66 goals/game more since Powers joined the staff.

They've averaged 3.02 GA (554 GA/183 GP) since start of 2009-2010 season :

2013-2014: 3.43 (96 GA/28 GP)
2012-2013: 2.82 (110 GA/39 GP)
2011-2012: 2.87 (112 GA/39 GP)
2010-2011: 2.87 (112 GA/39 GP)
2009-2010: 3.26 (124 GA/38 GP)

In the 5 years prior, the team averaged 2.36 GA (483 GA/205 GP).

2008-2009: 2.02 (91 GA/45 GP)
2007-2008: 2.93 (117 GA/40 GP)
2006-2007: 2.00 (78 GA/39 GP)
2005-2006: 2.40 (96 GA/40 GP)
2004-2005: 2.46 (101 GA/41 GP)

I don't think it's a coincidence that team defense has suffered the past 5 seasons with Powers on the staff.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

What's this garbage I am hearing about the student section being an absolute joke? A Hockey East poll saying Agganis is the easiest place to play? Singing like it's Glee? What has happened?

When was the last time you have been to Agganis? Come to a game and you will see.

Announced attendance is typically in the low 4000 range, but I suspect they are announcing tickets sold because a visual survey of the crowd tells you it is nowhere near that full. The student section 118 is generally fairly full but not packed, and the student section 108 is often almost empty.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

My understanding is one of Powers' primary responsibilities is to work with the defensemen as well as help set the defensive zone coverage, breakouts, etc. with all skaters. To quantify the difference between 2009-present versus 2004-2009, BU has allowed .66 goals/game more since Powers joined the staff.

They've averaged 3.02 GA (554 GA/183 GP) since start of 2009-2010 season :

2013-2014: 3.43 (96 GA/28 GP)
2012-2013: 2.82 (110 GA/39 GP)
2011-2012: 2.87 (112 GA/39 GP)
2010-2011: 2.87 (112 GA/39 GP)
2009-2010: 3.26 (124 GA/38 GP)

In the 5 years prior, the team averaged 2.36 GA (483 GA/205 GP).

2008-2009: 2.02 (91 GA/45 GP)
2007-2008: 2.93 (117 GA/40 GP)
2006-2007: 2.00 (78 GA/39 GP)
2005-2006: 2.40 (96 GA/40 GP)
2004-2005: 2.46 (101 GA/41 GP)

I don't think it's a coincidence that team defense has suffered the past 5 seasons with Powers on the staff.

Thanks for digging those up. Interesting stats to see. Of course though there are a lot of possible factors other than what Buddy has done from a coaching standpoint...recruiting / personnel / goalies etc. Not that there is anything wrong with our current goalie situation, but having Johnny Curry in net certainly didn't hurt the GAA prior to 2007.

This also made me laugh (and I'll be busting a few posters chops with this)... a lot of people didn't like our anemic defense first philosophy... have we moved away from that this year and are now giving up the most goals per game in the past 10 years? (Obviously lots of factors in play)

 

[Rover]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

This also made me laugh (and I'll be busting a few posters chops with this)... a lot of people didn't like our anemic defense first philosophy... have we moved away from that this year and are now giving up the most goals per game in the past 10 years? (Obviously lots of factors in play)

Playing all defense is just a mask for a lack of talent most of the time. Some teams can pull it off like Lowell, but even they screwed themselves last year when they went down by 2 goals, had to kill themselves to tie the game, and then were completely out of gas by the 3rd period in the FF.

By switching over, what we're seeing in the effect of these current players having to play a two way game, and the results are brutal. However, the switch is necessary. If these players can't skate, pass, or score they don't belong in the ice. Quinn wasn't going to know that until he played his system all year. Now he knows what he has (O'Regan, Hohmann, Bellerggisieriosgionston, O'Connor) and not much else.

Good info about Powers also. Didn't realize that.

My sense of BU is this - putrid defense plus struggle to play the way the coach wants is causing mindless turnovers and increased frustration at all the losses and mistakes. Add in what appears to be terrible senior leadership and we are where we are. As I've said before, Quinn's recruits need to be as good as advertised next year, so they can skate two good lines. If they're going to continue to improve however, that D needs to tighten up exponentially. Not sure who's coming in to help out there, or if it is indeed a matter of better coaching, but that's going to make a big difference in the team's fortunes.

 

[RefereeGrav]

My understanding is one of Powers' primary responsibilities is to work with the defensemen as well as help set the defensive zone coverage, breakouts, etc. with all skaters. To quantify the difference between 2009-present versus 2004-2009, BU has allowed .66 goals/game more since Powers joined the staff.

They've averaged 3.02 GA (554 GA/183 GP) since start of 2009-2010 season :



2013-2014: 3.43 (96 GA/28 GP)
2012-2013: 2.82 (110 GA/39 GP)
2011-2012: 2.87 (112 GA/39 GP)




2010-2011: 2.87 (112 GA/39 GP)
2009-2010: 3.26 (124 GA/38 GP)

In the 5 years prior, the team averaged 2.36 GA (483 GA/205 GP).

2008-2009: 2.02 (91 GA/45 GP)
2007-2008: 2.93 (117 GA/40 GP)
2006-2007: 2.00 (78 GA/39 GP)
2005-2006: 2.40 (96 GA/40 GP)
2004-2005: 2.46 (101 GA/41 GP)

I don't think it's a coincidence that team defense has suffered the past 5 seasons with Powers on the staff.

I think hiring Powers will go down as one of Parker's worst moves. When you're a head coach that's pushing 70 years old, you don't hire a guy in his 60's towards the end of his career that kids can't relate to.

I'm not directly blaming him for the departures and discipline stuff, but I'm sure having two coaches in their 60's didn't help.

Also, you could argue that Shattenkirk, Cohen, Warsofky Nicastro and Clendenning all made no improvement under him and all were highl nhlmdraft picks. (jury is still out on grizz)

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

What's this garbage I am hearing about the student section being an absolute joke? A Hockey East poll saying Agganis is the easiest place to play? Singing like it's Glee? What has happened?

Too long of an answer, so here's the cliff notes:
- The team has sucked since 2009 and lost nearly every big (read: BC) game at home
- The team has sucked since 2009 and lost to numerous putrid opponents such as Holy Cross and Bentley at home
- The Trivino/Nicastro messes turned away a lot of students on campus
- Consistent losses in the Beanpot and the Hockey East tournaments soured the excitement and anticipation of going to games at the Garden
- RSIG security presence after you graduated progressively got worse over the years to the point that the atmosphere was dampened due to a blue jacket wearing grandpa reading your lips the entire game. I noticed while I was still a student that some just stopped yelling or caring to have fun for fear of RSIG retribution. This has only gotten progressively worse in years since.


That said, there still remains a sizable core of kids extraordinarily dedicated, who still show up, home and away, despite how disgraceful the team has performed through the years, despite the legal messes they've made, despite the student sections being patrolled like an elementary school recess field. It's not like it was when you were around, or when I was, but those that are there deserve the credit for putting up with a hell of a lot more garbage and reasons to leave than we did. There's been virtually no excitement whatsoever around the program since 2009. The vast majority of headlines have either been another Beanpot loss to BC, player X accused of sexual assault, or another home loss to Holy Cross. It's a recipe to keep the new students from showing up to their first game and to drive away those who are disgusted.

That's not even to mention the dampening of the rest of the fans as well for all of the same reasons listed above. My guess is a few more wins, some time distance from the legal junk, perhaps some realization by the arena and BU that security can be scaled back and things will improve.

 

[Bomber]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

That being said, I think Quinn will be great in the long run and that the transition has had a lot more hiccups than anyone would have anticipated.

I realize this is your opinion and I hope you're right, but I haven't seen anything (except for the PC game in November) to support this statement. The talent is sub-par. The coaching has been worse. (poor effort, poor execution, no offensive flow or plan, porous defense.)

“A lack of urgency. Too often we’d get a puck and have no idea what to do with it.” - David Quinn, head hockey coach, Boston University. It's mid-February and his team doesn't know what to do with the puck.

I'm not calling for him to be fired. (We aren't the Cleveland Browns.) But, he needs to step his game up about 4 notches if he wants to be a successful D1 coach.

BU Hockey: On the BU Basketball Bandwagon.

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Thanks for digging those up. Interesting stats to see. Of course though there are a lot of possible factors other than what Buddy has done from a coaching standpoint...recruiting / personnel / goalies etc. Not that there is anything wrong with our current goalie situation, but having Johnny Curry in net certainly didn't hurt the GAA prior to 2007.

This also made me laugh (and I'll be busting a few posters chops with this)... a lot of people didn't like our anemic defense first philosophy... have we moved away from that this year and are now giving up the most goals per game in the past 10 years? (Obviously lots of factors in play)

There are several factors beyond just Powers' coaching aptitude in the regression of team defense. FWIW I really don't know how much better Millan or Curry would have made this team.

I've been critical of Powers b/c from my observations plus info from sources closer to the program, my takeaway has been he's brought little/no value. I was very surprised that Parker hired Powers after he'd been out of coaching for 7 years when I firmly believe Parker had other options (namely offering John Hynes the Associate HC job instead of promoting Bavis and then offering Hynes the Assistant job). I was even more surprised that following Parker's retirement, Powers remained on the staff for this season.

It's important for any head coach to be surrounded by good assistant coaches. And given the speculation that this is it for Powers (I believe when hired he signed a 5-year contract), if Quinn hires a new assistant coach for next season I'll be very curious to see whom candidates are.

 

[Terrier520]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

The man knows talent. My guess is that it didn't take him very long to appreciate that the cupboard was bare. This is a throwaway season. Perhaps his goal is to install his system, identify the guys who are bonafide D1 players from the guys who should be playing D3, and identify who "his guys" are.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a housecleaning of sorts this spring, though this is just speculation on my part. Just too many guys who can't play D1 hockey.

This is what I got from talking to him.

One story I heard from him was that, when Quinn was coaching Lake Erie in 2010-2011, one of his defenseman, named Shattenkirk, was playing like dog turd. Long story short, Quinn straightens out Shattenkirk. The rest is history.

Don't be surprised when, now that he can bring in more players, we'll see a better team. I'm just wondering when we'll hit bottom.

 

[defkit]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Just too many guys who can't play D1 hockey.

This was never more evident to me than last night while watching both games in person. If that BU team played against that BC team, the score could have been 15-0. I'm not sure how we played them so close a week ago, but both teams looked very different last night. BC is a friggin machine. They belong in a separate division than this years BU team. Their ability to transition from d to offense is stunning, due to their speed. I'm not kidding when I say that I saw more great passes and plays from BC (and NU for that matter) in about four minutes than I saw in 60 from BU.

I think a major roster change is definitely in order and I think that is why we have seen our recruiting class grow so large. I know injuries and defections ave forced DQ's roster this season, but the number of players on this team that would not make a Top Ten team roster not small. Honestly, after Baillergeon, O'Regan, Rodrigues, Hohmann, and Lane, nobody should consider themselves safe. and even Hohmann should really be on a third line, second line at best. I like what I see out of Duane, from a long-term perspective, I think he can turn into a very solid third liner. But he isn't there now.

On D, I think Somerby will mature into a good player, maybe even a dominating force. Ahti looks like he'll be an enigma for his whole career, but his offense will keep him in the line-up. Grizzy is clearly a top shelf player. But McAfee will have to work hard to stay in the lineup next season. And the two seniors, well, they won't be missed. Noonan had some good years with this team, but this isn't one of them.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

THonestly, after Baillergeon, O'Regan, Rodrigues, Hohmann, and Lane, nobody should consider themselves safe.

Add Gryzkljasklalck to this list. Beyond that, I agree. There's quite a few guys on the roster who are going to have to work real hard to show they deserve a spot on the ice next season. That said, it does provide a nice opportunity for Quinn to tell the incoming freshman, if you come in and perform, you've got a wide open door to be getting lots and lots of ice time.

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Add Gryzkljasklalck to this list. Beyond that, I agree. There's quite a few guys on the roster who are going to have to work real hard to show they deserve a spot on the ice next season. That said, it does provide a nice opportunity for Quinn to tell the incoming freshman, if you come in and perform, you've got a wide open door to be getting lots and lots of ice time.

For returning players whom Quinn may have difficult conversations with this offseason...If they commit themselves to working their hardest to earn a roster spot next season and end up getting rewarded for their efforts where we see much improved play from them, those players will certainly earn my respect.

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I'm not kidding when I say that I saw more great passes and plays from BC (and NU for that matter) in about four minutes than I saw in 60 from BU.

Agree 110%. This BU team would've been (and could be in 3 weekends) blitzed by the NU team I saw last night.

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

The roster turnover in recent years has been quite astounding. From the 2011-12 team, only Noonan, MacGregor, Moscatel, Ronan, Moccia, Hohmann and Rodrigues remain, of which only Noonan, MacGregor, Hohmann and Rodrigues were regulars. Noonan is also the only regular from the 2010-11 team that remains.

The following players who had eligibility remaining this season have all departed:

Clendening
Coyle
Gill
Nieto
Cisse
Privitera (Alexx)
Myron
Kurker

Of that list it would have been reasonable to expect Gill, Cisse, Privitera, Myron and Kurker to be on this year's roster. Not that it would have turned this year's team into world-beaters, but they'd probably be a better than they are right now.

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Add Gryzkljasklalck to this list. Beyond that, I agree. There's quite a few guys on the roster who are going to have to work real hard to show they deserve a spot on the ice next season. That said, it does provide a nice opportunity for Quinn to tell the incoming freshman, if you come in and perform, you've got a wide open door to be getting lots and lots of ice time.

If the incoming freshmen aren't aware of that fact, I'd be afraid to bring them in.

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

The roster turnover in recent years has been quite astounding. From the 2011-12 team, only Noonan, MacGregor, Moscatel, Ronan, Moccia, Hohmann and Rodrigues remain, of which only Noonan, MacGregor, Hohmann and Rodrigues were regulars. Noonan is also the only regular from the 2010-11 team that remains.

The following players who had eligibility remaining this season have all departed:

Clendening
Coyle
Gill
Nieto
Cisse
Privitera (Alexx)
Myron
Kurker

Of that list it would have been reasonable to expect Gill, Cisse, Privitera, Myron and Kurker to be on this year's roster. Not that it would have turned this year's team into world-beaters, but they'd probably be a better than they are right now.

Just thinking of Cisse and Myron gives me an ice cream headache.

 

[defkit]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

HAvne't read the BP thread, so maybe this was brought up, but two plays last night told the story:

1. MacGregor tips the puck top shelf over Maguire shoulder on a pass through the crease.

2. While shorthanded, two BU forwards have a chance at a breakaway, if not a 2 on 0. Was it Roberto and O'Regan? One gets te puck inside out blue line sees his streaking teamate with no Crimson in site. he sends the puck ahead for wat should be a breakaway, but it goes about a foot too far ahead of the other forward, who can't corral it in until he has put himself too far wide of the net. This was not a difficult pass to make - maybe a 15 foot pass with nobody in between them.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

If the incoming freshmen aren't aware of that fact, I'd be afraid to bring them in.

I'm sure they're aware. It's another thing when the coach sits them down and says it directly to their face just how wide open that door is.