BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

[chickod]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

You can't teach speed or necessarily condition it. Either you have it or you don't up to a certain point.

OK. So that begs the question, doesn't it? If the NFL can have combines and every possible statistic on a player, I'm sure that we have similar information on hockey players. So how could we have recruited all of these "slow" players? Not disagreeing..just somewhat perplexed. I agree that the intangibles are often "hit or miss." But speed? That's something that is quantifiable. How does a top-flight Division I program suddenly "overlook" something as fundamental as speed and/or skating ability? I mean, that's kind of what the game is, right? Would you recruit a pitcher who throws 70? For that matter, would you recruit a math student who can't understand trigonometry? It just seems kind of obvious, doesn't it? Maybe you can't measure heart, but you can certainly measure speed. Yeah, I know that there's "power skating" lessons and all that, but one would think at this point that you are comparing apples to apples and relative to other players at this level, someone is not going to improve THAT much if they haven't already.

 

[Rover]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

OK. So that begs the question, doesn't it? If the NFL can have combines and every possible statistic on a player, I'm sure that we have similar information on hockey players. So how could we have recruited all of these "slow" players? Not disagreeing..just somewhat perplexed. I agree that the intangibles are often "hit or miss." But speed? That's something that is quantifiable. How does a top-flight Division I program suddenly "overlook" something as fundamental as speed and/or skating ability? I mean, that's kind of what the game is, right? Would you recruit a pitcher who throws 70? For that matter, would you recruit a math student who can't understand trigonometry? It just seems kind of obvious, doesn't it? Maybe you can't measure heart, but you can certainly measure speed. Yeah, I know that there's "power skating" lessons and all that, but one would think at this point that you are comparing apples to apples and relative to other players at this level, someone is not going to improve THAT much if they haven't already.

Its an easier explanation than you might think. Jack Parker liked 4th line grinders. He liked them on his team and recruitment post-Quinn reflected that. Add to that all of the departures of skilled players and you're left with a slow, not very skilled team as a result of looking for a type of player to play a NJ Devils circa 1995 game and having other people leave early for various reasons.

Quinn could either 1) grind it out and lose to the teams who are far better at playing that game (Lowell for example), or 2) Put in his own style for the benefit of the few skilled players he does have (O'Regan, Ballagereragersionaronnn, Hohmann) knowing most of the team can't play it but with the knowledge these current players will get a lot less ice time if he can land good recruits next year. I can live with his approach, provided he actually gets those impact recruits next year.

 

[chickod]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Quinn could either 1) grind it out and lose to the teams who are far better at playing that game (Lowell for example), or 2) Put in his own style for the benefit of the few skilled players he does have.

When you frame it that way, I vote for option #2!!!! And hopefully you have also clarified why things are "so bad" this year, while at the same time providing hope that there doesn't have to be an "extended" down period before things improve significantly!

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Quinn could either 1) grind it out and lose to the teams who are far better at playing that game (Lowell for example), or 2) Put in his own style for the benefit of the few skilled players he does have

I think we're already seeing option 2 being implemented. That option doesn't necessarily mean one needs to have Tony Amonte-type speed to thrive, but must be able to think, see and react to the game faster (along with having requisite speed). The grinding, cycling, dump/chase style of play doesn't demand quite as much of those traits.

There have been many times this season where I've seen a player try to execute something, but is either a half-step too slow and/or takes a half-second too long -- thus turning something into a missed opportunity.

FWIW, I disagree with the skating assessment to an extent. It's definitely true that some guys have it and can do something with it (i.e. Amonte, McEachern, Bates, Nieto), others have it but can't consistently put everything together (i.e. Corazzini), and some don't but can still thrive in almost any system b/c of their hockey IQ and hands (i.e. Bonino).

IIRC, neither Mike Pandolfo, Eric Gryba, Zach Cohen nor Nick Bonino were even average skaters for D-1 when they arrived at BU; by the time they were upperclassmen their skating improved significantly. Not necessarily their speed, but overall strength and agility enabling them to execute that half-second faster when needed (i.e. a full Gryba smash instead of a glancing blow ).

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

their hockey IQ

This touches on another thing that's become a huge problem with this team, so many of them simply do not have good hockey instincts and are all five to 10 seconds behind the play mentally. Instead of anticipating where the play is going to go, (in all zones) they react and try to catch up, which few have the speed to do successfully. So you combine substandard speed, poor hockey IQ, collectively mediocre talent, and injuries, and you have a recipe for a sub .500 team.

I too am hoping this is a case of things have to get worse before they get better, and some of Parker's players who don't fit into Quinn's system will get weeded out, graduate, etc., and the very promising recruits he has coming in over the next couple of years as well as some of the current talent we do have will right the ship.

 

[Rogie21]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

FWIW, I disagree with the skating assessment to an extent. It's definitely true that some guys have it and can do something with it (i.e. Amonte, McEachern, Bates, Nieto), others have it but can't consistently put everything together (i.e. Corazzini), and some don't but can still thrive in almost any system b/c of their hockey IQ and hands (i.e. Bonino).

IIRC, neither Mike Pandolfo, Eric Gryba, Zach Cohen nor Nick Bonino were even average skaters for D-1 when they arrived at BU; by the time they were upperclassmen their skating improved significantly. Not necessarily their speed, but overall strength and agility enabling them to execute that half-second faster when needed (i.e. a full Gryba smash instead of a glancing blow ).

Good points on skating. Bonino struggled with speed during first semester as freshman, then rapidly improved. And look at him now.

A few observations:

It goes without saying that overall talent and depth are currently lacking. Of the seven freshman forwards (counting Ryan), only Baillargeon and Roberto have shown they’re ready for regular D1 duty. Maybe Duane, but as a 3rd or 4th liner until his speed improves. The Kurker failure to develop hurt a lot, as did losing Gill late in the summer, which cannot be underestimated. He was on pace to be a 100-point scorer and was one of the team’s best penalty-killers. With him, it’s reasonable to say, the offense and PK would be at least incrementally better. Definitely a bit smarter.

Let’s not act as if the whole forward crew will be turned over and produce instant offense. Eight of the 12 returning current forwards (again counting Ryan) are likely to be in the line-up, joined by four freshman forwards. They good news is that several skaters, who now are on the 2nd or 3rd line out of necessity, will be skating on the fourth line.

A seat-of-the pants stab at next year’s lines:
Rodrigues-Baillargeon-O’Regan
Lane-Eichel-Roberto
Phelps-Hohmann-Piccinich
Greer-Moran-Duane
Collier-Kelley-Ryan
Lawrence

 

[steakbomb]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I find it ironic that one of the topics of discussion now is about who on the ice is not a D1 player. When I first bought season tickets ('06-07 season) I thoroughly enjoyed watching the 3d and 4th line guys go out and literally beat the crap out of the opposition. I.E. Weston, McCarthy, Mcguirk. Quite a far cry from the depth that exists today

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I find it ironic that one of the topics of discussion now is about who on the ice is not a D1 player. When I first bought season tickets ('06-07 season) I thoroughly enjoyed watching the 3d and 4th line guys go out and literally beat the crap out of the opposition. I.E. Weston, McCarthy, Mcguirk. Quite a far cry from the depth that exists today

It's now a combination of we don't have many 4th line grinders who can do that, combined with the fact that those we do have are on the 2nd and 3rd lines trying to produce offensively out of necessity, instead of focusing on being physical and being used situationally against another team's scoring line to out muscle them.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I find it ironic that one of the topics of discussion now is about who on the ice is not a D1 player. When I first bought season tickets ('06-07 season) I thoroughly enjoyed watching the 3d and 4th line guys go out and literally beat the crap out of the opposition. I.E. Weston, McCarthy, Mcguirk. Quite a far cry from the depth that exists today

If you had a few Eric Thomassians you'd be all set for Monday night.

 

[Friend_of_BU_Hockey]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

It goes without saying that overall talent and depth are currently lacking. Of the seven freshman forwards (counting Ryan), only Baillargeon and Roberto have shown they’re ready for regular D1 duty. Maybe Duane, but as a 3rd or 4th liner until his speed improves. The Kurker failure to develop hurt a lot, as did losing Gill late in the summer, which cannot be underestimated. He was on pace to be a 100-point scorer and was one of the team’s best penalty-killers. With him, it’s reasonable to say, the offense and PK would be at least incrementally better. Definitely a bit smarter.

Let’s not act as if the whole forward crew will be turned over and produce instant offense. Eight of the 12 returning current forwards (again counting Ryan) are likely to be in the line-up, joined by four freshman forwards. They good news is that several skaters, who now are on the 2nd or 3rd line out of necessity, will be skating on the fourth line.

Agreed that there's unlikely to be major turnover amongst returning forwards based on this year's results. What is likely to happen is the normalization of the team's depth based on the overall talent pool.

It wouldn't surprise me to see some of the current 2nd/3rd liners end up being more productive as 4th liners (compared to their current output) because they have one (more) year under their belt and are more likely to be matched against opposing 3rd/4th lines. Guys who are better fit to be role players should be more successful when actually put in a position to fulfill such roles.

 

[Rover]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Good points on skating. Bonino struggled with speed during first semester as freshman, then rapidly improved. And look at him now.

A few observations:

It goes without saying that overall talent and depth are currently lacking. Of the seven freshman forwards (counting Ryan), only Baillargeon and Roberto have shown they’re ready for regular D1 duty. Maybe Duane, but as a 3rd or 4th liner until his speed improves. The Kurker failure to develop hurt a lot, as did losing Gill late in the summer, which cannot be underestimated. He was on pace to be a 100-point scorer and was one of the team’s best penalty-killers. With him, it’s reasonable to say, the offense and PK would be at least incrementally better. Definitely a bit smarter.

Let’s not act as if the whole forward crew will be turned over and produce instant offense. Eight of the 12 returning current forwards (again counting Ryan) are likely to be in the line-up, joined by four freshman forwards. They good news is that several skaters, who now are on the 2nd or 3rd line out of necessity, will be skating on the fourth line.

A seat-of-the pants stab at next year’s lines:
Rodrigues-Baillargeon-O’Regan
Lane-Eichel-Roberto
Phelps-Hohmann-Piccinich
Greer-Moran-Duane
Collier-Kelley-Ryan
Lawrence

I like the 1st line. Is there any possibility of pairing Hohmann with Eichel? I'd rather not see him buried on the 3rd line. If they can be put together that's a pretty good 1-2 to be rolling out every game.

 

[mookie1995]

If you had a few Eric Thomassians you'd be all set for Monday night.

Aka "the bc killer"

 

[Rogie21]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

If you had a few Eric Thomassians you'd be all set for Monday night.

"Word on the street" (remember him? ) says all the Terriers will wear Justin Maiser sweaters on Monday.

 

[steakbomb]

Aka "the bc killer"

While we're on the topic of the BP I still remember the Sullivan hit on Gerbe. Still not sure how he got up from that one. I felt it in the balcony.

And yes, Thomassian was a name I shouldn't have forgotten.

Monday night will be the 36th anniversary of the night I almost made it home from the BP .....blizzard of '78

 

[T Anthonys]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Only time Eichel will skate on BU ice is when his NHL team comes to play the Bruins. That or when he works out over his summers. No way he makes it to BU

 

[Jofa]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Only time Eichel will skate on BU ice is when his NHL team comes to play the Bruins. That or when he works out over his summers. No way he makes it to BU

Or in maroon and gold, yikes!

 

[defkit]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Only time Eichel will skate on BU ice is when his NHL team comes to play the Bruins. That or when he works out over his summers. No way he makes it to BU

Thanks for joining the board to contribute this gem. Care to expand on your prediction? Where is he going if not to BU? The second Q team that drafted him after the first one gave up his rights after becoming convinced they couldn't get him to come?

 

[Terrance]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

Its an easier explanation than you might think. Jack Parker liked 4th line grinders. He liked them on his team and recruitment post-Quinn reflected that. Add to that all of the departures of skilled players and you're left with a slow, not very skilled team as a result of looking for a type of player to play a NJ Devils circa 1995 game and having other people leave early for various reasons.

I would love to watch a bunch of Joe Pereiras skate around hustling and fighting for the puck and getting dirty goals. That's what 4th line grinders do. They outwork teams force mistakes and generate opportunities. They're pesky and persistant. They get on teams' nerves and force them to take stupid penalties or turn over the puck.

Quinn could either 1) grind it out and lose to the teams who are far better at playing that game (Lowell for example), or 2) Put in his own style for the benefit of the few skilled players he does have (O'Regan, Ballagereragersionaronnn, Hohmann) knowing most of the team can't play it but with the knowledge these current players will get a lot less ice time if he can land good recruits next year.

I understand the strategy behind this, but since O'Regan, Baillargeon, and Hohmann are already on the first line and they are the ones who are supposed to be able to execute his style, shouldn't they be doing better? They are the most productive line, but that's not saying a whole lot and they certainly aren't a first line on a top 20 (30 even?) team in the country regardless of the lines behind them. If the way O'Regan, Baillargeon, and Hohmann are playing now is the great style BU is suffering this year to implement next year then that should be cause for concern.

Ballagereragersionaronnn

I listened to a post game where Quinn definitely pronounces it as Ballargeron. I assume the coach would know how to pronounce it, but I've never heard of pronouncing an R where there isn't one. Maybe he's just trying to make up for all the R's people drop around here.

This touches on another thing that's become a huge problem with this team, so many of them simply do not have good hockey instincts and are all five to 10 seconds behind the play mentally. Instead of anticipating where the play is going to go, (in all zones) they react and try to catch up, which few have the speed to do successfully. So you combine substandard speed, poor hockey IQ, collectively mediocre talent, and injuries, and you have a recipe for a sub .500 team.

I think this might be exactly what's going on. They're just fighting to keep their head above water the entire game. Unfortunately they can't swim very well and they're wearing lead boots. Let's not sugarcoat it though. This team is much closer to .250 than .500.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I listened to a post game where Quinn definitely pronounces it as Ballargeron. I assume the coach would know how to pronounce it, but I've never heard of pronouncing an R where there isn't one. Maybe he's just trying to make up for all the R's people drop around here.

Bernie's attempts to get it right during the exhibition back in October were priceless.

 

[claver2010]

Re: BU 2013-14 (Part II): Crash before the Phoenix

I would love to watch a bunch of Joe Pereiras skate around hustling and fighting for the puck and getting dirty goals.

And we'd be blessed with more shreiks of JOEY! so that would be another benefit.