Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
This is an irresponsible and ignorant statement.
This is an irresponsible and ignorant statement.
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Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
- Thread starter Mike Hutter
- Start date
This. Brown isn't really a destination for top-tier college hockey prospects (or coaches), for a multitude of reasons. The fact that Whittet has landed some good recruits is pretty incredible, considering the competition he has and the limitations imposed upon him by the administration.
I'm not ready to throw him under the bus quite yet. And, just a quick reminder: he had to build this program from SCRATCH because of the way Roger Grillo destroyed it. It's much better to be frustrated with a team that underperforms than to not even expect to win more than 5 games a season, like we did for many of the Grillo years.
I think we're all ready to throw in the towel on this season, so you guys can just have this one.
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
I think it's not only premature but also a bit silly to call for Coach Whittet's resignation at this time.
Have you forgotten where this program was five years ago (when I began to post to this list)? There was no sense of direction and no plan of action for the hockey program. Brown was the laughing stock of Division I hockey. The new coaching staff has restored credibility to the program. Since 2009 Brown has made two trips to the ECAC Final Four and has won eleven playoff games (and lost nine). With the right bounces and a couple more goals Brown would have made the national tournament last year. By all accounts Brown has solid classes entering in 2014 (even without a goalie whose high income family knew Brown didn't offer athletic scholarships, but evidently believed they were entitled to financial aid because their son was a good athlete) and 2015 (even without a forward who couldn't crack the minimum academic index, as widely reported).
And, please, stop calling yourself a "devoted fan." "A whining fan" would be more appropriate.
I think it's not only premature but also a bit silly to call for Coach Whittet's resignation at this time.
Have you forgotten where this program was five years ago (when I began to post to this list)? There was no sense of direction and no plan of action for the hockey program. Brown was the laughing stock of Division I hockey. The new coaching staff has restored credibility to the program. Since 2009 Brown has made two trips to the ECAC Final Four and has won eleven playoff games (and lost nine). With the right bounces and a couple more goals Brown would have made the national tournament last year. By all accounts Brown has solid classes entering in 2014 (even without a goalie whose high income family knew Brown didn't offer athletic scholarships, but evidently believed they were entitled to financial aid because their son was a good athlete) and 2015 (even without a forward who couldn't crack the minimum academic index, as widely reported).
And, please, stop calling yourself a "devoted fan." "A whining fan" would be more appropriate.
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
From an outsider looking in at Brown. Since Whittet arrived there has been a common theme around the league. Nobody wants to see Brown in the playoff's. I think that is a sign of a good coach who utilizes the talent he has to work with. Brown has one of the best first lines in the league, after that anyones guess. So my opinion is that he gets the best out of what he has been dealt. .
From an outsider looking in at Brown. Since Whittet arrived there has been a common theme around the league. Nobody wants to see Brown in the playoff's. I think that is a sign of a good coach who utilizes the talent he has to work with. Brown has one of the best first lines in the league, after that anyones guess. So my opinion is that he gets the best out of what he has been dealt. .
DarthBruno
The Force is with Brown hockey.
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
But it's all of a piece, isn't it? Utter lack of interest in the hockey program where it counts at Brown. I'm not blaming Brendan for the disappointing record all by himself. He's a great guy. Maybe if he had the right facilities, a sympathetic admission office, yadda yadda, he'd be a brilliant coach. I do believe Brown got him cheap because he wanted to make the jump to head coach at a D1 school. He was not a proven entity.
What I've said about the men's program applies equally to the women's. 15-20 years ago our woman played an exciting brand of hockey with stars like Tara Mounsey, Katie King, and several notable goalies. Now, the women are perennial chumps.
It's also true that the Brown men (as others have pointed out here) can take just about anybody in a playoff game. Why is that? Can we isolate what happens in those amazing upsets and try to generalize it for the players? (By "we" I mean the coaches.)
I don't think anyone here should feel angry at a truly long-time loyal fan like me who makes observations about a mediocre (yes) program. Do I have a constructive suggestion? Yes. Stop playing hockey in D1 and the Ivy league, and go D3. We'd attract some very bright, high quality players who would come here on Brown's academic terms and have a chance to enjoy winning at Meehan and on the road.
(ducking)
But it's all of a piece, isn't it? Utter lack of interest in the hockey program where it counts at Brown. I'm not blaming Brendan for the disappointing record all by himself. He's a great guy. Maybe if he had the right facilities, a sympathetic admission office, yadda yadda, he'd be a brilliant coach. I do believe Brown got him cheap because he wanted to make the jump to head coach at a D1 school. He was not a proven entity.
What I've said about the men's program applies equally to the women's. 15-20 years ago our woman played an exciting brand of hockey with stars like Tara Mounsey, Katie King, and several notable goalies. Now, the women are perennial chumps.
It's also true that the Brown men (as others have pointed out here) can take just about anybody in a playoff game. Why is that? Can we isolate what happens in those amazing upsets and try to generalize it for the players? (By "we" I mean the coaches.)
I don't think anyone here should feel angry at a truly long-time loyal fan like me who makes observations about a mediocre (yes) program. Do I have a constructive suggestion? Yes. Stop playing hockey in D1 and the Ivy league, and go D3. We'd attract some very bright, high quality players who would come here on Brown's academic terms and have a chance to enjoy winning at Meehan and on the road.
(ducking)
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
From another outsider. I think KW is an excellent coach (and happy that Rick Bennett was turned down for the job when he applied for the opening). My guess is that there is a a lack of support from the administration which may be insurmountable. I believe he is or was the lowest paid coach in the ECAC a league that doesn't exactly throw money around. Getting to the finals last year at AC was no mean feat and the team came to play.
From another outsider. I think KW is an excellent coach (and happy that Rick Bennett was turned down for the job when he applied for the opening). My guess is that there is a a lack of support from the administration which may be insurmountable. I believe he is or was the lowest paid coach in the ECAC a league that doesn't exactly throw money around. Getting to the finals last year at AC was no mean feat and the team came to play.
Last edited:
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
Maybe just a wee over-reaction. ;-)
Brown's history has had periods of strong teams in a creepily consistent pattern in years ending in 3, 4 and 5. (Could this only be a coincidence?) This is actually the first decade to mess up the pattern. Point being Brown seems to be able to pull it together every decade, but never seems to be able to get past one golden recruiting class and have staying power.
The Bears played a very smart tactical game against us in Providence and only our hot goalie kept them from winning. They have a coaching staff that seems to be able to analyze opponents and develop a good plan. Oddly, they are probably as good a team now as they have been during the last few up cycles -- they are just playing in a significantly improved conference.
Maybe just a wee over-reaction. ;-)
Brown's history has had periods of strong teams in a creepily consistent pattern in years ending in 3, 4 and 5. (Could this only be a coincidence?) This is actually the first decade to mess up the pattern. Point being Brown seems to be able to pull it together every decade, but never seems to be able to get past one golden recruiting class and have staying power.
The Bears played a very smart tactical game against us in Providence and only our hot goalie kept them from winning. They have a coaching staff that seems to be able to analyze opponents and develop a good plan. Oddly, they are probably as good a team now as they have been during the last few up cycles -- they are just playing in a significantly improved conference.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
Well thank you, Malcolm Portera.
Well thank you, Malcolm Portera.
Mike Hutter
Brown Wins!
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
I won't shoot the messenger but like Euler your comments about coaching staff are way off base.
True, the season so far has been disappointing and certainly we were expecting more from the freshmen in terms of scoring, but as LTSatch has put it - as coaches don't like to play Brown, there is certainly the nucleus of a good team here.
Yes, I am the eternal optimist here but I see Brown taking SLU and then being the lowest remaining seed at the end of next week's games playing U the following week with the potential for an upset, provided we get some scoring
I won't shoot the messenger but like Euler your comments about coaching staff are way off base.
True, the season so far has been disappointing and certainly we were expecting more from the freshmen in terms of scoring, but as LTSatch has put it - as coaches don't like to play Brown, there is certainly the nucleus of a good team here.
Yes, I am the eternal optimist here but I see Brown taking SLU and then being the lowest remaining seed at the end of next week's games playing U the following week with the potential for an upset, provided we get some scoring
hockeyplayer1015
Capt
I think we're all ready to throw in the towel on this season, so you guys can just have this one.
That's funny, because I'm fairly certain most of us SLU fans feel the same way. We aren't going to let you give the series to us that easily
. This might just be a series of "which team wants to give it away more", heh.That's funny, because I'm fairly certain most of us SLU fans feel the same way. We aren't going to let you give the series to us that easily
I just saw a tweet about this series that said the loser wins the title of most disappointing team in the league this season. That's pretty accurate.
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
My name is Scott and I approve of this message
My name is Scott and I approve of this message
And the winner comes in second!
BrunoFan00
Registered User
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
I'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Let's face it: this was a disappointing season that had the cloud of who wasn't on the roster still hanging over it, as much as those who did. There was no consistent replacement for Anthony Borelli, Widman and Carrier were gone, and, well, there was a certain forward playing at Northeastern who would have made a difference. And perhaps this team peaked a bit early. My feeling is that this team never regained its collecting confidence after the first five minutes at Yale - they were not consistently the same team. Is that on the coaches and team leadership? Yes. But for whatever reason, it didn't recover as nicely as we would have liked.
A difficult comparison to make. 15-20 years ago, the women's team did not have scholarship programs within its own league, never mind the country, with whom to compete. There was no Clarkson, no Mercyhurst, no RPI (not a power, but a challenge), no Cornell commitment to women's hockey (they were historically awful until Doug Derraugh took over and started bringing in Olympic-caliber athletes), and never mind the bigger state schools. On top of it, women's hockey's exponential growth also coincided with the change in girls playing with girls and not boys, which I can and have contended has changed the pace of the game - and the talent that has emerged from the high school/prep ranks.
However, you make a valid point in that the playing field for the Brown women is similar to the men, and as teams like Harvard and Cornell (and typically Dartmouth, this year notwithstanding) have remained near the top of the nation. I'm not sure whether that lies in admissions, financial aid, recruiting, or, in all likelihood, all three, but the sports are now very similar. My feeling is that once Digit Murphy stopped getting the same type of player in around 2005 or 2006 or so, the program never truly recovered. If the Brown women face #1 Minnesota, that game is over before it starts. If the Brown men face #1 BC, #3 Union, or any of the other 16 ranked teams the Bears faced this year, they have a shot to win. That's the biggest difference, and that speaks to Brendan Whittet's ability to attract exceptional talent.
This season isn't over. If Brown beats SLU, advances to the second round, and even beyond, what will be saying then? No doubt - I'm as disappointed as anyone about the final record and a 9th place finish. But I'll refrain from a full referendum on the coaching staff. I think that is foolhardy at best, though, yes, I too sometimes feel like I'm a Columbia football fan.
The one piece of this that I think is most disappointing is where we are in the path toward overall success. In 2003, five years after taking over as Brown coach, Roger Grillo had the Bears in the ECAC final four, and in 2004, the Bears were ranked nationally in the top ten. The same could be said about Bob Gaudet in his fourth, fifth, and sixth seasons (1993-95 were very, very good years for Brown hockey). By that same estimation, 2014-2017 should be where this team would presumably turn the corner. Similarly, Bob Gaudet, whose blueprint would be likely for Coach Whittet to follow, it was 2003 when his Big Green turned the corner and went 20-13 after basically going .500 in 2000, 2001 and 2002. (They didn't finish first until 2006, his 10th season - and Dartmouth's hockey history was about as spotty as Brown's if you consider what he took over in 1997 up there).
It's a new season, and the team hardly needs its few supporters jumping ship right now - being critical, wondering where the offense went, concerned about who is going to play defense in 2014-15, looking for Matt Lorito to regain his spark and stop trying to do so, so much, wondering if hard-luck Marco can ever win a game that he seems to play good enough to lose in, and begging for another line to pick up some offensive slack - all legitimate, and no doubt the very same tension that is pulsing through that locker room as it tries to pick up the pieces from a weekend where one point would have rendered them home instead of Canton-bound.
To me, of all the subplots for this weekend, that's the one that makes me most anxious. I just don't know if the Bears can bounce back, knowing what they've needed in the past month is one or two more points (see also: vs. Princeton, @ Union, vs. Cornell, @ Dartmouth, vs. RPI - all games where a point was possible) and get themselves mentally focused for a battle against another team that has been up and down, to say the least.
I'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Let's face it: this was a disappointing season that had the cloud of who wasn't on the roster still hanging over it, as much as those who did. There was no consistent replacement for Anthony Borelli, Widman and Carrier were gone, and, well, there was a certain forward playing at Northeastern who would have made a difference. And perhaps this team peaked a bit early. My feeling is that this team never regained its collecting confidence after the first five minutes at Yale - they were not consistently the same team. Is that on the coaches and team leadership? Yes. But for whatever reason, it didn't recover as nicely as we would have liked.
A difficult comparison to make. 15-20 years ago, the women's team did not have scholarship programs within its own league, never mind the country, with whom to compete. There was no Clarkson, no Mercyhurst, no RPI (not a power, but a challenge), no Cornell commitment to women's hockey (they were historically awful until Doug Derraugh took over and started bringing in Olympic-caliber athletes), and never mind the bigger state schools. On top of it, women's hockey's exponential growth also coincided with the change in girls playing with girls and not boys, which I can and have contended has changed the pace of the game - and the talent that has emerged from the high school/prep ranks.
However, you make a valid point in that the playing field for the Brown women is similar to the men, and as teams like Harvard and Cornell (and typically Dartmouth, this year notwithstanding) have remained near the top of the nation. I'm not sure whether that lies in admissions, financial aid, recruiting, or, in all likelihood, all three, but the sports are now very similar. My feeling is that once Digit Murphy stopped getting the same type of player in around 2005 or 2006 or so, the program never truly recovered. If the Brown women face #1 Minnesota, that game is over before it starts. If the Brown men face #1 BC, #3 Union, or any of the other 16 ranked teams the Bears faced this year, they have a shot to win. That's the biggest difference, and that speaks to Brendan Whittet's ability to attract exceptional talent.
This season isn't over. If Brown beats SLU, advances to the second round, and even beyond, what will be saying then? No doubt - I'm as disappointed as anyone about the final record and a 9th place finish. But I'll refrain from a full referendum on the coaching staff. I think that is foolhardy at best, though, yes, I too sometimes feel like I'm a Columbia football fan.
The one piece of this that I think is most disappointing is where we are in the path toward overall success. In 2003, five years after taking over as Brown coach, Roger Grillo had the Bears in the ECAC final four, and in 2004, the Bears were ranked nationally in the top ten. The same could be said about Bob Gaudet in his fourth, fifth, and sixth seasons (1993-95 were very, very good years for Brown hockey). By that same estimation, 2014-2017 should be where this team would presumably turn the corner. Similarly, Bob Gaudet, whose blueprint would be likely for Coach Whittet to follow, it was 2003 when his Big Green turned the corner and went 20-13 after basically going .500 in 2000, 2001 and 2002. (They didn't finish first until 2006, his 10th season - and Dartmouth's hockey history was about as spotty as Brown's if you consider what he took over in 1997 up there).
It's a new season, and the team hardly needs its few supporters jumping ship right now - being critical, wondering where the offense went, concerned about who is going to play defense in 2014-15, looking for Matt Lorito to regain his spark and stop trying to do so, so much, wondering if hard-luck Marco can ever win a game that he seems to play good enough to lose in, and begging for another line to pick up some offensive slack - all legitimate, and no doubt the very same tension that is pulsing through that locker room as it tries to pick up the pieces from a weekend where one point would have rendered them home instead of Canton-bound.
To me, of all the subplots for this weekend, that's the one that makes me most anxious. I just don't know if the Bears can bounce back, knowing what they've needed in the past month is one or two more points (see also: vs. Princeton, @ Union, vs. Cornell, @ Dartmouth, vs. RPI - all games where a point was possible) and get themselves mentally focused for a battle against another team that has been up and down, to say the least.
UnionHockeyManiac
Union Hockey fan for life
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
I was at the game yesterday. I thought both teams were pretty sloppy for the first 2 and a half quarters before Union finally turned it on at the end of the 3rd. Other than that, the game was even. Brown always plays us tough so it was nice to break our winless streak at Meehan. I don't think we had won there since 2010.
Is Meehan always that quiet, empty, and cold? I've now been to games at Union, Cornell, Princeton, Yale, RPI, Harvard, and Brown and Meehan was by far the emptiest/quietest. Do most people just not care about Brown hockey? I was sitting in the student section...and I didn't see one student present.
I was at the game yesterday. I thought both teams were pretty sloppy for the first 2 and a half quarters before Union finally turned it on at the end of the 3rd. Other than that, the game was even. Brown always plays us tough so it was nice to break our winless streak at Meehan. I don't think we had won there since 2010.
Is Meehan always that quiet, empty, and cold? I've now been to games at Union, Cornell, Princeton, Yale, RPI, Harvard, and Brown and Meehan was by far the emptiest/quietest. Do most people just not care about Brown hockey? I was sitting in the student section...and I didn't see one student present.
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
Yes and yes. You're a little late to the party on this.
If you have a suggestion as to how to remedy this (short of fielding an elite team, because at this juncture, that doesn't seem feasible), we're all ears.
Yes and yes. You're a little late to the party on this.
If you have a suggestion as to how to remedy this (short of fielding an elite team, because at this juncture, that doesn't seem feasible), we're all ears.
BrunoFan00
Registered User
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
Meehan had great crowds three times this year: BC, Quinnipiac, and Yale. Occasionally, the Cornell and Harvard games draw well, but Brown students go to those games because of the Ivy League connections. Union, RPI, Colgate, Clarkson, St. Lawrence - they don't draw well, regardless of how well the other team is doing, because they don't have the name draw and our fans don't understand college hockey, typically.
The students aren't going to a 4:00 game on a Saturday afternoon. Period. There are too many other draws on campus, particularly on a Saturday. Our students have many choices, and hockey is rarely the top choice, simply put. Unlike soccer and lacrosse, who regularly draw big crowds - the soccer opener has long been an event that attracts a good number of students - hockey, football, and even basketball don't draw huge student sections. What is disappointing, though, is that the fans didn't really come back en masse after drawing well against BC and Yale and getting positive results.
Bottom line - if that game vs. Union pitted #3 Union and a ranked Brown team, our fickle fans may have made more of an appearance, but where we had fallen out of favor and the game were at 4 - we're lucky we had the place 5/8 full.
Meehan had great crowds three times this year: BC, Quinnipiac, and Yale. Occasionally, the Cornell and Harvard games draw well, but Brown students go to those games because of the Ivy League connections. Union, RPI, Colgate, Clarkson, St. Lawrence - they don't draw well, regardless of how well the other team is doing, because they don't have the name draw and our fans don't understand college hockey, typically.
The students aren't going to a 4:00 game on a Saturday afternoon. Period. There are too many other draws on campus, particularly on a Saturday. Our students have many choices, and hockey is rarely the top choice, simply put. Unlike soccer and lacrosse, who regularly draw big crowds - the soccer opener has long been an event that attracts a good number of students - hockey, football, and even basketball don't draw huge student sections. What is disappointing, though, is that the fans didn't really come back en masse after drawing well against BC and Yale and getting positive results.
Bottom line - if that game vs. Union pitted #3 Union and a ranked Brown team, our fickle fans may have made more of an appearance, but where we had fallen out of favor and the game were at 4 - we're lucky we had the place 5/8 full.
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
Cornell was a much better crowd than QU. The weather kept most of what should have been a near-sellout away for QU.
Cornell was a much better crowd than QU. The weather kept most of what should have been a near-sellout away for QU.
QUAlum2004
Well-known member
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder
It kept alot of Quinnipiac fans at home. The alumni event at Spats was likely less than half of what they expected due to the weather.
It kept alot of Quinnipiac fans at home. The alumni event at Spats was likely less than half of what they expected due to the weather.