Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

[norm1909]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

You don't see the hypocrisy of carrying on about violations at another school of a rather ambiguous nature (no physical harm done and the perpetrators are all "good people") when your school is a black-and-white violator of a rule designed to ensure fair competition in D3????

Black & White: "the committee found no indication that anyone in the institutions’ athletics department or administration intended to circumvent NCAA rules.”

 

[The Real Georgia Peach]

To NUProf.......

To NUProf.......

"grumpy old retiree" is redundant...

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Here's the problem.

The Bowdoin hockey team lost their NESCAC Championship because they made the freshmen hockey players carry their equipment in long dresses around campus for the day following their historic NESCAC Championship win........the freshmen were also told to either bleach their hair or shave it bald in preparation for the NCAA tournament.

Yup that would definitely warrant stripping them of their accomplishments, not giving out special awards, and making a complete mock of the players....remember there is no gray area when it comes to hazing right? Is that what happened? No. But by some of your thoughts it could be as simple as "you're not allowed to say the word pizza for a day" would be a form of hazing....that would warrant them being stripped of their title by some of your thoughts.

Now having said that, IF (big IF here) a player was MADE to drink till he puked, put his or someone elses life in danger of being hurt, or what not then absolutely punish them and if the coach knowing knew about it then punish him as well.

And norm...I hope you don't participate in the Cardinal Hockey Charity dinner when they pick on Emery and others....I hope you stand up and walk out in disgust. You've spent countless moments "belittling" Dipinthal, now you’re calling the kettle black. I am all for punishing if the punishment fits the crime, but we have several sides of the story here and we all know how some schools like to blow things out of proportion. It’s like the "hazing" incident where grown men had to receive lap dances by some beautiful women....wow, that is complete torture there

The way I see it, it must not have been too bad if there are no police investigations going on. I would highly doubt the school would be trying to cover up something of that severity. So obviously it was something “legal”. Now if there is a police investigation forgive me, I have not seen or read anything on it. I would just like to read just what the school said happened besides a blank “hazing” accusation.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Here's the problem.

..

And norm...I hope you don't participate in the Cardinal Hockey Charity dinner when they pick on Emery and others....I hope you stand up and walk out in disgust. You've spent countless moments "belittling" Dipinthal, now you’re calling the kettle black..

The way I see it, it must not have been too bad if there are no police investigations going on. I would highly doubt the school would be trying to cover up something of that severity. So obviously it was something “legal”. Now if there is a police investigation forgive me, I have not seen or read anything on it. I would just like to read just what the school said happened besides a blank “hazing” accusation.

As for Emery he - like the military enlistees - or sanctioned boxing - volunteered and knows what to expect. As for Plattsburgh's "AD", I have never stated other than the facts - and included the sources, and I have NEVER not been forthcoming in my statements. The impact of hazing is often based upon the recipients "reference points", events they experienced during their life that created an impression - some good - some bad. A simple example would be a child forced to eat the same item over and over again, they are likely to grow up hating it, even though others might like it. Another example could be calling someone a "Yankee", depending on the person's reference points and/or the situation; it could be quite mentally abusive. To quote an earlier poster - in "Black and White", at a minimum, No action that one does not desire to be done to them or those they care about should be forced on others. Hoof and mouth diseases often affects more than cattle, people need to think before they act, and better yet, be mature enough to not even be amused by others involuntary discomfort.

 

[SB in the 'Seo]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

You don't see the hypocrisy of carrying on about violations at another school of a rather ambiguous nature (no physical harm done and the perpetrators are all "good people") when your school is a black-and-white violator of a rule designed to ensure fair competition in D3????

Correct, I don't see it as hypocrisy because it is not. Hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing another. Honestly, I haven't really "said" anything period I've only really asked questions and haven't really made any direct statements/judgements. The only way I could possibly be a hypocrite is if I had said previous to this thread "If there is ever a hazing incident involving a D3 school I will not post any questions on the thread that correlates to it" obviously I have never said that so I am not being a hypocrite.

The issue appears to be to me that for some reason you think that I shouldn't be involved in this thread because of indiscretions by the school I attended. Simply put, if that is your attitude, then I'd drop it quick. Do you expect Russell to not work for the site or comment in the forum any more because he is a Potsdam fan with their recent violations? What about the Plattsburgh fans like norm and PSUChamps (who have both made some good points in this thread in response to my questions thanks guys) you'd like to see them out too I assume?

The fact is in all of our cases our schools had violations but (as we are with this one) we discussed it hopefully people (the teams, fans, etc.) learned from it and we moved on. The other thing you need to remember that although these teams may be our favorites in no case did we have anything to do with the violations.

I'm going to say it for a third time I've just been asking some reasonable questions to encourage mature/intelligent conversation. If you're not going to be able to apart of a mature discussion then I would suggest you leave. I mean no disrespect - it will probably just be for everyone's benefit (your own included) to be able to carry on this conversation without these interruptions.

 

[SB in the 'Seo]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Both good points Norm and PSUChamps.

My opinion is that the line is crossed in the following circumstances:

1) Someone is forced to do something that causes them to be uncomfortable - We'll use the hair shaving/bleaching example. What if for one of the guys his hair was important to him (religious reasons let's say.) Maybe he didn't have the ability to stand up to the other teammates but it still made for an uncomfortable situation when he gets home and his religious parents freak out on him.

2) There is a threat for not doing the activity - We'll use Remy's "pizza" example. So say one of the freshman went up to one of the seniors and said "I'm not going to be able to do the 'not saying pizza thing' tomorrow. I'm in a cooking class and we're making pizza and I work my part-time job at the pizza shop." If the seniors in response said "Well if you don't do it ... (insert consequences here)..."

So if the hazing did not make a SINGLE player uncomfortable and there were no threats for not doing the activity the I'd say the punishment was too severe. Otherwise, I'm good with it.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Both good points Norm and PSUChamps.

My opinion is that the line is crossed in the following circumstances:

1) Someone is forced to do something that causes them to be uncomfortable - We'll use the hair shaving/bleaching example. What if for one of the guys his hair was important to him (religious reasons let's say.) Maybe he didn't have the ability to stand up to the other teammates but it still made for an uncomfortable situation when he gets home and his religious parents freak out on him.

2) There is a threat for not doing the activity - We'll use Remy's "pizza" example. So say one of the freshman went up to one of the seniors and said "I'm not going to be able to do the 'not saying pizza thing' tomorrow. I'm in a cooking class and we're making pizza and I work my part-time job at the pizza shop." If the seniors in response said "Well if you don't do it ... (insert consequences here)..."

So if the hazing did not make a SINGLE player uncomfortable and there were no threats for not doing the activity the I'd say the punishment was too severe. Otherwise, I'm good with it.

I'm going to say that if there was potential for those things to happen, it is over the line. Period. I am sure that such behavior on the part of a fraternity/sorority would earn them serious penalties. It may have been "in good fun," but if that's okay, then one step farther is okay, and if that's okay, ...

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Both good points Norm and PSUChamps.

My opinion is that the line is crossed in the following circumstances:

1) Someone is forced to do something that causes them to be uncomfortable - We'll use the hair shaving/bleaching example. What if for one of the guys his hair was important to him (religious reasons let's say.) Maybe he didn't have the ability to stand up to the other teammates but it still made for an uncomfortable situation when he gets home and his religious parents freak out on him.

2) There is a threat for not doing the activity - We'll use Remy's "pizza" example. So say one of the freshman went up to one of the seniors and said "I'm not going to be able to do the 'not saying pizza thing' tomorrow. I'm in a cooking class and we're making pizza and I work my part-time job at the pizza shop." If the seniors in response said "Well if you don't do it ... (insert consequences here)..."

So if the hazing did not make a SINGLE player uncomfortable and there were no threats for not doing the activity the I'd say the punishment was too severe. Otherwise, I'm good with it.

Exactly my point. If one of the players stood up and was against it and complained thats one thing. The whole "well if you don't do it...." honestly what could they possibly do? Its the coaches choice who plays. Who cares. Like I said, a lot of people are jumping to conclusions. Even if everyone was willing and had fun doing it, the school could and would deem it hazing. Until I see a report that says some player was held against his will or humiliated against his will, I stand by the punishment was harsh.

Everyone wants to thing the players were probably forced to drink ungodly amounts of alcohol, wear female clothing, and dance across hot coals while singing the school song backwards. I just have a hard time believe if it was that serious, there ISNT a police investigation. Now if a student put up a fight against whatever went on, and was still forced to do it unwillingly WHATEVER it was (even the pizza example) then yes punish.

Like I said, I would just like to see a report from the school on the circumstances that led up to this severe punishment.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

drink ungodly amounts of alcohol, wear female clothing, and dance across hot coals while singing the school song backwards

Sounds like my typical weekend.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

There's always more to a story that eludes public disclosure which might explain the path they chose to walk...either way, the Cup is tied and it's a 3 game series now...move on!

 

[SB in the 'Seo]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

I think the other thing lesson to be learned from this (and we saw it with the Jim Tressel situation) is the cover up is always worse than the actual violation itself.

If the hazing was mild, then I would guess the untruthfulness is what lost them their title. If the hazing was mild and they told the truth about it the punishment is probably less severe. That's my inclination at least.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Mills is an idiot. All you need to know about him is that when the last president of the school retired several years back, he got himself appointed to the search committe to find a replacement. After an "exhaustive nationwide search"....he picked himself to be the new Prez. Wow...nice work Barry.

The article does not mention what actually happened here. I doubt it was 'hazing' in the traditional sense of the word....that school is so PC that I can't imagine a real hazing incident ever happening. In addition, since it supposedly happened after the season ended, IMO there were other punishments that could have been used more effectively.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Actually, I think I have a pretty good handle on the incident.

Yes, you do. We don't. We could take your word for it, but given that your opinions on the topic are at odds with the school's official position, why would we favor your interpretation over theirs?



Powers &8^]

 

[Rayolite]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

1. Is it October yet?
2. Will this thread stand the test of time and be beneficial in the elimination of hazing?
3. It appears to be one sided......(Bruins 8, Canucks 1) but everything does not meet the eye.
4. Had the perps pulled a G.Washington, we wouldn't be having these interesting discourses.
5. Is it October yet?

 

[Saints17]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Sounds like my typical weekend.

You forgot one part..."while holding Caveman's hand"

 

[hawkhockey]

Re: Bowdoin Forfeits NESCAC Championship due to Hazing

Here's the problem.

The Bowdoin hockey team lost their NESCAC Championship because they made the freshmen hockey players carry their equipment in long dresses around campus for the day following their historic NESCAC Championship win........the freshmen were also told to either bleach their hair or shave it bald in preparation for the NCAA tournament.

Yup that would definitely warrant stripping them of their accomplishments, not giving out special awards, and making a complete mock of the players....remember there is no gray area when it comes to hazing right? Is that what happened? No. But by some of your thoughts it could be as simple as "you're not allowed to say the word pizza for a day" would be a form of hazing....that would warrant them being stripped of their title by some of your thoughts.

Now having said that, IF (big IF here) a player was MADE to drink till he puked, put his or someone elses life in danger of being hurt, or what not then absolutely punish them and if the coach knowing knew about it then punish him as well.

And norm...I hope you don't participate in the Cardinal Hockey Charity dinner when they pick on Emery and others....I hope you stand up and walk out in disgust. You've spent countless moments "belittling" Dipinthal, now you’re calling the kettle black. I am all for punishing if the punishment fits the crime, but we have several sides of the story here and we all know how some schools like to blow things out of proportion. It’s like the "hazing" incident where grown men had to receive lap dances by some beautiful women....wow, that is complete torture there

The way I see it, it must not have been too bad if there are no police investigations going on. I would highly doubt the school would be trying to cover up something of that severity. So obviously it was something “legal”. Now if there is a police investigation forgive me, I have not seen or read anything on it. I would just like to read just what the school said happened besides a blank “hazing” accusation.

If that was the total extent of the "hazing", how do you say over react by the administration.
I guess in these situations, as far as I am concerned, hazing is in the eyes of the hazee. If I think I am being hazed then, hazing does exist and should be forcefully and quickly dealt with. If I don't think I am being hazed...
If ANY player complained or expressed discomfort as to these "forced" actions either publicly or privately then Bowdoin did the right thing. by doing something, If no one complained, then the degree of punishmnet does not seem appropriate.