Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

[defkit]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

So on the topic of early departures - thoughts on those that turned out to be good or bad decisions?

Good - some real slam dunks here:
Amonte - a man amongst boys, no reason to stay, great NHL career

McEachern - played on the Olympic team after his junior year, no reason to come back. Solid NHL career.

Tkachuk - unexpectedly made the Olympic team after a solid but not amazing freshman season (playing with Amonte and McEachern for the last 2/3rds of the year helped him get to 40 points). But once he showed he belonged with the Olympic level, not much reason to return, amazing NHL career

Grier - while he had to use his two way skills to make it in the NHL, his reason for leaving was different than most - the refs started calling penalties on all of his big (and usually legal) checks for fear of serious injury to the opposing player. He was getting frustrated.


Bad (not all terrible, but in retrospect, perhps should have come back to BU)

Joe Sacco - left after a great junior year (28 goals), certainly got some looks in the NHL, but was never an offesnive threat at that level. We sure could have used one more gun in that 3OT title game against Northern Michigan.

Mike Pomichter - All American as a Junior, i honestly have no idea where he went, which pretty much makes the case that it was a bad choice. Would have a ring if he had come back for '94-'95.

Chris O'Sullivan - not sure that another year at BU would have helped his cause, but he struggled to stay in the NHL after he skipped his senior year. Given the challenges he and his siblings endured growing up, perhaps the financial aspect was a motivator, and I could never fault him for that.

Those are some older ones - I'll let others chime in with some others including more recents.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

Have not followed closely enough to really comment, but at a glance some that I wonder if they would have been better off staying:

David Warsofsky (dont think he has played in NHL yet?)
Nick Bonino (26 NHL games 0 points in 10-11)
Colby Cohen (has mostly been in AHL I think?)
Chris Bourque (go to class numbnuts)

And at a glance, a couple that come to mine that it seems to have worked out for:

Shattenkirk
Colin Wilson

 

[DaveStPaul]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

Joe Sacco - left after a great junior year (28 goals), certainly got some looks in the NHL, but was never an offesnive threat at that level. We sure could have used one more gun in that 3OT title game against Northern Michigan.

I already have enough depressions brought on by remembering that game, and now you've added to the mix, "And don't forget, Joe Sacco should've been on that team!" Thanks a lot!



Side note: You could have a fun parlor game imagining the potential final score of that game with all those big producers + Sacco. It could've been 10-9! 13-11!

 

[Scarlet]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

So on the topic of early departures - thoughts on those that turned out to be good or bad decisions?

Good - some real slam dunks here:
Amonte - a man amongst boys, no reason to stay, great NHL career

McEachern - played on the Olympic team after his junior year, no reason to come back. Solid NHL career.

Tkachuk - unexpectedly made the Olympic team after a solid but not amazing freshman season (playing with Amonte and McEachern for the last 2/3rds of the year helped him get to 40 points). But once he showed he belonged with the Olympic level, not much reason to return, amazing NHL career

Grier - while he had to use his two way skills to make it in the NHL, his reason for leaving was different than most - the refs started calling penalties on all of his big (and usually legal) checks for fear of serious injury to the opposing player. He was getting frustrated.


Bad (not all terrible, but in retrospect, perhps should have come back to BU)

Joe Sacco - left after a great junior year (28 goals), certainly got some looks in the NHL, but was never an offesnive threat at that level. We sure could have used one more gun in that 3OT title game against Northern Michigan.

Mike Pomichter - All American as a Junior, i honestly have no idea where he went, which pretty much makes the case that it was a bad choice. Would have a ring if he had come back for '94-'95.

Chris O'Sullivan - not sure that another year at BU would have helped his cause, but he struggled to stay in the NHL after he skipped his senior year. Given the challenges he and his siblings endured growing up, perhaps the financial aspect was a motivator, and I could never fault him for that.

Those are some older ones - I'll let others chime in with some others including more recents.

With regards to Pomichter, who got to play on the 94-95 championship team that might not have had he not left? Would that team have won with him? And also, mookie has a tshirt that says Pomichter won a national title in 94. He posted a photo of it here a while back. It's an actual 1994 National Champions tshirt, with the old speed logo on it. He wore it in St. Paul at the regionals. Got a few confused looks. Ha!

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

Nick Bonino (26 NHL games 0 points in 10-11)

Bonino's played in 47 games this year, tallying 17 points, and seems to have become a mainstay on their roster as the season has progressed. I wouldn't put him in the category of those who haven't been as successful after leaving early. A big omission on that list, however, is Strait. Three full seasons since leaving, he's played in only 10 total NHL games, mostly as an injury replacement.

 

[Rover]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

Have not followed closely enough to really comment, but at a glance some that I wonder if they would have been better off staying:

David Warsofsky (dont think he has played in NHL yet?)
Nick Bonino (26 NHL games 0 points in 10-11)
Colby Cohen (has mostly been in AHL I think?)
Chris Bourque (go to class numbnuts)

And at a glance, a couple that come to mine that it seems to have worked out for:

Shattenkirk
Colin Wilson

Bonino I felt made the right move because the team was getting worse instead of better. He came off a championship, had an injury plagued season surrounded by less talent. At that point you can still get some mileage off of the championship season if you leave. Stay and have another down season and that's a problem.

Colby Cohen was a terrible defenseman who struck while the iron was hot. His pro prospects were always limited but why not cash in whe you have the chance? Call it the Marty Reasoner scenario. Reasoner never saw his own end of the ice in 3 years of playing and had his one big year when he was passing the puck to freshman phenom Brian Gionta. When some idiot team offered him money based on that, you go ahead and take it because its going to be all downhill from there.

Ryan Whitney is one who made the right move in leaving. No talent team who's style of play was killing his game.

Bourque could have used some more seasoning and discipline. O'Sullivan bolted too early too IMHO.

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

...Reasoner never saw his own end of the ice in 3 years of playing and had his one big year when he was passing the puck to freshman phenom Brian Gionta. When some idiot team offered him money based on that, you go ahead and take it because its going to be all downhill from there.

While I'm not a huge Reasoner fan, you're seriously understating his college career.

With some guys, the decision to sign is based upon the answer to the question "How will my development benefit more? From another year in college, or a year of playing 80 games at a pro-level?" I think Strait decided to sign thinking his game would benefit from a year in the AHL rather than at BU. A legitimate decision. Much the same as Colin Wilson's decision. One man's opinion, from a strictly performance perspective, CCohen needed another year of college hockey, much like Adam Clendening. The fact that Strait has seen limited time in the NHL isn't necessarily a bad reflection upon his decision.

 

[Boston22]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

With regards to Pomichter, who got to play on the 94-95 championship team that might not have had he not left? Would that team have won with him? And also, mookie has a tshirt that says Pomichter won a national title in 94. He posted a photo of it here a while back. It's an actual 1994 National Champions tshirt, with the old speed logo on it. He wore it in St. Paul at the regionals. Got a few confused looks. Ha!

I don't get it. Did Pomichter have a lot of turnovers in the National Championship game vs. Lake Superior?

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

In this day and age, you can't begrudge drafted players leaving after their junior year. NHL teams want their guys signed no later than that point if it all possible because they run the risk of losing that player's rights if they were to return for their senior season.

Reasoner was a phenomenal collegiate player and thankfully stayed three years. For someone who "never saw his end of the ice at BC", he's certainly transformed his game from what he was thought to be (a top six forward) into approximately a 14 year NHL career primarily as a 3rd/4th line guy. He was drafted 14th overall in 1996, prior to Gionta's arrival. So, he was already thought to be a great prospect and had two very good years at BC with subpar surrounding talent. It's not like he was an undrafted free agent with some "idiot" team noticing him out of nowhere.

Chris Bourque would be a perfect example, but it appears college just wasn't for him. I believe he leads the AHL in scoring.

 

[carltonbarrett]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

If Reasoner only racked up points assisting Gionta, then how did he manage to have a 20-24-44 line in 35 games as a Sophmore before Gionta even showed up? Or for that matter, if he was just getting cheap assists when Gionta was there, how did he score 33 goals in 98? Lets face it, when you put up 73 points as a "true" Junior, you're doing something right.

 

[Scarlet]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

I don't get it. Did Pomichter have a lot of turnovers in the National Championship game vs. Lake Superior?

Not sure what you're asking here. If it was the first part of my post - he left after teh 93-94 season. If he had stayed, someone one the 94-95 team would not have played (or had less playing time). Not sure who that player would have been. They probably would have won but let's say one of the freshmen had to sit. Drury was a freshman, so was Mike Sylvia (I think). Given their contributions to the 94-95 team, take those away and put Pomichter in there, same outcome?

As for the second part - BU lost the national championship game in 1994. mookie found a Boston University 1994 National Champions tshirt on eBay. Pretty awesome.

 

[Rover]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

Reasoner was a phenomenal collegiate player and thankfully stayed three years. For someone who "never saw his end of the ice at BC", he's certainly transformed his game from what he was thought to be (a top six forward) into approximately a 14 year NHL career primarily as a 3rd/4th line guy.

A 14 year NHL career? Are counting AHL stops in that? Reasoner has only played in a majority of his team's games in 9 years. This out of a guy who began his career in 1998. As far as "transforming his game" goes - to what, a bench player? A whopping 32 points represents his career high (achieved last year). But is he a defensive star you say? Minus 24 this year (to go along with 6 points in 58 games). -17, -15, -12....hmmm maybe not there either.

PS - I didn't realize he spent time at Westfield St though. Did he transfer from there to BC? Otherwise, why do you care?

 

[Hokydad]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

A 14 year NHL career? Are counting AHL stops in that? Reasoner has only played in a majority of his team's games in 9 years. This out of a guy who began his career in 1998. As far as "transforming his game" goes - to what, a bench player? A whopping 32 points represents his career high (achieved last year). But is he a defensive star you say? Minus 24 this year (to go along with 6 points in 58 games). -17, -15, -12....hmmm maybe not there either.

PS - I didn't realize he spent time at Westfield St though. Did he transfer from there to BC? Otherwise, why do you care?

whatever he did he made millions doing it. I doubt he would have earned 25% of what he has with a degree from BU.

Makes 1.3 million this year, 1.4 million next year. watching on bench or playing, NHL check either way...

Previous 3 years, 1.3 million, 1.2 million, 1.1 million as well as bonusses.

6.3 million plus bonuses over past 5 years and watching doing it is my hero.

Has made over 10 million so far in his nhl days.

 

[Rogie21]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

While I'm not a huge Reasoner fan, you're seriously understating his college career.

With some guys, the decision to sign is based upon the answer to the question "How will my development benefit more? From another year in college, or a year of playing 80 games at a pro-level?" I think Strait decided to sign thinking his game would benefit from a year in the AHL rather than at BU. A legitimate decision. Much the same as Colin Wilson's decision. One man's opinion, from a strictly performance perspective, CCohen needed another year of college hockey, much like Adam Clendening. The fact that Strait has seen limited time in the NHL isn't necessarily a bad reflection upon his decision.

Strait's initial contract is up at the end of the year and from what I've heard, he'll be re-signed. I believe that when he left early a contributing factor was that he could get a 3-year deal, but if he signed after his senior year, only a 2-year deal would be available . Please correct if this isn't not true.

It's well-established that JP will tell players when he thinks they're ready to leave, taking into account the realities of the CBA. In Pomichter's case, I recall that Parker told him he wasn't ready for the next step.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

Poor rover. Hey give Reasoner credit, the guy had to reinvent himself to stay in the league and become a different player. Not many guys are willing or even capable of doing that. But he did. And he's been cashing the checks ever since.

Not for nothin, but Reasoner was the very first domino to fall after BC hired York in getting BC on the map. Everyone wanted him. Farkas, Mottau, Bellefeuille followed by Gionta/Allen/etc. The rest is history. And right around that time BU took a giant nosedive and has been playing 2nd fiddle ever since. Strange coincidence.

Anyway, is it really safe to say Bourque should have stayed another year knowing he probably never would have been able to after grades from year 1 came out? From a hockey standpoint sure but...

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

whatever he did he made millions doing it. I doubt he would have earned 25% of what he has with a degree from BU.

Makes 1.3 million this year, 1.4 million next year. watching on bench or playing, NHL check either way...

Previous 3 years, 1.3 million, 1.2 million, 1.1 million as well as bonusses.

6.3 million plus bonuses over past 5 years and watching doing it is my hero.

Has made over 10 million so far in his nhl days.

Poor rover. Hey give Reasoner credit, the guy had to reinvent himself to stay in the league and become a different player. Not many guys are willing or even capable of doing that. But he did. And he's been cashing the checks ever since.

Not for nothin, but Reasoner was the very first domino to fall after BC hired York in getting BC on the map. Everyone wanted him. Farkas, Mottau, Bellefeuille followed by Gionta/Allen/etc. The rest is history. And right around that time BU took a giant nosedive and has been playing 2nd fiddle ever since. Strange coincidence.

Anyway, is it really safe to say Bourque should have stayed another year knowing he probably never would have been able to after grades from year 1 came out? From a hockey standpoint sure but...

Poor rover, indeed. He brings Reasoner up without even knowing the facts (or perhaps simply ignoring them) and then of course can't even stay on topic about the guy he brought up. Truly a pathetic individual.

 

[Rover]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

whatever he did he made millions doing it. I doubt he would have earned 25% of what he has with a degree from BU.

Makes 1.3 million this year, 1.4 million next year. watching on bench or playing, NHL check either way...

Previous 3 years, 1.3 million, 1.2 million, 1.1 million as well as bonusses.

6.3 million plus bonuses over past 5 years and watching doing it is my hero.

Has made over 10 million so far in his nhl days.

Hey its a beautiful thing. No problems with the man pulling down a good living. Clearly he made the right choice to jump when he did because despite his career not living up to expectations he's made a pretty penny off of it. Now only if he can avoid the gambling addiction that affects so many a BC grad....

 

[Rover]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

And right around that time BU took a giant nosedive and has been playing 2nd fiddle ever since.

I don't recall playing second fiddle to BC in 2009? Did I miss something?

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

Reasoner hasn't played in the AHL since a whopping two game stint in 2002-2003. Even since he played 34 games in the AHL back in 2000-2001, he STILL played the majority of that season with the St. Louis Blues. As for being a "bench player", here are his games played totals since 2005-2006:

77
72
82
79
80
82
58 (this year)

Nobody said he's been a great NHL player or that he's a defensive star either. Plus, it's not too hard compiling a -24 when you're playing for the New York Islanders. The bottom line is he's played in 764 NHL games over 14 years (that would come out to over 54 games per year) and has earned a comfortable living doing so. He transformed himself into a 3rd/4th line player in order to stick around as long as he has. Good for him.

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012: Part The Sixth

Not for nothin, but Reasoner was the very first domino to fall after BC hired York in getting BC on the map. Everyone wanted him. Farkas, Mottau, Bellefeuille followed by Gionta/Allen/etc. The rest is history. And right around that time BU took a giant nosedive and has been playing 2nd fiddle ever since. Strange coincidence.

Simply an amazing turnaround. BC hasn't looked back since York's first recruiting class. After York's first miserable season with the team he inherited, York has done wonders. By the end of his second season, they weren't really a bad team; they beat BU in the regular season finale. By the end of the third season, they made HE semis.

York used his recruiting connections in upstate NY to engineer the turnaround, didn't he?