Boston College Women's Hockey '25-'26: It's The Hope That Kills You

[ARM]

You don't Desrosiers would have interest in the BC job ? Of course he would and I'm sure BC would play at least 2X what Clarkson pays.

Is BC's program decently funded these days? Maybe it is, but they were one of the few programs with only one paid assistant when just about every other program had two. I'm not going to assume that they are the UW of the East any time soon.

 

[Lindsay]

I give you credit for actually naming a name. He’s obviously one of the best in D1.

I wonder if ADs have a sense of who will apply or what would actually move the needle on wins when they make changes. It’s possible the AD literally just does not care, especially if the current coach isnt asking for more resources.

Providence got nowhere with their coaching change even though in theory it seemed reasonable - USA Hockey scout and maybe a former Clarkson guy if I remember.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

come on @TonyTheTiger20. You don't Desrosiers would have interest in the BC job ? Of course he would and I'm sure BC would play at least 2X what Clarkson pays.

Do I think he would leave his extremely secure longtime head coaching position in a way better conference where he has also won two national championships? No lol are you drunk?

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Also IDK what makes you think BC would pay double what Clarkson would, BC's investment into the women's program is complete shite.

 

[Chris Vogel]

Disappointing collapse in 3rd but thought the moves today sent a message and the team came out with some juice. Team just wasn't playing well infant of Campbell and if you were going to give her a night off this was the best option with the top three in Hockey East coming up. Arnone showed more energy today than she has all year, wonder if being bumped down to third pairing had something to do with it.

Two biggest "down" performances was Taber (until OTW), thought she looked rough especially late. Had a few poor decisions that took opportunities away from Thomas. Second is obiously the PK which has been rough the last two weekends at home.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

I give you credit for actually naming a name.

Yeah fair enough to Reggie

He’s obviously one of the best in D1.

Without a doubt

It’s possible the AD literally just does not care

Reggie is going to take issue with me saying this and say doing one thing doesn't mean they can't do two things, and no, he wouldn't be wrong -- but even if last year was the right time to move on from our longtime largely successful women's hockey head coach (it wasn't), that was probably not happening with a football head coach to hire. This year our women's basketball coach might literally get left behind on a road trip they're doing so badly (again), and men's basketball isn't doing much better (again). Those are way, way, way more high-profile headaches for him to worry about than a non-ACC longtimer coach whose worst season in a decade and a half would still have the team around .500.

I'm not saying I don't get the frustration with us scratching towards what is looking like our worst record since Stack & Schaus were in the Olympics. But "hey our women's hockey team didn't have a good season" is going to be like 25th on his list of concerns this summer.

Providence got nowhere with their coaching change even though in theory it seemed reasonable - USA Hockey scout and maybe a former Clarkson guy if I remember.

BU's hasn't exactly been a jolt either.

Part of the reason I'm so hesitant to just boot out a head coach is that in my years as a student/alum I'd be hard-pressed to name a time where BC fired a coach and the new hire made a materially positive impact. It makes you feel better because "something" is being done, but it's action for action's sake and not addressing any underlying institutional problems.

• I was a freshman in September 2006, our football coach was Tom O'Brien. He was known for being a Pretty Damn Good Coach and ran up 8-win seasons with regularity, getting to and winning bowl games almost every year. He left to go coach at NC State and we replaced him with Jeff Jagodzinski, who took us to the ACC championship game both years he was here. This is where the trouble starts.
• Jags was fired for taking a job interview in the NY Jets (insane for him to be fired for this). He was replaced with Frank Spaziani, who was a disaster and saw us get worse every single season he was here.
• Spaz was fired and replaced by Addazio, the Emperor of Mid who was here for 7 years and had us 7-6 (4-4 in conference) every single season but one, ending, hilariously, with a 44-44 career record. Spaz getting let go was, I guess technically speaking, a "materially positive impact" to go from losing seasons to .500 every year.
• Daz was fired and replaced by a Jeff Hafley, who, like Daz, was here for a decent stretch and had us almost exactly .500 every season except for one. Definitely not a material improvement after Daz getting fired.
• Hafley left to go be an OC in the NFL (was not fired) and we got our splashiest football hire probably ever in Bill O'Brien and well wouldn't-you-God-damn-know-it, we were 7-6 (4-4 in conference) his first year here lol... last year was abysmal but who knows, maybe he'll bounce back.

It's not just football though!

• Men's basketball was competent and competitive forever under Al Skinner. Skinner had one sub-.500 season and was fired. Steve Donahue, Jim Christian, and Earl Grant have strung together a remarkably consistent stretch of 15 straight seasons of being WELL under .500 in conference with only 2 of those seasons above .500 overall. Forget NCAA tournaments, this stretch of hirings and firings has done nothing to get us back to being anything more than an ACC laughingstock.
• Women's basketball had the wonderful Cathy Inglese for ages until she was inexplicably forced out. This one was even worse than firing Skinner. In 18 seasons since, we've had just 3 above .500 overall and 2 above .500 in conference. Sylvia Crawley, Erik Johnson, and JBM have all been part of the same fire-hire-fire-hire train that men's basketball has been attempting and things are going even worse for them.

We're lucky men's hockey had Jerry York and a transition plan in place for when he retired.

So again -- is it impossible to fire a head coach and do better? Of course not! But BC's track record on this has been horrendous, and Coach Crowley has almost an identical coaching history (and way better historical success) to TOB/Jags, Al Skinner, and Cathy Inglese. I saw what pushing out a capable and competent coach did to those programs just because they had a couple years of not meeting their previous standards. It has never, ever ended well for us.

You are free to disagree with my reasoning here, and I know you do, but I type all this out to support my claim that this has nothing to do with me having spoken to Kinger in person a handful of times after a few games over the years. She is not my "best friend" just like you're not here because you're a "jilted parent" -- I'm sure we are both guilty of hyperbole in our assessment of the other -- but she certainly has my respect for what she's done and where she's brought us as a program in her time here. Combine all this with the precipitous decline in women's hockey for Hockey East (and to a lesser extent eastern hockey as a whole) and every bit of evidence I have from following women's hockey and Boston College as an institution over the years is pointing to "Kinger is not the problem" for me.

If BC wants to compete nationally in women's hockey again, they're going to need a serious NIL budget and serious increases in the coaches' budgets for recruiting travel evaluation and other program costs. No idea where that money's going to come from until I win Powerball. They'll also need the rest of the league to improve along with them, because we have seen time and time again that when one team is able to climb to the elite in the conference, not having any true in-conference iron to sharpen iron has left them coming up short in the NCAA tournament.

In the near term I will settle for being good in the league again and we can take it from there.

 

[reggiedunlap9]

Also IDK what makes you think BC would pay double what Clarkson would, BC's investment into the women's program is complete shite.

Sorry but it is a well known fact that Desrosiers has expressed interest in the BC job in the past. Stop listening to your buddy Crowley please.

And yes BC would be in a position to give him a substantial raise. For someone who claims to be Mr BCWIH, You really have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Sorry but it is a well known fact that Desrosiers has expressed interest in the BC job in the past...

And yes BC would be in a position to give him a substantial raise.

I am going to dispute this lol... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Stop listening to your buddy Crowley please.
...
For someone who claims to be Mr BCWIH, You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Someone's extra prickly today! Have a Snickers or something lol

 

[Reddington]

I don't really have an opinion on whether BC can afford to pay double, I will throw in there that BC is not football rich.

As far as coaches - the best move might be to try and get the Northeastern coach to jump ship.

Northeastern always seems to be a bit better than the school reputation and facilities would warrant compared to the other schools in Boston.

Yet, that coach has the team ranked in the top ten again.

 

[reggiedunlap9]

I am going to dispute this lol... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence


Someone's extra prickly today! Have a Snickers or something lol

Fair enough. I apologize. I guess another 4th place finish can do that to me sometimes.

I cant out my "source" on this but I have heard that about the Clarkson coach. And more than once actually

No interest in Flint. Hes all done. I want someone young, aggressive with a proven track record of recruiting all over the world.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

I can't imagine a serious rebuttal to T3's analysis of the overall BC scene. Clarifies the picture considerably for an outside sympathizer who has always liked BC and the Comm. Ave / Mass. Ave rivalry.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Fair enough. I apologize. I guess another 4th place finish can do that to me sometimes.

Lol cheers, all good

I cant out my "source" on this but I have heard that about the Clarkson coach. And more than once actually

That's fair enough. I'm not saying he hasn't, just that it's not exactly common knowledge if he has said it. If he's only said it in private, then even more so.

No interest in Flint. Hes all done. I want someone young, aggressive with a proven track record of recruiting all over the world.

BC is at a small but nonzero disadvantage internationally as the school doesn't give financial aid to foreign students. That's *obviously* not to say they can't find a stud and give them a full scholarship, but it makes the juice less worse the squeeze on an international recruiting trip if it means you aren't able to also look for second level players. When the recruiting budget is as small as it is and it costs 10x as much to go to Europe than to recruit domestically, it's doubly restrictive and I am sympathetic to them dedicating their resources more efficiently.

"We can offer you a roster spot, Miss European (who can go to school at home for nearly free), but you'll have to pay $85,000 a year for it" is a tough pitch. Even a half scholarship is probably getting turned down here.

Not for nothing but Desrosiers is only 5 years younger than Flint. And you would have to say Flint's bread and butter was international recruiting. But having said that I don't really want Flint either. I think he's the right coach for the right job at NU and don't think he's quite a fit here.

 

[Lindsay]

I think when you look at the success of certain programs you can point to certain things, hinges that alter the course. Talking about programs at various levels of success below but:

Schelling and Muller from Switzerland plus Coyne not getting into Harvard was a big deal for NU. Like Poulin following ward to BU was.

Hurst gets a boost anytime a program folds, womp womp.

Wisconsin does a lot right but getting a goalie out of the NoDak demise and hosting U18s was pretty big.

BC (and others) needs a moment or a move to somehow differentiate themselves again. If it’s not the coach, I wonder what else they could do.

 

[ARM]

If it’s not the coach, I wonder what else they could do.

In Minnesota, we'd likely hold a meat raffle. Perhaps the NCAA forbids it, and only souls may be sold.

 

[Chris Vogel]

BC is at a small but nonzero disadvantage internationally as the school doesn't give financial aid to foreign students. That's *obviously* not to say they can't find a stud and give them a full scholarship, but it makes the juice less worse the squeeze on an international recruiting trip if it means you aren't able to also look for second level players. When the recruiting budget is as small as it is and it costs 10x as much to go to Europe than to recruit domestically, it's doubly restrictive and I am sympathetic to them dedicating their resources more efficiently.

Anyone know what our scholarship amounts look like?

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

In Minnesota, we'd likely hold a meat raffle.

...I have questions

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Anyone know what our scholarship amounts look like?

I'm pretty sure we offer the NCAA maximum number of schollies, I could be making this up but I think it's a Hickey East requirement

 

[Chris Vogel]

I was going to guess we were at/close to the max...if it is the no-financial aid to international's doesn't come into play in the roster cap era. If you're fully funded it means no walk-ons/partial scholarships anymore since the maximum is 26 for both roster size and scholarships.

I'm pretty sure we offer the NCAA maximum number of schollies, I could be making this up but I think it's a Hickey East requirement

 

[robertearle]

I'm pretty sure we offer the NCAA maximum number of schollies, I could be making this up but I think it's a Hickey East requirement

A reminder that "the maximum" changed in the wake of the House settlement.

The old maximum for women's hockey was 18 "equivalence" scholarships. where one "scholarship" could be split between two or more players. There is now no more "scholarship limit"; instead, there is a roster limit of 26, with all 26 eligible to receive full scholarships or partials or nothing at all. That change from scholarship limits to roster limits is applicable to all teams and sports, and it really very recent - this is the first school year with that change in effect?. Meaning the competition between teams at the same school is significant, and it is quite unlikely that every team is being given enough money to fully fund all athletes.

 

[Chris Vogel]

A reminder that "the maximum" changed in the wake of the House settlement.

The old maximum for women's hockey was 18 "equivalence" scholarships. where one "scholarship" could be split between two or more players. There is now no more "scholarship limit"; instead, there is a roster limit of 26, with all 26 eligible to receive full scholarships or partials or nothing at all. That change from scholarship limits to roster limits is applicable to all teams and sports, and it really very recent - this is the first school year with that change in effect?. Meaning the competition between teams at the same school is significant, and it is quite unlikely that every team is being given enough money to fully fund all athletes.

The good news for women's hockey at P4 schools is basically they need to spend an additional 22 scholarships to account for increases in football and men's hoops (WBB was already at full 15). Baseball could add another 22 and change (have been told in past BC may spend to the max but don't have confirmation)

For BC, I'd argue women's hockey is in the top two in the pecking order to increase scholarship count (with lacrosse).

Major women's sports and increase in max scholarships:

Hockey - 8
Lacrosse - 26
Softball - 13
Volleyball - 6
Soccer - 14
Field Hockey - 15

Boston College currently under rosters in lacrosse (BC only rosters 32 players of a possible 38) , softball (23 of 25), soccer (24 of 28), and field hockey (21 of 27)

Hockey has 24 of 26 this year. Emily Mara complicates it because of playing two sports, she is counted in both for this.

Essentially Boston College has 49 additional athletes in team women's sports than the previous scholarship caps before House and could be "forced" to fund 22 due to football and basketball and maybe another 22 (or part of that) from baseball. Could be offset by cuts on the mens non-revenue side (and at least part definitely will) instead of increasing scholarships on the women's side but the new fundraising plan is focused on funding scholarships.

TLDR: BC should at a minimum be able to get close to the max of 26 scholarships for women's hockey due to being forced to match scholarship adds in football/mens hoops/baseball.