Big Ten > NCHC

[icehawk]

Well, college hockey isn't owned by the blue bloods anymore, and UMn hockey is suffering just like all the other blue bloods are. And hey, they got a new coach, that often means a period of less than stellar play. Combine that with the Wild having a great season so far, and who knows, maybe the weather being colder than normal might hurt as well?

Didn’t realize the Wild were having a great season. The December swoon started early this year. You forgot one excuse. The Big Ten

 

[omahasioux1]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

The only thing that appears to be disappearing are butts in the seats at Mariucci. The OSU-MN game was on tv in the bar I was at last night, and the emptiness of that arena was shocking.

What is the story behind this? It appears that close to all of the seats are sold.

 

[omahasioux1]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

The only thing that appears to be disappearing are butts in the seats at Mariucci. The OSU-MN game was on tv in the bar I was at last night, and the emptiness of that arena was shocking.

What is the story behind this? It appears that close to all of the seats are sold.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

What is the story behind this? It appears that close to all of the seats are sold.

Corpie accounts, etc. There was some weather issues last night, but that's not the complete reason. A lot of people renew their season tickets just to keep their seats in case MN decides to start winning again, etc.

But yes. it's sad

 

[First Time Long Time]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Oh good... fred's back... And still obsessing.

 

[First Time Long Time]

Obsessing? lol I didn't think about SCSU for at least 7 months. I even forgot the NHL was going. Got home after a relaxing time with family for Thanksgiving, logged on to the internet, and lo and behold, SCSU was #1, so a quick 1 minute check showed they played a very weak schedule and another minute of searching showed someone started up another B1G vs NCHC thread and I figured I might as well post something that made sure you knew it was me, since I'm on an old laptop and hence using an older login/name, etc.. But now that you know it's me, well...

I hope life is treating you well FTLT? At least hockey seems to be going well for your team.

Whatever you say Dubbers...
Forgot about hockey but then checks and decides to post about a "weak schedule"
Not buying it.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

The only thing that appears to be disappearing are butts in the seats at Mariucci. The OSU-MN game was on tv in the bar I was at last night, and the emptiness of that arena was shocking.

I was there Saturday. It's really bad but I guess I just don't see it changing. There will be one series every other year when UND brings a bunch of their fans into our house and some old timer Gopher fans, who are unwilling to move into the new world of college hockey, will come wax nostalgic about how there can still be a good atmosphere at Mariucci. Yeah, only when you bring in UND and all their fans in. Meanwhile the U still tries to schedule those Minnesota teams that everyone was going to miss and the building is still empty, even against those "rivals" everyone was apparently going to miss after the conference switch. I just don't know what the answer is or if there is an answer. And truth be told, I don't go to a ton of home games so I can't be too critical. I can tell you it was one of the most boring hockey games I've been to in quite some time on Saturday afternoon/evening. The combination of a bad Gopher team, not much flow to the game, and an empty arena just made for a snoozer. It's pretty sad when the biggest cheer of the night is a goal being waved off that could have been the game winning goal in OT.

What is the story behind this? It appears that close to all of the seats are sold.

I don't know the answer to this question. I can tell you this about the game I attended on Saturday. I bought single game tickets to this game, not a STH or anything like that. When we got to our section there was an envelope taped to our seats with my name hand written on it. Inside the envelope was a little note hoping I enjoy the game experience, a packet about season tickets/pricing, and a contact at the ticket office. I saw several other envelopes around us that were never removed from the seats, I have to assume that those people just flat out didn't show up. We were in pretty nice seats 9 rows up behind the Gopher bench so it's not like these people just grabbed some random, cheap tickets to get in the building and then moved to the plethora of open seats. I'd think if they showed up they'd sit in these seats.


Sorry to turn this thread into Mariucci lack of attendance talk.

NCHC > B1G.......carry on.

 

[icehawk]

Guess it doesn't matter whether you buy it or not. My job, combined with my girlfriends and my family didn't allow me anytime to think about hockey, and especially not SCSU. Was it Saturday I posted that first post? That was the first time I had logged onto uscho.com since last April and maybe that can actually be checked and verified? What other site would I go to? And when I did check in at Gophersports.com, it was to check on the football and volleyball teams mostly, or get a quick game result for the men's and women's hockey and basketball teams. No time to care about other teams. I had no clue who was in the Top 20 other than the Gophers before Saturday.
I am not going to tell you where I work, but if I did, you'd understand. I have worked close to 120 hours in a week in the past. I've worked 34 days in a row before. It's rare I don't work on Sundays and almost never that I don't work on Saturdays. Cept in the winter when I'm on vacation.

Girlfriends would prefer I not pay any attention to sports, but that will never happen.

Life is to short to work that much. I use to live by the phone as I was a trainman for Burlington Northern. After 2 years I switched and worked on the tracks. Much better work schedule and was rarely called out on weekends. Now I’m retired and enjoying as many sporting events as possible. Just my 2 cents

 

[icehawk]

well icehawk, you are right about that. But my job is a seasonal one. So it's only during the spring planting and fall harvest seasons that I work those kinds of hours. You don't miss a ton before Thanksgiving and that is usually about when I'm done for the season. Then I get half pay throughout the winter and can have as much unpaid vacation as I want during July and August as it gets so slow then.

So with overtime and bonuses and unemployment, I only work about 1300 hours a year, on average depending of course on the weather, but I get paid just over 2000 hours worth of pay. So I actually work alot less over the whole year than everyone else, while making the same amount of money, at least as those at the same pay rate. I think of it as sort of semi-retirement. I pick up side jobs during the summer months from a guy who is ok with me saying no sometimes if I have plans, he likes to go out at night so we never work too late. So I get to enjoy my Minnesota summers at the family's beach house, or out and about throughout Minnesota going to music festivals and such, and I get to enjoy the best time of the year for watching sports, December through April, either at home or wherever I end up vacationing, usually Vegas, but the girlfriends want me to go overseas, too, so we'll see how persuasive they can be?

My only problem is trying to stay in shape over the long winter. Gets tougher the older I get.

That’s funny because since retiring I’ve been helping a buddy of mine harvest and seed the last 3 years. Love doing it and yes it is long hours but we are usually done harvesting in 6 weeks although this year was a harvest from hell with the weather.

 

[First Time Long Time]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Guess this is now Dubbers resident thread...
Works I guess...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Subscribed. How did I miss this gem?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I would say simply that Minnesota sports fans are spoiled.

Twin Cities has been, I think for decades now, the smallest metropolitan area with all the major league sports. Twins and Vikings compete with Gopher football for fans attentions in the fall. Some go to watch the Gopher women's VB team even as that team has consistently ranked among the Top 5 in attendance for almost 2 decades now. In the winter the Wild and T-Wolves compete with Gopher hockey and basketball and even Gopher Wrestling ranks Top 5 in national attendence, along with high school hockey and basketball being big in some parts of the Twin Cities. New Stadiums and facilities and rising salaries for coaches and players mean rising ticket prices, combined with harsh Minnesota weather, and the Twin Cities actually offering alot of alternatives to sporting events. In some places like Duluth and Mankato and St Cloud and Bemidji, the hockey team is sometimes the only or the biggest show in town. It's the only Div 1 sport in all 4 of those places, right? Then there is traffic and parking, which has to be more of a hassle at the U than any of those places.

Combine all of those factors with Gopher Men's hockey not performing like they did in the early years of Lucia's time here, or as well as Brooks or even Woog had them playing at his peak of his career, a big contributing factor to that being the NHL's love of plucking so many Gopher players off of their roster early and Lucia's trying to adjust his recruiting in an effort to try to prevent so many early departures not always working so well. And finally, the switching up of conferences to allow the BTHC to start up ****ing off spoiled Gopher men's hockey fans to simply started choosing not to go to all of the games.

The NHL's plucking the best from the best teams early hasn't just hurt the Gophers, it's hurt all of the bluebloods, but no blueblood program has as many non-blue blood programs in their backyard to compete with for players as the Gophers. And so what have we seen? The likes of SCSU and UMD and Mankato having some of their best seasons ever, at least in the regular season. It's not rocket science.



The solution? Simply to adjust expectations. Accept the fact that fans will choose other ways to spend their money and their time, until a season comes along where the team performs well enough to be ranked among the Top 5 consistently throughout the season, or where the team AT LEAST puts out 110% effort every game and is entertaining to watch. With the improvement of programs like ND, PSU and OSU, Wisc being an old forever rival, and Michigan being somewhat of a rival, a Top 5 ranked Gopher team could fill the Arena for B1G conf games, along with games vs the likes of SCSU, UND, MnSt, BSU & UMD, esp with those programs now being capable of having highly ranked teams as well, along with some big ticket eastern teams like BC and BU. And a great coach will be needed to make that happen. This is Motzko's first season, so IF he is a great coach, it may just take some time before he gets his type of players into the program?

This is actually a pretty good post.

 

[dogs2012]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

This is actually a pretty good post.

Very good post. I've been thinking this for some time now. It shouldn't come as a surprise to Gopher fans that their team hasn't been performing over the last several years...You're seeing an equal rise in UMD, SCSU, and Mankato.

Back even as early as 2008 when I started college, the Gophers got the top recruits in the state every year and it was UMD and SCSU fighting it out for the leftovers. What remained was Bemidji's or Mankato's to have. Fast forward 10 years, and I'd argue UMD is getting the top talent in the state. Followed closely by SCSU (these really go back and forth every year). These players want to play in a quality conference and have been choosing the NCHC over the Big10.

Nobody should be surprised, how else would these other Minnesota programs be competing the way they are?

I also have a theory, I'm probably wrong, but I think a lot of Minnesota's success in the past was a byproduct of spreading out their recruiting efforts. Back years ago, UMD and SCSU had great "grinder" players, the Ryan Lasch's of the world. Maybe biased here, but I think a lot of these players come from outside the metro area. The Gophers needed the Aaron Ness's of the world, the guys who have played pond hockey since they were 3. The Gophers had success because they got the cream of the crop for both, they got the "grinders" from Northern Minnesota AND they got the blue chip players from the metro that have been in develop programs since they were 5. Combined, they were very successful. I think now, you're seeing the Gophers miss those "grinder" players and are relying heavily on the blue chippers. Unfortunately, those blue chippers are now spread out amongst 4 teams and they can't rely on it anymore.

 

[UMD21]

I would say simply that Minnesota sports fans are spoiled.

Twin Cities has been, I think for decades now, the smallest metropolitan area with all the major league sports. Twins and Vikings compete with Gopher football for fans attentions in the fall. Some go to watch the Gopher women's VB team even as that team has consistently ranked among the Top 5 in attendance for almost 2 decades now. In the winter the Wild and T-Wolves compete with Gopher hockey

Denver is smaller and has the 5 major sports as well. They’re more spoiled though since they actually get championships, not to mention the mountains. DU still probably has more butts in the seat than Mariucci on any given weekend **** CC might even too

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Very good post. I've been thinking this for some time now. It shouldn't come as a surprise to Gopher fans that their team hasn't been performing over the last several years...You're seeing an equal rise in UMD, SCSU, and Mankato.

Back even as early as 2008 when I started college, the Gophers got the top recruits in the state every year and it was UMD and SCSU fighting it out for the leftovers. What remained was Bemidji's or Mankato's to have. Fast forward 10 years, and I'd argue UMD is getting the top talent in the state. Followed closely by SCSU (these really go back and forth every year). These players want to play in a quality conference and have been choosing the NCHC over the Big10.

Nobody should be surprised, how else would these other Minnesota programs be competing the way they are?

I also have a theory, I'm probably wrong, but I think a lot of Minnesota's success in the past was a byproduct of spreading out their recruiting efforts. Back years ago, UMD and SCSU had great "grinder" players, the Ryan Lasch's of the world. Maybe biased here, but I think a lot of these players come from outside the metro area. The Gophers needed the Aaron Ness's of the world, the guys who have played pond hockey since they were 3. The Gophers had success because they got the cream of the crop for both, they got the "grinders" from Northern Minnesota AND they got the blue chip players from the metro that have been in develop programs since they were 5. Combined, they were very successful. I think now, you're seeing the Gophers miss those "grinder" players and are relying heavily on the blue chippers. Unfortunately, those blue chippers are now spread out amongst 4 teams and they can't rely on it anymore.

I went off on this in the Minnesota season thread, I'll try to keep it shorter here. I don't necessarily disagree with your points, I just don't think recruiting is that simplistic. It's really easy to say on paper that the Gophers need more grinder types or that they recruit too many entitled kids from Edina. Well guess what, the first time a Gopher coach goes after a grinder type kid and misses out on a blue chip recruit who ends up going to UND or UMD or SCSU (and has success), they're going to get ripped to no end. The other thing with recruiting is how young they are having to go after some of these kids. Some are going to plateau, some are going to regress to the mean, and others will regress below the mean. It happens, there are recruiting misses all the time, they just seem to get magnified in cases like Minnesota with hockey because they should theoretically be getting the cream of the Minnesota recruiting crop. Recruiting isn't an exact science. It comes down to who fits into your program, who you think is a good fit in the lockerroom, and what positions need to be filled. It's tough.

Clearly UMD, SCSU, and Mankato are doing a much better job of recruiting as things sit currently. I don't think anyone could deny that and keep a straight face. Like I said, I just don't think your points are as simplistic as you are trying to make them sound. JMHO.

 

[dogs2012]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I went off on this in the Minnesota season thread, I'll try to keep it shorter here. I don't necessarily disagree with your points, I just don't think recruiting is that simplistic. It's really easy to say on paper that the Gophers need more grinder types or that they recruit too many entitled kids from Edina. Well guess what, the first time a Gopher coach goes after a grinder type kid and misses out on a blue chip recruit who ends up going to UND or UMD or SCSU (and has success), they're going to get ripped to no end. The other thing with recruiting is how young they are having to go after some of these kids. Some are going to plateau, some are going to regress to the mean, and others will regress below the mean. It happens, there are recruiting misses all the time, they just seem to get magnified in cases like Minnesota with hockey because they should theoretically be getting the cream of the Minnesota recruiting crop. Recruiting isn't an exact science. It comes down to who fits into your program, who you think is a good fit in the lockerroom, and what positions need to be filled. It's tough.

Clearly UMD, SCSU, and Mankato are doing a much better job of recruiting as things sit currently. I don't think anyone could deny that and keep a straight face. Like I said, I just don't think your points are as simplistic as you are trying to make them sound. JMHO.

That's fair. Like I said, I'm probably wrong in my assumption but that's what I've seen through my objective lens. The way I see it, there may be only 10 blue chip players in the state (example), and in the past I think the Gophers would get 6-8 of those 10 players. I think that helped them weather early departures or deal with "missed" prospects that don't live up to the hype. Today, I think they probably get closer to 2-3 of those 10 players. Which means if they miss on 1 or 2, you get what you have today. Over a 4 year period, 8-12 solid players. Which, being honest, is where UMD/SCSU/Mankato were for YEARS. That's why we all had to build up talent over 3-4 years and make a single run at the playoffs before going back into re-tooling mode.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

"actually get championships"?? You must be referring to pro sports, right? Which almost no one in here cares about. DU has only 1 more Title in Men's hockey than Minnesota has over the past 20 years, right?

And you can ski here in Minnesota, too. So not sure how you think your having mountains is relevant? And you can ski any day of the week, right?

And you may have all the major league sports there in Denver, but outside of the hockey team, what do you have for college sports competition? In any sport, including hockey? CC has been a non-factor for what, at least 6-7 years now, and doesn't in any way compare to the combination of UMD, SCSU, Mankato and Bemidji, not to mention UND right on our border as well. Do I have to roll out the numbers? I can.

DU has the most NCAA championships in skiing, iirc, and also has an excellent lacrosse team.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

"actually get championships"?? You must be referring to pro sports, right? Which almost no one in here cares about. DU has only 1 more Title in Men's hockey than Minnesota has over the past 20 years, right?

And you can ski here in Minnesota, too. So not sure how you think your having mountains is relevant? And you can ski any day of the week, right?

And you may have all the major league sports there in Denver, but outside of the hockey team, what do you have for college sports competition? In any sport, including hockey? CC has been a non-factor for what, at least 6-7 years now, and doesn't in any way compare to the combination of UMD, SCSU, Mankato and Bemidji, not to mention UND right on our border as well. Do I have to roll out the numbers? I can.

Are you also going to break out the ruler and your wang?

 

[First Time Long Time]

Says the clown with nothing to measure? Hey, not bragging about myself, just the school I'm a fan of. SO... sure, let's break out the rulers and measure UMn's accomplishments vs basically any other college out there. Michigan would measure up pretty favorably overall. They Ivy's would measure up favorably academically of course. But Denver? nope. SCSU? lmmfgdao!!!

And the obsession continues...
But remember folks... He had to check the schedule and standings and had no idea hockey had started again...
Let's also not forget this putz didn't even go to MN.. Too stupid to get in... (Cue another life post no one wants to read)
Dubbers Dubbers Dubbers... No one missed you.

 

[dogs2012]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I agree Gopher Wes, recruiting is not that simplistic, and Lucia got ripped for OVER recruiting when guys left too early, and then he got ripped for UNDER recruiting when he tried to adjust and go after guys he hoped might stick around longer. And you make great points about having to go after younger and younger players.

And I'll keep this short because I've said plenty about this in the past, but the NHL's robbing the Gophers of so many players has to be taken into account. You claim that UMD and SCSU and Mankato are doing a better job of recruiting??? Really? Couldn't it be that the NHL hasn't yet started to go after Mankato players, and only recently has started to go after SCSU's and UMD's? And SCSU has done what to prove their recruiting is better? Won in the regular season? So what? Post season is all that matters. And last year, UMD only beat out the Gophers by what fraction of a percent to get into the tourney? But what, their getting in and then going on a run shows that their recruiting has been so much more successful? Come on. Sports, any sport, every sport, is a game of fractions of inches. An inch is all that is needed for a team to NOT get a first down on 4th down in football, turning the ball over the other team, and sometimes in the last minute, thus ending the game. A basketball bouncing right instead of left off a rim could be the difference between the winning shot going in and it not being the winning shot. Same with hockey, a puck can bounce right instead of left, depending on a fraction of an inch difference and end up in the goal or not in the goal, deciding the outcome of a game that decides the post season destination of the team, just like it did for the Gophers and UMD last season.

Recruiting really can't be pointed to as the reason UMD won a title last year and UMn sat at home and had to watch them do it.


I mean, in part it can, but in sports, sometimes it's just about dumb luck going in one team's favor and not in another's.



5 or 10 years from now, if things keep going like they are going now, it will be teams like UMD or maybe SCSU that are being robbed by the NHL of their best players and are struggling to make the NCAA tourney.

How long did Denver need to recover and get to the Frozen Four after their back to back run??? Every blue blood team has suffered from this NHL factor, and the evidence of this can be seen in the NCAA tourney results the past 10 years or the past 20 even.


Just look at this year's Top 20 rankings. Where are the blue blood programs??? None in the Top 5. Few in the Top 15.


The NHL has leveled the playing field and it's a different game now for ALL blue bloods. Incredible coaching is going to be needed for any blue blood program to do well against whatever non-blue blood program happens to have a roster filled up with experienced Seniors and Juniors that have played together for years and developed the right chemistry to make a run THAT year.

Is this post a bump of a post from 10 years ago or? Everything you said was accurate...in 2008. In 2018? Not so much. I don't know the exact breakdown, but I'd be willing to bet UMD has had just about as many early defectors as the Gophers have over the last handful of years. Using "the NHL steals all our prospects" as an argument is I'm sorry...a joke. No, they don't. Sure, they've pulled some players from your teams, but NHL teams have admitted it is due to the lack of progress they're making in their development from UMTC. But it's not like the Gophers have 10 players pulled from their roster every year that leave early to go pro. They have a couple, just like EVERYBODY else.