Big Ten > NCHC

[First Time Long Time]

K.
Then give the facts...why will we struggle in the 2nd half?
Why is our schedule so weak when its 6th in the country according to your precious KRACH rating.
You've said nothing and honestly...i fully expect that to continue.

*crickets*
Cmon Freddy....you're all about facts....let's have some.
You made the claims...back em up.

 

[Dude Love]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

It doesn't.
I know you want indisputable proof but we as fans are not likely to get that.
We needed to overcome it and we played way too cute.
Also give Robson credit...he stoned us.
Amazing that the better goaltending from both teams came from the backups.
We move on while Dubbs won't. Par for the course.

I don't think we really played "too cute." We played our regular game and the Gophers were able to take away our bread & butter...the cross slot pass.

The Huskies lost on a goal that shouldn't have been disallowed followed by a Gopher goal off one of the worst passes I've ever seen. The sky is not falling because we've lost three times.

 

[First Time Long Time]

I don't think we really played "too cute." We played our regular game and the Gophers were able to take away our bread & butter...the cross slot pass.

The Huskies lost on a goal that shouldn't have been disallowed followed by a Gopher goal off one of the worst passes I've ever seen. The sky is not falling because we've lost three times.

We were too cute in thay we passed on good shots to make an extra pass...especially on the PP.
Can't say it shouldn't have been disallowed because I haven't seen it one way or another.
Yeah Jaycox made a bad pass...he'll learn.
And no the sky is not falling...no one says it has except Dubbs for some secret reason only he knows.

 

[Dude Love]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

We were too cute in thay we passed on good shots to make an extra pass...especially on the PP.
Can't say it shouldn't have been disallowed because I haven't seen it one way or another.
Yeah Jaycox made a bad pass...he'll learn.
And no the sky is not falling...no one says it has except Dubbs for some secret reason only he knows.

1. I call that the "Minnesota Wild Approach."
2. If the referees had more replay angles than were shown on FSN, I would be extremely surprised. We've both been in this business (hockey & TV) long enough to seriously doubt it.
3. Not disputing that. But the Gophers' only goal came off an uncontested shot from the slot. Hrenak was unstoppable otherwise.
4. It's just a kneejerk reaction by lots of SCSU fans to immediately doubt the team when they lose.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

We were too cute in thay we passed on good shots to make an extra pass...especially on the PP.
Can't say it shouldn't have been disallowed because I haven't seen it one way or another.
Yeah Jaycox made a bad pass...he'll learn.
And no the sky is not falling...no one says it has except Dubbs for some secret reason only he knows.

I'm not Dubbs, but its not a secret, its pretty simple, you only managed 3 wins in 8 road games, when only 6 of the 8 games were vs ranked teams. To finish the season, your last 8 road games are against 8 ranked teams. I'd be surprised if SCSU can pull off more than 3 wins in those 8 games, and would predict more like 2 wins.



And DU whooped you in Denver, I believe they will get at least a split in the series in St Cloud. That doesn't leave a lot of wins left for SCSU???

It's simple, SCSU's road schedule gets MUCH tougher from here on out, and even their home schedule gets tougher, too.

 

[First Time Long Time]

I'm not Dubbs, but its not a secret, its pretty simple, you only managed 3 wins in 8 road games, when only 6 of the 8 games were vs ranked teams. To finish the season, your last 8 road games are against 8 ranked teams. I'd be surprised if SCSU can pull off more than 3 wins in those 8 games, and would predict more like 2 wins.



And DU whooped you in Denver, I believe they will get at least a split in the series in St Cloud. That doesn't leave a lot of wins left for SCSU???

It's simple, SCSU's road schedule gets MUCH tougher from here on out, and even their home schedule gets tougher, too.

So your insight is a tough schedule based on a .500 record to this point.
DU outplayed us one night so no we weren't whooped like you say (doubt you watched the games...i did).
So genius...which teams sweep us on the road?
UMD? Hasn't happened yet in the NCHC.
Western? We haven't lost there in NCHC play.
Miami? Hasn't swept us in NCHC play
Only one who has is UND.
Our road record in those buildings since the NCHC started? 14-9-3.

You claim to be big on history...history looks fine to me against those schools.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Why are we talking about St. Cloud State when we could be talking about Gopher players who left 10 years ago, or how much more research funding B1G schools got than NCHC schools? Topics Fred knows slightly more about.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Why are we talking about St. Cloud State when we could be talking about Gopher players who left 10 years ago, or how much more research funding B1G schools got than NCHC schools? Topics Fred knows slightly more about.

Minnesota has gone 14 years without winning a Title, and its not because they limit who they recruit to only Minnesotans which most believe was Woog's reason for not being able to win the Title. Lucia was able to win back to back titles, so that's evidence he knows how to coach. So what has been different the last 14 seasons? Well, I believe its the high # of early departures, and it wasn't just players that left 10 years ago. It's players that left 14 seasons ago, 13 seasons ago, 11 seasons ago, 10 seasons ago, 9 seasons ago, 7 seasons ago, 4 seasons ago & 2 seasons ago as well. It's been a consistent pattern. And they weren't dummies who left school too early only to languish in some minor league for years before making the NHL, most went right into the NHL and contributed to their teams in what would have been their Soph, Jr and/or Sr seasons. I've already posted their NHL point totals those seasons as evidence that the Gophers suffered significant losses of talent, on a consistent basis over the last 14-15 seasons. UND and DU also have had similar droughts after their runs in 97-01 and 04 & 05.

And I'm only bringing this up again, because, well, because you mentioned it, and because FIRST TIME, LONG TIME seems to think how SCSU did 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago and last year will dictate how they do this year. But lineups change, players graduate, players leave early, is there a single player on the SCSU team of 4 years ago on the team right now? Yeah, that's what I thought. WMU isn't usually ranked among the Top Ten, are they?? It doesn't work like that.

And going back to why I felt players leaving early was relevant to the original thread topic, applies here to SCSU. Compared to the SCSU teams of 4 years ago and 3 years ago, and 2 years ago, what is different about this season's SCSU squad? This is a squad that is missing some players who left school early, right? Lost a sophomore 2 seasons ago and a Frosh after last season, right? How will the loss of players affect SCSU's performance vs opponents it did well against in the past? My guess is WMU didn't lose an equivalent # of players leaving so early to the NHL, did they? And I keep referencing WMU because that is SCSU's next opponent and the only opponent SCSU plays more than 2 games against.

Not sure, but SCSU couldn't even muster a win vs Princeton in that road series, which is something that THIS YEAR'S squad did, which is far more relevant than what SCSU did vs WMU 3 years ago. Wouldn't you say???



I don't bring up past seasons results to show how its relevant to how well the Gophers will do this season. I bring up the past to show other things, like how losing players early to the NHL negatively affected PAST results. To show how changes in conference rosters and structures has not stopped B1G programs from continuing to figure out ways to bounce back and continue to be successful. After a couple rough seasons to start, the B1G is doing quite well this season. Adding Notre Dame helped, of course, but the B1G would still have been significantly improved even without the addition of Notre Dame.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Rumor has it that:

1. You can't change history.
2. They'll play games in the future and you have no idea what the outcome will be no matter how hard you try.

 

[First Time Long Time]

Minnesota has gone 14 years without winning a Title, and its not because they limit who they recruit to only Minnesotans which most believe was Woog's reason for not being able to win the Title. Lucia was able to win back to back titles, so that's evidence he knows how to coach. So what has been different the last 14 seasons? Well, I believe its the high # of early departures, and it wasn't just players that left 10 years ago. It's players that left 14 seasons ago, 13 seasons ago, 11 seasons ago, 10 seasons ago, 9 seasons ago, 7 seasons ago, 4 seasons ago & 2 seasons ago as well. It's been a consistent pattern. And they weren't dummies who left school too early only to languish in some minor league for years before making the NHL, most went right into the NHL and contributed to their teams in what would have been their Soph, Jr and/or Sr seasons. I've already posted their NHL point totals those seasons as evidence that the Gophers suffered significant losses of talent, on a consistent basis over the last 14-15 seasons. UND and DU also have had similar droughts after their runs in 97-01 and 04 & 05.

And I'm only bringing this up again, because, well, because you mentioned it, and because FIRST TIME, LONG TIME seems to think how SCSU did 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago and last year will dictate how they do this year. But lineups change, players graduate, players leave early, is there a single player on the SCSU team of 4 years ago on the team right now? Yeah, that's what I thought. WMU isn't usually ranked among the Top Ten, are they?? It doesn't work like that.

And going back to why I felt players leaving early was relevant to the original thread topic, applies here to SCSU. Compared to the SCSU teams of 4 years ago and 3 years ago, and 2 years ago, what is different about this season's SCSU squad? This is a squad that is missing some players who left school early, right? Lost a sophomore 2 seasons ago and a Frosh after last season, right? How will the loss of players affect SCSU's performance vs opponents it did well against in the past? My guess is WMU didn't lose an equivalent # of players leaving so early to the NHL, did they? And I keep referencing WMU because that is SCSU's next opponent and the only opponent SCSU plays more than 2 games against.

Not sure, but SCSU couldn't even muster a win vs Princeton in that road series, which is something that THIS YEAR'S squad did, which is far more relevant than what SCSU did vs WMU 3 years ago. Wouldn't you say???



I don't bring up past seasons results to show how its relevant to how well the Gophers will do this season. I bring up the past to show other things, like how losing players early to the NHL negatively affected PAST results. To show how changes in conference rosters and structures has not stopped B1G programs from continuing to figure out ways to bounce back and continue to be successful. After a couple rough seasons to start, the B1G is doing quite well this season. Adding Notre Dame helped, of course, but the B1G would still have been significantly improved even without the addition of Notre Dame.

Basically all i get out this word vomit is you can use history but no one else can.

I never once said that past results dictate future ones.
What I said was we have done well on the road against those schools since the conference formed...regardless of our strength or theirs.
So while the schedule "gets harder"...we aren't worried about it.

But with you it's what i expect...give facts...have you call them meaningless.
I'm sure if we drop a game this weekend you'll be throwing yourself a party and spooging your pants...so enjoy that if it happens.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

And going back to why I felt players leaving early was relevant to the original thread topic, applies here to SCSU. Compared to the SCSU teams of 4 years ago and 3 years ago, and 2 years ago, what is different about this season's SCSU squad? This is a squad that is missing some players who left school early, right? Lost a sophomore 2 seasons ago and a Frosh after last season, right? How will the loss of players affect SCSU's performance vs opponents it did well against in the past? My guess is WMU didn't lose an equivalent # of players leaving so early to the NHL, did they? And I keep referencing WMU because that is SCSU's next opponent and the only opponent SCSU plays more than 2 games against.

SCSU fans aren't going to use players that left in 2016 as an excuse if we get swept by WMU this weekend. WMU didn't lose an equivalent # of players? I don't know. But I would classify the recruits that SCSU gets as being a slightly higher caliber than WMU. That is what comes with getting better players: they might leave early. Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan seemed to be able to overcome it ten years ago. Now they don't seem to be able to.

Not sure, but SCSU couldn't even muster a win vs Princeton in that road series, which is something that THIS YEAR'S squad did, which is far more relevant than what SCSU did vs WMU 3 years ago. Wouldn't you say???

Is a "split" against Princeton, after a month layoff and missing our coach more predictive than our previous record against WMU? I don't know. You seem to love bringing it up, like that is some devastating result and proof that SCSU is overrated. We will emphasize the two ties against Princeton and ignore the fact that St. Cloud has the #3 offense in the country and the #5 defense. Ignore the fact that St. Cloud is 10-0-1 at home this season. Ignore the fact that St. Cloud is #1 in the Pairwise. Just focus on those ties against Princeton. I will let the results speak for themselves.

I don't bring up past seasons results to show how its relevant to how well the Gophers will do this season. I bring up the past to show other things, like how losing players early to the NHL negatively affected PAST results. To show how changes in conference rosters and structures has not stopped B1G programs from continuing to figure out ways to bounce back and continue to be successful. After a couple rough seasons to start, the B1G is doing quite well this season. Adding Notre Dame helped, of course, but the B1G would still have been significantly improved even without the addition of Notre Dame.

The Gophers and Badgers haven't bounced back. You don't get that? The Gophers were not happy to be the 10th ranked team in the country 10 years ago. Neither were the Badgers. Neither was Michigan.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

So your insight is a tough schedule based on a .500 record to this point.
DU outplayed us one night so no we weren't whooped like you say (doubt you watched the games...i did).
So genius...which teams sweep us on the road?
UMD? Hasn't happened yet in the NCHC.
Western? We haven't lost there in NCHC play.
Miami? Hasn't swept us in NCHC play
Only one who has is UND.
Our road record in those buildings since the NCHC started? 14-9-3.

You claim to be big on history...history looks fine to me against those schools.

You can cite how well SCSU has done vs other NCHC teams, but that isn't very relevant. Or didn't any SCSU players graduate after last year? Didn't SCSU lose at least 1, if not 2 players to the NHL after last season? One was only a Frosh. What IS relevant is how SCSU has done THIS year.

The 3 road games SCSU won so far this season, they won convincingly. I'll give them that. But claiming DU didn't whoop SCSU is kind of pathetic. Allowing 9 goals to be scored vs only scoring 3? 5-1 and 4-2? Looks like getting whooped to me? And not being able to get a win in road games vs Princeton? Come on, that's not the kind of weekend that makes me think SCSU can go on the road and survive the likes of WMU and UMD and UND. My being able to predict that SCSU would probably win the home game with Minny but might lose the road game, then that happening??


It's possible that I am putting too much weight on the home vs road thing. I could be wrong, SCSU could win more than 3 of the remaining 8 road games. It's possible teams like UMD and WMU are overrated? But at the same time, that could mean my predicting SCSU will win 6 or 7 of their remaining home games just because they went 10-0-1 at home so far, could be wrong as well.

As far as who specifically will sweep SCSU? That is not my expertise, I deal in pattern recognition. I could guess that UND is the most likely to, then WMU and then UMD, basing that mostly on where those teams are ranked. If the college hockey season was four times as long, then I could recognize patterns that were opponent specific, but that is not the case. I only have 8 road games to analyze, none vs any of the remaining teams they have yet to play and 11 home games. It's not a lot of information to go on, so I could end up being wrong, as recognizing season long patterns is like betting on a pair of Aces to beat a 9-8 off suit, the majority of the time the pair of Queens is going to win, but not always. In any one game, all kinds of unpredictable things can happen, but over an entire season, the pair of Aces will win more hands than the 9-8 off suit, and this can be predicted with a great deal of accuracy, same kind of predictions can be made when it comes to sports. But if I am wrong, which would be fine with me as I've said before, I sort of cheer for all Minnesota based teams, well that happens sometimes. Anyone winning a poker hand with just one card left to come on the river, with the opponent left with only 1 card in the entire deck that will help them, and they get it, will know what I am talking about. But using the same pattern recognition techniques in the past, I've been able to make far more money than I've lost predicting sports outcomes. Right here at USCHO I predicted 4 teams making it into the Frozen Four back in 2005. And I've used the same pattern recognition techniques to win far more money than I've lost playing poker.


SCSU is very likely to win at least 2, but probably all 3 of their next 3 games, based solely on their going 10-0-1 in their first 11 home games, but who knows, anything can happen.


And btw, I'm not a genius, remember, my parents dropped me on my head, remember?

 

[First Time Long Time]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

So you didn't watch the DU games....if you did...you'd know the 4-2 game was with an ENG...so like i said...we were outplayed one night.
Ok..we lost Cholowski on defense...partially because he was the #5 here and wanted more playing time...as he would likely still be the #5 here.
Considering our scoring D is 3rd in the country...not much of a loss...even if he was a 1st round pick.
You keep harping on Princeton...again you likely didn't watch either game.
Their goalie stood on his **** head both nights and considering it's an east coast trip after not playing for almost a month and being without our #1 center...head coach and a very capable back up goalie...two ties are not near as bad as you make them out to be.
Maybe you should actually watch more games and not just think poker patterns mean anything to hockey.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Basically all i get out this word vomit is you can use history but no one else can.

I never once said that past results dictate future ones.
What I said was we have done well on the road against those schools since the conference formed...regardless of our strength or theirs.
So while the schedule "gets harder"...we aren't worried about it.

But with you it's what i expect...give facts...have you call them meaningless.
I'm sure if we drop a game this weekend you'll be throwing yourself a party and spooging your pants...so enjoy that if it happens.

Hey, you don't want to turn your brain on, that's fine. If you did you might understand that two separate conversations/debates are going on in this thread, at the same time. The one being whether or not the B1G is better than the NCHC or not, or ever will be, and the 2nd one is whether or not SCSU is overrated and how relevant their getting to #1 in the PWR at this point in the season is to how well they may do come tourney time.

So each separate discussion/debate requires different criteria. Historical facts and stats that may be relevant when discussing which conference is better or will be better in the future, won't be relevant when discussing how well SCSU will do on the road the rest of the season. So it's not my being able to use history and no one else can, its YOU not understanding the difference between the two separate discussions.

 

[First Time Long Time]

Hey, you don't want to turn your brain on, that's fine. If you did you might understand that two separate conversations/debates are going on in this thread, at the same time. The one being whether or not the B1G is better than the NCHC or not, or ever will be, and the 2nd one is whether or not SCSU is overrated and how relevant their getting to #1 in the PWR at this point in the season is to how well they may do come tourney time.

So each separate discussion/debate requires different criteria. Historical facts and stats that may be relevant when discussing which conference is better or will be better in the future, won't be relevant when discussing how well SCSU will do on the road the rest of the season. So it's not my being able to use history and no one else can, its YOU not understanding the difference between the two separate discussions.

Ok then moron.
Did you or did you not use..multiple times...SCSU's tourney history as some sort of proof that this team will choke in the tourney?
So again...history is relevant to you when you use it to push your agenda but not when its used against you.
Those FACTS are indisputable.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

SCSU fans aren't going to use players that left in 2016 as an excuse if we get swept by WMU this weekend. WMU didn't lose an equivalent # of players? I don't know. But I would classify the recruits that SCSU gets as being a slightly higher caliber than WMU. That is what comes with getting better players: they might leave early. Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan seemed to be able to overcome it ten years ago. Now they don't seem to be able to.


Is a "split" against Princeton, after a month layoff and missing our coach more predictive than our previous record against WMU? I don't know. You seem to love bringing it up, like that is some devastating result and proof that SCSU is overrated. We will emphasize the two ties against Princeton and ignore the fact that St. Cloud has the #3 offense in the country and the #5 defense. Ignore the fact that St. Cloud is 10-0-1 at home this season. Ignore the fact that St. Cloud is #1 in the Pairwise. Just focus on those ties against Princeton. I will let the results speak for themselves.



The Gophers and Badgers haven't bounced back. You don't get that? The Gophers were not happy to be the 10th ranked team in the country 10 years ago. Neither were the Badgers. Neither was Michigan.

I didn't say the Gophers and Badgers specifically. I said the B1G. And what? Do you think the Gophers were ranked among the Top 4 every single year of their existence before the B1G was created?? lol

They've gone through slumps before, of more than just a year where a ranking of 10th in the country would have been great.

And I haven't ignored the fact that SCSU is 10-0-1 at home, I'm mentioned that more than once in my posts. Oh, but of course you probably don't read them all the way through.

And you are willing to make several excuses for not being able to get more than a tie in 2 games against a very low rated Princeton team, but losing players early to the NHL can't be used as an excuse or explanation for a normally dominant team struggling more than in the past when they weren't losing lots of players early?

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Ok then moron.
Did you or did you not use..multiple times...SCSU's tourney history as some sort of proof that this team will choke in the tourney?
So again...history is relevant to you when you use it to push your agenda but not when its used against you.
Those FACTS are indisputable.

I didn't use SCSU's past as "proof" of anything, evidence maybe? And evidence of what? Simply that, SO FAR, they haven't proven that they can go deep into the NCAA tourney, and me personally, I will wait until SCSU proves that they can do something other than what the evidence suggests before I become a believer. I understand why SCSU fans, being homers, want to believe and so allow their perceptions to be skewed in favor of SCSU. I've done that before in regards to the Gophers, not necessarily in hockey though, but its only natural. I've also been on the other side of the debate. I've been the one that was considered an idiot for believing in a certain team, seeing that they had not yet done anything in the past to prove that they could be successful. So like I've said, I might end up being wrong about SCSU. This year truly could be different than the rest of their past. And as a Minnesotan who sort of cheers for all Minnesota teams, I'd be ok with being wrong about SCSU.

 

[First Time Long Time]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Ever think maybe the Princeton games are statistical outliers and not proof of anything?

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Maybe you should actually watch more games and not just think poker patterns mean anything to hockey.

It's not "poker patterns", its pattern recognition that I apply to BOTH poker and to sport, including hockey. And it does mean something to hockey. Not as much necessarily to single games, but to seasons as a whole, it does. What I mean by that is that its more accurate when predicting season long patterns than it is single games, and in that regard its similar to poker. There are single hands that go very much against the overall pattern, just as there are single games that go very much against the overall pattern. Maybe the weekend out on the East Coast, with a month long lay off prior to the games, without your coach and your top Center and a reliable back up goalie or whatever it was you said, maybe it was all of those factors that led to SCSU not winning either of those games, or maybe it was PU's goalie having 2 of his best games? And maybe if I watched 30-40 games a weekend, every single weekend, I could know some of these specific things about every single relevant team each season. But I'm not so into college hockey that I would want to watch 30-40 games a weekend. Do you watch 30-40 games a weekend? lol I doubt it. Who does???

I enjoy sports, all of them, men's and women's college basketball and wrestling, women's hockey, gymnastics and even Swimming and Diving, along with Men's Hockey when it comes to winter sports. And sports is not even close to my only interest in life, so with so many diverse interests, I hardly have time to watch 30-40 games a weekend for any one sport.

And I've found that watching games actually negatively affects how well I can analyze the long term patterns and make good predictions, SO, I solve this whole dilemma in a very satisfying way, to me. I limit the games I watch to games the Gopher's play, and so I don't allow myself to bet on the Gophers, and as the season progresses, I stop betting on their conference opponents as well.

So I watch plenty of sports, but not too much, and do incredibly well at betting on sports. Sorry if that makes you think I am not qualified to have an opinion about your college hockey team. But I don't let homer fans instruct me on how to think about their home teams. I learn from them, but only what I need to know.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Ever think maybe the Princeton games are statistical outliers and not proof of anything?

I have considered that.