Big Ten Hockey Conference

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You are rationalizing the past and this situation with Notre Dame hockey is in the future.

I'm not "rationalizing" it as much as I am "explaining why it didn't happen last time Notre Dame went down that path".

There is no reason to suspect that anything has changed with regard to the Big Ten and Notre Dame, so why presume otherwise?

Beyond that, look at how the expansion issue played out for the Big Ten. Despite the fact that the purpose of the entire excercise was to get a championship game for football, did you ever ONCE hear anyone say anything about associate members for that?

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Beyond that, look at how the expansion issue played out for the Big Ten. Despite the fact that the purpose of the entire excercise was to get a championship game for football, did you ever ONCE hear anyone say anything about associate members for that?

This is incorrect. The Big Ten expanded (and is still looking, by the way) because it wants to grow the brand and their media empire. The existence of a championship game is a drop in the bucket. Hell, Delany even suggested a year ago or so that they might not even have one for football.

Expansion has always been about finding institutions that are good matches for the rest of the Big Ten, ones that help advance the academic missions of the Universities, ones that add market share to the Big Ten Network (either through media market size or through fanbase size, preferably both), and ones that enhance the competitive success of the conference.

More fundamentally, it's also a realization that the current alignment of conferences isn't all that stable, and the Big Ten is positioning itself for success in the long run.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You can stop overplaying Barry's role here, EoDS.

Barry is merely the voice of reason here. We're talking about Big Ten hockey because Big Ten hockey makes sense. With the addition of Penn State (which, unless Barry is on the Board of Royal Dutch Shell, has nothing to do with Mr. Alvarez), it's a question that's moved from the theoretical to the practical.

He's treating it like a foregone conclusion because it is a foregone conclusion.

I agree with everything you said here.

What I am arguing is that, once again, Barry is showing a noticable lack of tact in how he handles hockey issues in the media. He could've looked to the press statement issued by the Big Ten (however phony it may have been) to see how to respectfully handle these sorts of things. Instead, he chooses to blab his fat mouth to Baggott and what does that accomplish? Give a few more beat reporters at smaller schools the willies? Maybe even scare some of the people at those schools that actually matter?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

This is incorrect. The Big Ten expanded (and is still looking, by the way) because it wants to grow the brand and their media empire. The existence of a championship game is a drop in the bucket. Hell, Delany even suggested a year ago or so that they might not even have one for football.

Expansion has always been about finding institutions that are good matches for the rest of the Big Ten, ones that help advance the academic missions of the Universities, ones that add market share to the Big Ten Network (either through media market size or through fanbase size, preferably both), and ones that enhance the competitive success of the conference.

Let's put it this way, blockski: the Big Ten wasn't (and isn't) looking to expand their media empire by adding Nebraska's women's volleyball or tennis teams. Even all of the media-driven implications of what the Big Ten was (and is) trying to do with expansion ultimately just leads back to football. And, to a much lesser extent, basketball.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I agree with everything you said here.

What I am arguing is that, once again, Barry is showing a noticable lack of tact in how he handles hockey issues in the media. He could've looked to the press statement issued by the Big Ten (however phony it may have been) to see how to respectfully handle these sorts of things. Instead, he chooses to blab his fat mouth to Baggott and what does that accomplish? Give a few more beat reporters at smaller schools the willies? Maybe even scare some of the people at those schools that actually matter?

You've got an axe to grind with Barry about all sorts of things, and you think he said that without tact.

Andy Baggot criticizes Barry all the time, and argues he spoke with tact.

Two sides to the story, my friend.

Barry's never going to be a diplomat, that's for sure. Still, he didn't say anything new. He acknowledged the elephant in the room. If the ADs at those small schools aren't aware of said elephant by now, then they probably shouldn't be ADs.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Let's put it this way, blockski: the Big Ten wasn't (and isn't) looking to expand their media empire by adding Nebraska's women's volleyball or tennis teams. Even all of the media-driven implications of what the Big Ten was (and is) trying to do with expansion ultimately just leads back to football. And, to a much lesser extent, basketball.

All true - but they're not doing it to add a championship game.

Hell, if anything, the Big Ten's lack of a championship game in recent years has been a benefit to the conference getting multiple teams into the BCS almost every year.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You really know nothing about the Big Ten do you? The BigTen cares about things much larger than College Hockey. They have never had associate members, every university in the BigTen is part of CIC. Academics plays a large role in things. How hard is it to wrap your head around these ideas? The BigTen will never do anything to help ND hockey even if you think its better for the 6 schools in the BigTen that play hockey...at least not without getting the diamond that is the ND football team.

Can I assume since you went to Tech that you are an engineer?

I'm in business, so lets just say you and I don't see the world the same way.

The BTHC is all about M-O-N-E-Y. Adding Notre Dame hockey will help the bottom line.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You've got an axe to grind with Barry about all sorts of things

This is true.

I like Coach Alvarez just fine. Barry the AD, on the other hand, I like about as much as my cat loves swimming pools. (Cats and swimming pools, coincidentally, also work as a great metaphor to describe Alvarez's subtlety and grace)

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

All true - but they're not doing it to add a championship game.

Hell, if anything, the Big Ten's lack of a championship game in recent years has been a benefit to the conference getting multiple teams into the BCS almost every year.

Also true. But it's worth noting: they are adding a championship game.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You are rationalizing the past and this situation with Notre Dame hockey is in the future.

You are rationalizing using random posts on a random message board that have no basis in fact. No offense, but you dont have a leg to stand on.

You must also think the refs are out to screw the Sioux then right?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Can I assume since you went to Tech that you are an engineer?

I'm in business, so lets just say you and I don't see the world the same way.

The BTHC is all about M-O-N-E-Y. Adding Notre Dame hockey will help the bottom line.

Money is a huge factor, but I don't see the BigTen ever helping Notre Dame make money at hockey without Notre Dame give up their football independence. And in all honesty, I don't see how Notre Dame really helps the BigTen make more money in hockey? Hockey until recently hasn't been good at Notre Dame and it still isn't a huge deal. I don't see how adding them to split the pie 7 ways is a good thing anyone. The only way what you're talking about happens, is if the big ten schools do something similar to what the MAAC schools and Ivy schools. Form a conference that involves all of the BigTen teams and some of the other big programs but not under the BigTen umbrella. I wouldn't argue with you if you claimed that there might be a 10 team conference consisting of:
Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio State, Penn State, Notre Dame, Miami, North Dakota, Denver/UNO under some name other than the BigTen.
That could happen, but that is not the same thing as saying there will be a BigTen Conference involving the big ten schools and Notre Dame. I would put money on that never happening unless ND becomes a full member.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

He is assuming that fans in Big Ten schools will care more about Notre Dame coming to town for hockey and as such either attend or watch the games on BTN so the Big Ten will want them. He is wrong, he has proven all through this thread he has no clue he just is overreacting because he believes his team will become irrelevant as soon the BTHC happens.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

He is assuming that fans in Big Ten schools will care more about Notre Dame coming to town for hockey and as such either attend or watch the games on BTN so the Big Ten will want them. He is wrong, he has proven all through this thread he has no clue he just is overreacting because he believes his team will become irrelevant as soon the BTHC happens.

If his team and UND keep winning games and getting to the Frozen Four, it will be very hard to become irrelevant. Am I right?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

He is wrong, he has proven all through this thread he has no clue he just is overreacting because he believes his team will become irrelevant as soon the BTHC happens.

If he's feeling that way, just imagine the way that DU's casual fans would feel about it.

In that case, maybe he's on to something and DU is just plain screwed. Hard to remain a national powerhouse when all of your fans lose interest in an "irrelevant" team.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

If his team and UND keep winning games and getting to the Frozen Four, it will be very hard to become irrelevant. Am I right?

You would think so...but apparently the second the BTHC forms they will disband.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

If his team and UND keep winning games and getting to the Frozen Four, it will be very hard to become irrelevant. Am I right?

Its possible that DU and North Dakota will be stronger on the ice if this comes to pass. Kind of like Gonzaga in hoops or Boise State in football.

But there is no doubt that this will negatively impact DU financially. More than likely cuts will have to be made.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Its entirely possible that DU and North Dakota will be stronger on the ice if this comes to pass. Kind of like Gonzaga in hoops or Boise State in football.

But there is no doubt that this will negatively impact DU financially.

So it is the Big Ten teams fault that you have lukewarm fans?

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So it is the Big Ten teams fault that you have lukewarm fans?

Not at all. Just that its better for DU if Minnesota and Wisconsin continue in the WCHA.

 

[Dirty]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

DU fans are largely complete morons who don't show up to games unless the Pioneers are playing Minnesota, Wisconsin, Colorado College, and recently, North Dakota. If they had real fans who understood hockey, it wouldn't be a problem, but that isn't the case so DU would be playing in front of a half empty arena for a majority of their games.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

So it is the Big Ten teams fault that you have lukewarm fans?

While this may be true if you don't see the peril that he's worried about you have blinders on.

Fans are fickle no matter the team. There's only one Chicago Cubs.

Hell, Gopher Hockey is supposed to be Pride On Ice and the fanbase was pretty lackluster last season. Continue to lose and it'll get worse.