Big Ten Conference Tournament

[Husky1]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

I was talking about FANS physically in the arena not just tickets sold.
The real question (and one that the WCHA doesn't even know the answer to) is how many of those packages go to MN fans and how many go to everyone else. I suspect that it is about 60% to MN (and UW) fans with the other ~40% going to primarily UND and SCSU fans (but all the other schools have SOME fans who get packages and go annually). That gives a base of about 8k in packages that will be sold.

What percentage of the 60% you note above are you attributing to UW fans? I've been to every F5 at the X and Wisconsin never travels well; certainly a distant 4th behind UM, UND and even SCSU (if not other schools). In fact I would put them in Denver/CC territory when the Badgers aren't there. That's always surprised me given the passion of that fanbase as it relates to other sports.

I still think the X makes sense for the Big 10, and as a fan of an NCHC school I'd be fine with the Target Center, at least location-wise. Wouldn't mind a rotation with the X, though.

 

[Caustic Undertow]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

Chicago

Chicago would totally solve this debate by drawing far fewer fans than either the JLA or the X. Neutrality is ensured.

Real answer: There's no way. Three NHL home rinks seriously support college hockey: The X, the JLA, and TD Boston Fleetnorth BankGarden. Two of those are in the Big Ten footprint, and both have local teams. Ticket sales may not be the only criteria, but they are unquestionably a criteria and the major reason why any discussion of a non-home site championship cannot be held without the X involved.

 

[Almington]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

I don't think there is a percentage, unless you are making deals. You don't have to go to GopherSports.com, Sioux Website, Saint Cloud's webite, or the Scoonie website. It's all sold through Ticketmaster. Hell, they annonced tickets for next year's tournament in the arena would go on sale after as soon as Kent Patterson decided to make some saves so the Sioux v Gophers game would get over.

The tickets are not allocated by school but it is clear that a large fraction of the tickets are purchased by Gopher fans and a large fraction by Sioux fans (everyone else is more or less irrelevant in comparison to those two schools). The issue is that what fraction of the package sales are lost because North Dakota is no longer involved? My best guess is about 30% which drops the per game attendance average down to about 9,000 from 14,000 (or so).

I doubt is any of the other schools sell more than about 500 packages during an average year. The fact that the other teams that would bring in large fanbases (UMD, SCSU, & UW) miss the F5 about half of the time keeps many of those teams fans from buying packages annually as they can either get single game tickets through the box office or buy them off the secondary market.

My point is that expecting any big ten tournament at the X to duplicate the ticket sales of the F5 is setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

The tickets are not allocated by school but it is clear that a large fraction of the tickets are purchased by Gopher fans and a large fraction by Sioux fans (everyone else is more or less irrelevant in comparison to those two schools). The issue is that what fraction of the package sales are lost because North Dakota is no longer involved? My best guess is about 30% which drops the per game attendance average down to about 9,000 from 14,000 (or so).

I doubt is any of the other schools sell more than about 500 packages during an average year. The fact that the other teams that would bring in large fanbases (UMD, SCSU, & UW) miss the F5 about half of the time keeps many of those teams fans from buying packages annually as they can either get single game tickets through the box office or buy them off the secondary market.

My point is that expecting any big ten tournament at the X to duplicate the ticket sales of the F5 is setting yourself up for disappointment.

It doesn't have to duplicate the ticket sales of the Final 5. I think St Paul will draw the best regardless. Time will tell. 2013 will be in St Paul and 2014 in Detroit. I'm guessing they'll continue to rotate until it's apparent one site draws significantly better than the other.

 

[IronRangeHockey]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

It doesn't have to duplicate the ticket sales of the Final 5. I think St Paul will draw the best regardless. Time will tell. 2013 will be in St Paul and 2014 in Detroit. I'm guessing they'll continue to rotate until it's apparent one site draws significantly better than the other.

I think you're right about the X being the biggest draw, namely because MN, WI and MI will more than likely always be in it (ridiculously small conference) and theres a fairly large WI fan base living in MN.

I think it would be great to get the Bradley Center in the mix. A rotating venue between JLA, the X and Bradley Center?

 

[The Rube]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

The ONLY arena that would draw besides the X would be in MI, I think. And I doubt that, given past conference tourneys. There are a TON of "my team's conference, I'm going no matter what" people in the Twin Cities. I can't say that for MI or WI, honestly. If I'm wrong, so be it. Gimme numbers. The last F5 that was missing MN/WI drew an "average" attendance of 70K (IIRC) for the weekend. Yep.

 

[kdilks]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

O.K., I will throw this one into the "plausible theory" category.

The only thing is, I don't know how they could feasibly structure things so it would count. If there was a way, I'm sure the UC system would have done it by now so UC Berkeley could claim UCSF as their med school and basically be consenus #1 for research output in all of these metrics. And it would be even easier for UC Berkeley, since UCSF is just across the bay, and the only thing at UCSF is the med school.

 

[Caustic Undertow]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

The ONLY arena that would draw besides the X would be in MI, I think. And I doubt that, given past conference tourneys. There are a TON of "my team's conference, I'm going no matter what" people in the Twin Cities. I can't say that for MI or WI, honestly. If I'm wrong, so be it. Gimme numbers. The last F5 that was missing MN/WI drew an "average" attendance of 70K (IIRC) for the weekend. Yep.

"Missing" is a vague word, since in the currently discussed B1G tournament format, every team makes the conference tournament every year. Four of the teams play a day early, of course, but they still play. Plus, two teams get a bye to the second day every year, and realistically only four of the teams (those not connected to football programs involved in either the free distribution of tattoos or in truly unspeakable atrocity) will seriously compete for a bye every year. The chances are good that at least one local team will be guaranteed a second-day spot every year.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

"Missing" is a vague word, since in the currently discussed B1G tournament format, every team makes the conference tournament every year. Four of the teams play a day early, of course, but they still play. Plus, two teams get a bye to the second day every year, and realistically only four of the teams (those not connected to football programs involved in either the free distribution of tattoos or in truly unspeakable atrocity) will seriously compete for a bye every year. The chances are good that at least one local team will be guaranteed a second-day spot every year.

I know a majority of MN fans won't travel to MI for a tourney. Time off from work, tradition (that would now be gone), etc would take hold. Now, I'm not AGAINST Michigan location, but I can't see the money flowing there. I just can't. This is purely a follow the dollar scenario.

 

[Caustic Undertow]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

I know a majority of MN fans won't travel to MI for a tourney. Time off from work, tradition (that would now be gone), etc would take hold. Now, I'm not AGAINST Michigan location, but I can't see the money flowing there. I just can't. This is purely a follow the dollar scenario.

I wouldn't blame them a bit, that's a long drive. The discussed scenario is alternation; will they still show up in the years the X hosts? I honestly don't have any precedent to know how that will affect fans in either locale.

 

[Almington]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

"Missing" is a vague word, since in the currently discussed B1G tournament format, every team makes the conference tournament every year. Four of the teams play a day early, of course, but they still play. Plus, two teams get a bye to the second day every year, and realistically only four of the teams (those not connected to football programs involved in either the free distribution of tattoos or in truly unspeakable atrocity) will seriously compete for a bye every year. The chances are good that at least one local team will be guaranteed a second-day spot every year.

If a team plays on Thursday afternoon and no one is at the game, did they really make the tournament? What about if the local team plays on Friday afternoon but loses? I don't think that it really matters between the X or JLA because ticket sales (and actual bodies in the seats) will be nothing more than a crapshoot depending on when the local draw plays. While a UW-UMI championship at the X or a OSU-UMN championship game at JLA would be a very appealing game to the 5,000 to 7,000 diehard hockey fans, neither are going to do much to entice the casual to moderate fans of the non-playing local teams to attend.

I don't think that many will make the trip to the alternative site on a regular basis, the distances and the logistics make that an expensive undertaking.

The real issue with the alternating locations is that casual fans may get used to not going and become more likely to not go even when the tornament is in town.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

My point for Columbus in the rotation is not based on how many of our fans would show or it's location but because they would not have it on campus but at Nationwide Arena, home to be Blue Jackets which is probably the most modern and up to date arena you could ask for. They call that part of downtown the Arena District and has some of the best hotels, bars & resturants in Columbus all within a block or two of the arena. They built all this area up with the arena centralized in it just to accomodate what hockey and the facility would bring here. If any Spartan fans who post on this forum were in town this past weekend to watch their basketball team play there they will probably vouch that it's top shelf! No matter what the final decision will be, the truth is it means change for all of us from what we've been used to and it means rolling with that change or not going to the championships.

 

[Caustic Undertow]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

My point for Columbus is not based on how many of our fans would show or it's location but because they would not have it on campus but at Nationwide Arena, home to be Blue Jackets which is probably the most modern and up to date arena you could ask for. They call that part of downtown the Arena District and has some of the best hotels, bars & resturants in Columbus all within a block or two of the arena. They built all this area up with the arena centralized in it just to accomodate what hockey and the facility would bring here. If any Spartan fans who post on this forum were in town this past weekend to watch their basketball team play there they will probably vouch that it's top shelf!

I've been to both Nationwide and the X, and while Nationwide is outstanding, the X is the best arena in the country. Columbus is not close enough to the reliable draws of the Michigan fans to warrant a conference tournament until Ohio State fans demonstrate that they will attend their team's own hockey games in decent numbers. They draw well for the UM and MSU matchups, sure, but the dedicated base is just not there. Without that base the quality of the arena is irrelevant; in contrast, the JLA is a dump, but it is within 90 minutes of both Michigan and Michigan State, and so it remains in the conversation.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

I've been to both Nationwide and the X, and while Nationwide is outstanding, the X is the best arena in the country. Columbus is not close enough to the reliable draws of the Michigan fans to warrant a conference tournament until Ohio State fans demonstrate that they will attend their team's own hockey games in decent numbers. They draw well for the UM and MSU matchups, sure, but the dedicated base is just not there. Without that base the quality of the arena is irrelevant; in contrast, the JLA is a dump, but it is within 90 minutes of both Michigan and Michigan State, and so it remains in the conversation.

Like I said, I wasn't basing my opinion on Columbus based of our fans or location, just what we have to offer with facilities and amenities. I've never been to the X, do they have what we do immediately surrounding the arena to satity the needs of a hockey fan in food, spirits & accomodations? There's no need to drive anywhere here once you park if you're staying at one of the hotels by the arena.

However I will add that if it means bringing in money the powers that be at OSU will lobby hard and insist we be included in any rotation and as the largest and richest school in the Big Ten they probably have the cloute to get it. I don't approve of strong arming, I'm just saying I know too well how the clowns that run the place these days operate.

 

[TheEagle]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

I've never been to the X, do they have what we do immediately surrounding the arena to satity the needs of a hockey fan in food, spirits & accomodations? There's no need to drive anywhere here once you park if you're staying at one of the hotels by the arena.

The X is in the middle of downtown St. Paul. The Twin Cities are a metro area with over 3 million people. The area around the X is filled with hotels, plenty of bars, and some of the best restaurants in the Twin Cities. The X is one of the best rinks in America in the most hockey crazed state in the country (bordering on a Canadian-like obsession for the sport). It truly is a wonderful location for a hockey tournament. And their local college hockey team is traditionally almost on par with the University of North Dakota.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

The X is in the middle of downtown St. Paul. The Twin Cities are a metro area with over 3 million people. The area around the X is filled with hotels, plenty of bars, and some of the best restaurants in the Twin Cities. The X is one of the best rinks in America in the most hockey crazed state in the country (bordering on a Canadian-like obsession for the sport). It truly is a wonderful location for a hockey tournament. And their local college hockey team is traditionally almost on par with the University of North Dakota.

Thanks, good to know but I wouldn't want to be compared too much with Canadians. lol!

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

It doesn't really matter where the tournament is held, Minnesota is going to win it most of the time.

Possibly not the most current records, but pretty close.

Minnesota

vs Wisconsin 154-87-20 (261)
vs Michigan 127-118-15 (260)
vs Michigan State 101-43-12 (156)
vs Ohio State 12-1-0 (13)
vs Penn State 0-0-0 (0)

 

[TheEagle]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

It doesn't really matter where the tournament is held, Minnesota is going to win it most of the time.

Similarly, North Dakota has a winning record against Denver, CC, UMD, SCSU, Miami, Western Michigan. They are 3-3 vs. Nebraska-Omaha.

 

[Red Cows]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

Similarly, North Dakota has a winning record against Denver, CC, UMD, SCSU, Miami, Western Michigan. They are 3-3 vs. Nebraska-Omaha.

My family in North Dakota just seethed when I pointed their record against UNO out to them, recently, too.

 

[TheEagle]

Re: Big Ten Conference Tournament

My family in North Dakota just seethed when I pointed their record against UNO out to them, recently, too.

You have the Blaiser. We expect this to change by next year or after the Blaiser leaves at least.


Looking forward to some conference tournaments in Omaha. You guys better support it. We're counting on you. I have some friends that live in Omaha, so that would be a convenient site for me.