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Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
- Thread starter GB Puck Fan
- Start date
Beer Pong Horn
soldier of fortune
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
Indeed, but Alvarez has made it clear he wants to see a true Big Ten Hockey Conference, even if Eaves disagrees with such a drastic move right now.
The proposed Big Five/Televenths Cup is a move by Wisconsin to pull some college hockey influence from Minneapolis to Madison (we all know who dominates the WCHA leadership, and it ain't Wisconsin), as well as setting up an atmosphere where the Big Ten begins to acknowledge hockey's existence and potential profitability. I do think the cup is a good idea to bring hockey to a wider audience though. I also think that Wisconsin will lead the way in attempting to recruit other B10 schools, perhaps by scheduling a B10 ACHA squad for a preseason <s>blowout</s> game, and that's also a good thing.
If a BTHC does come about, I don't believe it will KILL HOCKEY AS WE KNOW IT. Hockey East didn't kill hockey on the east coast, though to be fair, ECAC schools are better known nationally than non-B10 WCHA and CCHA schools. Even if such a conference exists, it won't automatically be the only powerhouse, as we saw last year with the meteoric rise of Bemidji State. There's just too many good hockey players for them all to go to the B10 or HE.
EDIT: Definitely NOT looking for a Big Ten conference, but it's the most obvious choice for splitting up the overloaded WCHA and CCHA.
Indeed, but Alvarez has made it clear he wants to see a true Big Ten Hockey Conference, even if Eaves disagrees with such a drastic move right now.
The proposed Big Five/Televenths Cup is a move by Wisconsin to pull some college hockey influence from Minneapolis to Madison (we all know who dominates the WCHA leadership, and it ain't Wisconsin), as well as setting up an atmosphere where the Big Ten begins to acknowledge hockey's existence and potential profitability. I do think the cup is a good idea to bring hockey to a wider audience though. I also think that Wisconsin will lead the way in attempting to recruit other B10 schools, perhaps by scheduling a B10 ACHA squad for a preseason <s>blowout</s> game, and that's also a good thing.
If a BTHC does come about, I don't believe it will KILL HOCKEY AS WE KNOW IT. Hockey East didn't kill hockey on the east coast, though to be fair, ECAC schools are better known nationally than non-B10 WCHA and CCHA schools. Even if such a conference exists, it won't automatically be the only powerhouse, as we saw last year with the meteoric rise of Bemidji State. There's just too many good hockey players for them all to go to the B10 or HE.
EDIT: Definitely NOT looking for a Big Ten conference, but it's the most obvious choice for splitting up the overloaded WCHA and CCHA.
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Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
I don't think a BTHC will kill all the teams in the WCHA and CCHA. I imagine that the B10 schools will still likely play both of these schools in non conference games to fill schedules. Plus both conferences will still have good teams left over to pick up the slack. DU, CC, and UND in WCHA and ND and Miami in the CCHA.
Plus more B10 schools getting into the mix along with it possibly enticing other BCS schools into the mix like Syracuse would help raise the clout of the game and help in recruiting war with Major Juniors.
I don't think a BTHC will kill all the teams in the WCHA and CCHA. I imagine that the B10 schools will still likely play both of these schools in non conference games to fill schedules. Plus both conferences will still have good teams left over to pick up the slack. DU, CC, and UND in WCHA and ND and Miami in the CCHA.
Plus more B10 schools getting into the mix along with it possibly enticing other BCS schools into the mix like Syracuse would help raise the clout of the game and help in recruiting war with Major Juniors.
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
He has? Where?
Alvarez has floated lots of ideas, and the one definitive idea he did float (for Wisconsin to join the CCHA) was clearly a shot across Maturi's bow to get his head out of the sand and actually discuss things.
This whole thing is the 800 lb Gorilla in the room that nobody seems to want to discuss, despite the obvious problems with the current system. I commend Alvarez for pushing the discussion forward.
Overloaded is right. Two 12-team conferences is not sustainable.
Personally, I think the Big Ten Cup presents an interesting opportunity. It provides an avenue for teams with lots of resources to flex their muscle a bit, but it also opens the door (via more non-conference games) for smaller schools to stick around. That helps spread the wealth around a little more, and maybe would help keep a smaller conference like CHA afloat
We all love the fact that college hockey has the traditional haves and have nots playing side by side, but that's really not the way you get the long-term success - it's simply a product of being in a very small pond. The current system is still a small pond, but it's too crowded and offers more potential for contraction than it does for growth.
He has? Where?
Alvarez has floated lots of ideas, and the one definitive idea he did float (for Wisconsin to join the CCHA) was clearly a shot across Maturi's bow to get his head out of the sand and actually discuss things.
This whole thing is the 800 lb Gorilla in the room that nobody seems to want to discuss, despite the obvious problems with the current system. I commend Alvarez for pushing the discussion forward.
Overloaded is right. Two 12-team conferences is not sustainable.
Personally, I think the Big Ten Cup presents an interesting opportunity. It provides an avenue for teams with lots of resources to flex their muscle a bit, but it also opens the door (via more non-conference games) for smaller schools to stick around. That helps spread the wealth around a little more, and maybe would help keep a smaller conference like CHA afloat
We all love the fact that college hockey has the traditional haves and have nots playing side by side, but that's really not the way you get the long-term success - it's simply a product of being in a very small pond. The current system is still a small pond, but it's too crowded and offers more potential for contraction than it does for growth.
Beer Pong Horn
soldier of fortune
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
Maybe - there are only so many men's hockey recruits available. Of those recruits, we'll say that about half are Canadian, and half of those are probably locked into the MJ circuit already (either in writing or verbally.) Another quarter wouldn't mind playing college hockey, but can't or won't go to the US or to college. That leaves at most a quarter of all Canadian recruits, which is probably both optimistic and the bottom quarter.
Meanwhile stateside, perhaps a quarter of kids don't want to/can't be a student athlete, another eighth would play college hockey if there was a team near them (western and southern recruits), and another eighth of them are locked into MJs. So, perhaps half, though colleges tend to get the better American players.
We'll say that three-eighths of all worthwhile recruits are available to play hockey in US schools. The four options for expanded NCAA recruitment are:
-recruiting at the expense of MJs (requiring better scholarship options, better chances for getting to the NHL and an NCAA rule allowing low-time MJ players to play in college)
-expanded recruitment in non-traditional hockey areas (requiring a larger presence in those areas - the South, the West, etc.)
-expanded recruitment from overseas (requiring many more recruiters to scout non-traditional venues and the WJC, and a higher US collegiate presence overseas)
-lower quality recruits (requiring nothing, but losing ground to MJs)
Hopefully Paul Kelly will be able to shore up the NCAA's recruiting, so it can be ready for a new conference when it shows up.
Maybe - there are only so many men's hockey recruits available. Of those recruits, we'll say that about half are Canadian, and half of those are probably locked into the MJ circuit already (either in writing or verbally.) Another quarter wouldn't mind playing college hockey, but can't or won't go to the US or to college. That leaves at most a quarter of all Canadian recruits, which is probably both optimistic and the bottom quarter.
Meanwhile stateside, perhaps a quarter of kids don't want to/can't be a student athlete, another eighth would play college hockey if there was a team near them (western and southern recruits), and another eighth of them are locked into MJs. So, perhaps half, though colleges tend to get the better American players.
We'll say that three-eighths of all worthwhile recruits are available to play hockey in US schools. The four options for expanded NCAA recruitment are:
-recruiting at the expense of MJs (requiring better scholarship options, better chances for getting to the NHL and an NCAA rule allowing low-time MJ players to play in college)
-expanded recruitment in non-traditional hockey areas (requiring a larger presence in those areas - the South, the West, etc.)
-expanded recruitment from overseas (requiring many more recruiters to scout non-traditional venues and the WJC, and a higher US collegiate presence overseas)
-lower quality recruits (requiring nothing, but losing ground to MJs)
Hopefully Paul Kelly will be able to shore up the NCAA's recruiting, so it can be ready for a new conference when it shows up.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
The one thing I'm worried about with more non-conference games is what happens with the smaller football programs right now: teams being unable to get home non-conference games. Look at what happened to Hofstra football and compare that to the kinds of schedules that UAH and Robert Morris have had in recent years...
The one thing I'm worried about with more non-conference games is what happens with the smaller football programs right now: teams being unable to get home non-conference games. Look at what happened to Hofstra football and compare that to the kinds of schedules that UAH and Robert Morris have had in recent years...
UMICHhockeyRULZ
A guy who loves Blue Ice...
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
Don't worry, it's not gonna happen.
Don't worry, it's not gonna happen.
Beer Pong Horn
soldier of fortune
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
But what about after you retire, Mr. Martin?
None of us know what's going on in the Big Ten offices or at any of the universities.
But what about after you retire, Mr. Martin?
None of us know what's going on in the Big Ten offices or at any of the universities.
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
Where's the talent coming from?? Why the USA Hockey ADM, of course!
How about Four 6-team conferences? That allows expansion of 8 teams to get to 32 West teams.
Where's the talent coming from?? Why the USA Hockey ADM, of course!
UMICHhockeyRULZ
A guy who loves Blue Ice...
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
True, we don't know what is going on in the Big Ten offices, et al. but look at the situation logically. It isn't gonna happen.
But what about after you retire, Mr. Martin?
None of us know what's going on in the Big Ten offices or at any of the universities.
True, we don't know what is going on in the Big Ten offices, et al. but look at the situation logically. It isn't gonna happen.
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
Why? I see no downside for the 5 Big Ten schools to try and form a scheduling agreement that will allow then to play two games against each other every year, even if it requires pushing through a reduction in conference games to 22 or 24 for the CCHA and WCHA. The fact of the matter is that the conferences need the B10 schools more then the B10 schools need the conferences.
Why? I see no downside for the 5 Big Ten schools to try and form a scheduling agreement that will allow then to play two games against each other every year, even if it requires pushing through a reduction in conference games to 22 or 24 for the CCHA and WCHA. The fact of the matter is that the conferences need the B10 schools more then the B10 schools need the conferences.
Happy
Registered User
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
strange things happen to make tv happy. look at the bizare 2009 World Series of Poker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_Nine
just to make tv happy.
The Big Ten network has only a few options to offer better tv than it does now, and hockey is one of them.
strange things happen to make tv happy. look at the bizare 2009 World Series of Poker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_Nine
just to make tv happy.
The Big Ten network has only a few options to offer better tv than it does now, and hockey is one of them.
Puck Swami
New member
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
Those programs you cite won't be that good after a big 10 HC. They will go from elite level programs now to mid-major irrelevant within 5 years if a Big10HC comes to fruition. The best players want to play in the best league against the best schools. The Big 10 would be the best league overnight - more money, more TV, more exposure, bigger fanbases. The once proud WCHA and CCHA would lose its mealticket schools overnight, its primary tourney revenue base, its TV contracts and become an underfunded mid-major leagues of teams that cannot get the top level player. The top level player that came to Denver today to play in the WCHA will be going to Ohio State instead. Guaranteed.
Those programs you cite won't be that good after a big 10 HC. They will go from elite level programs now to mid-major irrelevant within 5 years if a Big10HC comes to fruition. The best players want to play in the best league against the best schools. The Big 10 would be the best league overnight - more money, more TV, more exposure, bigger fanbases. The once proud WCHA and CCHA would lose its mealticket schools overnight, its primary tourney revenue base, its TV contracts and become an underfunded mid-major leagues of teams that cannot get the top level player. The top level player that came to Denver today to play in the WCHA will be going to Ohio State instead. Guaranteed.
VarsityWisconsin
Registered User
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
That sounds a little paranoid to me. You don't think players are going to want to play for the great Gwoz or ignore the tradition of UND? I'm having a hard time buying into the idea that traditional powerhouse programs like UND and Denver turning into Mid Majors.
That sounds a little paranoid to me. You don't think players are going to want to play for the great Gwoz or ignore the tradition of UND? I'm having a hard time buying into the idea that traditional powerhouse programs like UND and Denver turning into Mid Majors.
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
Swami,
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the idea of a Big Ten Cup - reducing the WCHA/CCHA schedules to 20-24 games, and for the Big Ten schools to use those new OOC games for a Cup competition. I know you've spoken positively about the idea of reducing conference season length before, so I'm curious how this sits with you...
Swami,
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the idea of a Big Ten Cup - reducing the WCHA/CCHA schedules to 20-24 games, and for the Big Ten schools to use those new OOC games for a Cup competition. I know you've spoken positively about the idea of reducing conference season length before, so I'm curious how this sits with you...
UMICHhockeyRULZ
A guy who loves Blue Ice...
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
I'm not Swami, or maybe I am...?
But on one hand I like a Big Ten Cup. On the other hand it cheats the conference. The conference would lose integrity then as each team would only play each other twice.
I'm not Swami, or maybe I am...?
But on one hand I like a Big Ten Cup. On the other hand it cheats the conference. The conference would lose integrity then as each team would only play each other twice.
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
They effectively only play each other twice as it is, as it is that would be a generally far more balanced option because then everyone would have the same schedules (except for a rival, and home/away split) making the conference standing as better representation of which is a better team.
They effectively only play each other twice as it is, as it is that would be a generally far more balanced option because then everyone would have the same schedules (except for a rival, and home/away split) making the conference standing as better representation of which is a better team.
Wildpantswilly
I wouldn't send my cat to LSCC
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
This is absolutely what will happen.
If you think schools like Miami, Denver, and Notre Dame are going to have trouble competing, how about the schools like Northern, Tech, and Ferris that barely have enough money to compete now, but still keep respectable records and make a run for the NCAA's occasionally? Would a story like Bemidji State be possible with a BTHC? There is a better chance of Sarah Palin getting into MENSA than underdog schools competing in such a conference. You will be looking at 5-10 teams contracting in 5-10 years, guaranteed.
This is absolutely what will happen.
If you think schools like Miami, Denver, and Notre Dame are going to have trouble competing, how about the schools like Northern, Tech, and Ferris that barely have enough money to compete now, but still keep respectable records and make a run for the NCAA's occasionally? Would a story like Bemidji State be possible with a BTHC? There is a better chance of Sarah Palin getting into MENSA than underdog schools competing in such a conference. You will be looking at 5-10 teams contracting in 5-10 years, guaranteed.
Re: Big Ten conference discussed, rejected
First off we probably will never see if a Big Ten conference ever comes into fruition.
Currently, the Big Ten has five teams playing college hockey and quite frankly I would venture to guess they need at least two or more schools not playing the game before they ever start up a fake Big Ten conference.
IMO, the Big Ten needs all 11 schools playing the game of ice hockey before any other conferences turn to mid-major overnight. It will never happen in my lifetime. There is no denying it would be great for college hockey if the Big Ten did add more teams to the mix but I am not going to get all worked up over a conference that is still a paper tiger.
First off we probably will never see if a Big Ten conference ever comes into fruition.
Currently, the Big Ten has five teams playing college hockey and quite frankly I would venture to guess they need at least two or more schools not playing the game before they ever start up a fake Big Ten conference.
IMO, the Big Ten needs all 11 schools playing the game of ice hockey before any other conferences turn to mid-major overnight. It will never happen in my lifetime. There is no denying it would be great for college hockey if the Big Ten did add more teams to the mix but I am not going to get all worked up over a conference that is still a paper tiger.