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Big Ten 2015-2016

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

I think school proximity and tournament locations would be two major independent variables under consideration in the foregoing expansion process of BTHC in future years. Others would include negotiating the entry level standards for affiliate membership (e.g. Notre Dame), startup vs established hockey traditions and fanbases, broader conference alliance through partnerships in various sports, major media and sponsorship revenue, and market expansion of the media footprint. Arguably, it will take time to expand and build a Big Ten hockey tradition that rivals the old WCHA in popularity and attendance. But to say it will "never" happen is a bit reductionist and myopic.

It's noteworthy that we are in a different time in college sports today than when the old WCHA was formed. As I mentioned in a previous post, Big Ten sports today is in fact primarily money driven with entertainment value for the average fan running a very close second. Media exposure is everything for the Big Ten. In the landscape of conference expansion and media $$$ over the past decade among power 5 conferences, it is becoming the battle of the fittest. The Big Ten has in fact been on the leading edge of it in other non-niche college sports and stands to become the largest media revenue generating machine in college sports.

But make no mistake about it, BTHC expansion is in the works. But the Big Ten also has a more comprehensive emphasis on expanding the collaborative BTN, ESPN/ABC and CBS footprint in other major college sports. As I mentioned, the Big Ten will be looking at significant increases when those media contracts expire next year from its 10-year, $1 billion deal with ESPN/ABC for football and basketball and 6-year, $72 million pact with CBS for basketball. It already has a 25-year, $2.8 billion deal with the league-run BTN that extends through 2031-32. That's why they're is not overly concerned that college hockey venues like the X or the Joe are 80-90% empty because they understand it's a niche media market with 6 teams that will not yield significant revenue in it's present form compared to other major college sports.

But I disagree that it's impossible to "create" a vibrant tournament atmosphere in the future similar to the WCHA F5. However, it becomes a little more of a challenge with college hockey as a niche sport with the enigma of travel distances. In the future it's feasible we may be looking at something of a divisional "mantra" (not exactly like the one below but an adaptation) along with additional affiliate members in men's ice hockey as when the B1G moved to 14 teams, and dumped the Legends and Leaders divisions to set up a divisional structure based on geography.

<img alt="" rel="lightbox" src="http://bigtennetworks.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/east-west33.jpg?w=640">

How about:

Big Ten East (all games televised on BTN - Conference Tournament at the United Center)
Wisconsin
Notre Dame
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State

Big Ten West (all games televised on FSN - Conference Tournament at Xcel Center)
North Dakota
Minnesota
Minnesota-Duluth
St. Cloud State
Minnesota State-Mankato
Bemidji State
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

I agree about the down turn but I don't think the league having only 6 teams and playing each other four times can be over emphasized. I would argue that six teams from any league would be greatly hurt in the pairwise if they played a schedule like the B1G teams. I'm not talking about the strength of schedule, rather the playIng four games (2 home / 2 away) against five teams and 12+ non-conference games. I don't know that the ECAC, HE, or NCHC would be as bad but I haven't run a RPI/pairwise simulation to find out. It is just a hypothesis.

Oh and I agree the Chicago option is probably out now but who knows when the St. Paul / Detroit deals run out, maybe they will re-consider it.

I don't think it has anything to do with playing each other 4 times.

The math of the PWR right now means that whichever conference does better in out-of-conference play is going to have a severe advantage in the RPI, thus in the PWR. Simpy, what has happened is that Minn and others have been losing non-conf games they should have won.

If Minny goes 12-2 non-conf next year, and Mich goes 9-5, watch the difference.
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

I took one of my kids to the B1G semi for the Michigan game, a 2.5 hour drive down from Duluth. We had a blast, things worked out better than I could have expected, given the tepid feedback from previous B1G tourneys, but then again, that was kind of a feature rather than a bug. Concourses were empty, lines nonexistent, parking easy to get in and out--it was easiest access to a sporting event in my life. We just plain had fun. For a Michigan fan, the game was a blast as well. If the B1G tournament re-ups with the X, I'll definitely try to go back.

But it shouldn't re-up with the X. There's lots of conversation in this thread about it, but the results speak for themselves. This tournament significantly underperforms both the Final Five (no surprise) and the CCHA tournament (larger surprise). The reasons are evident, and a tournament that is unexciting to attend just doesn't draw even local fans with rooting interest. The tournament absolutely needs to become a home site event.

Now, about some of the arguments:

I appreciate what you're saying alfablue (I honestly do) but I, for one, will never support B1G hockey. It's been a disaster from day one and it'll remain a disaster. I think in the minds of many fans it IS conceivable that it'll eventually go away if this fan revolt continues for long enough. Personally, I enjoy seeing the conference getting embarrassed on their own network by 17,000+ empty seats. I enjoyed seeing the Gopher fan on the glass with his "B1G MISTAKE" jersey yesterday. The ripple effect caused by this dreadful conference has severely damaged college hockey and we're supposed to accept it? I don't. I won't.

"Severely damaged college hockey" is a statement that has no relationship with the facts. Those who have been around this forum for a while remember the constant drumbeat of "This is how we should re-align college hockey" threads that tried to theorize solutions to the conference gridlock problem. And it was definitely a problem--smaller programs were dying, others were on life support, and the only real path forward for smaller schools was to join a significant conference. And all of the conferences were full. Additionally, there was little space for teams to schedule non-conference games, and programs could go years without ever playing a decent team from outside of their region. People talked about schools adding college hockey, but it was a pipe-dream. There was nowhere for a new program to go.

Except for Penn State, to a new Big Ten conference.

The static death spiral of college hockey was a concern; it is not anymore. And the non-football schools are as successful as ever. As someone who hoped for growth and health in the sport, I believe that the B1G provided a vital realignment that has made it possible.

Now, has this omelette broken some eggs? Definitely. The Final Five was a crown jewel of the sport, and it is gone and lamented. For Big Ten teams, the loss of local road-trip rivalries is disappointing. That was a real appeal to me when I lived in Michigan and travelled to Kalamazoo, Bowling Green, Big Rapids, and so on. It's a problem up here in Minnesota, as well.

But the Big Ten can deal with all of that. There are real rivalries among these teams, as well. The problem has been a lousy tournament and, most of all, historically good programs fielding terrible teams. Wisconsin and Michigan State have both won national titles in the last decade and are national embarrassments. Ohio State never realizes the potential that should be found in its structure and facilities. And Michigan and Minnesota are "leading" the conference with teams that are mediocre by their own standards. Michigan will make the NCAA tournament as a Big Ten team for the first time this year, and Minnesota needs to win just to make it as a 4 seed.

That's the problem. The Big Ten should be able to put three or four teams into every tournament. Instead, it gets one or two. One of the great things about college hockey is ramping up for a "big series" against a rival or a top team; the B1G doesn't have much in the way of top teams, and Michigan and Minnesota fans can't get up for their major conference rivals when they literally pity the horrible programs they are playing against. It's not the same.

It can get better. Home sites for the tournament. Add a couple of teams, perhaps by associate membership. Quit the Friday-Sunday or Thursday-Saturday series. And get good coaches in Madison and East Lansing.

There will be things we will miss. But there can be new, great things to see.
 
I took one of my kids to the B1G semi for the Michigan game, a 2.5 hour drive down from Duluth. We had a blast, things worked out better than I could have expected, given the tepid feedback from previous B1G tourneys, but then again, that was kind of a feature rather than a bug. Concourses were empty, lines nonexistent, parking easy to get in and out--it was easiest access to a sporting event in my life. We just plain had fun. For a Michigan fan, the game was a blast as well. If the B1G tournament re-ups with the X, I'll definitely try to go back.

But it shouldn't re-up with the X. There's lots of conversation in this thread about it, but the results speak for themselves. This tournament significantly underperforms both the Final Five (no surprise) and the CCHA tournament (larger surprise). The reasons are evident, and a tournament that is unexciting to attend just doesn't draw even local fans with rooting interest. The tournament absolutely needs to become a home site event.

Now, about some of the arguments:



"Severely damaged college hockey" is a statement that has no relationship with the facts. Those who have been around this forum for a while remember the constant drumbeat of "This is how we should re-align college hockey" threads that tried to theorize solutions to the conference gridlock problem. And it was definitely a problem--smaller programs were dying, others were on life support, and the only real path forward for smaller schools was to join a significant conference. And all of the conferences were full. Additionally, there was little space for teams to schedule non-conference games, and programs could go years without ever playing a decent team from outside of their region. People talked about schools adding college hockey, but it was a pipe-dream. There was nowhere for a new program to go.

Except for Penn State, to a new Big Ten conference.

The static death spiral of college hockey was a concern; it is not anymore. And the non-football schools are as successful as ever. As someone who hoped for growth and health in the sport, I believe that the B1G provided a vital realignment that has made it possible.

Now, has this omelette broken some eggs? Definitely. The Final Five was a crown jewel of the sport, and it is gone and lamented. For Big Ten teams, the loss of local road-trip rivalries is disappointing. That was a real appeal to me when I lived in Michigan and travelled to Kalamazoo, Bowling Green, Big Rapids, and so on. It's a problem up here in Minnesota, as well.

But the Big Ten can deal with all of that. There are real rivalries among these teams, as well. The problem has been a lousy tournament and, most of all, historically good programs fielding terrible teams. Wisconsin and Michigan State have both won national titles in the last decade and are national embarrassments. Ohio State never realizes the potential that should be found in its structure and facilities. And Michigan and Minnesota are "leading" the conference with teams that are mediocre by their own standards. Michigan will make the NCAA tournament as a Big Ten team for the first time this year, and Minnesota needs to win just to make it as a 4 seed.

That's the problem. The Big Ten should be able to put three or four teams into every tournament. Instead, it gets one or two. One of the great things about college hockey is ramping up for a "big series" against a rival or a top team; the B1G doesn't have much in the way of top teams, and Michigan and Minnesota fans can't get up for their major conference rivals when they literally pity the horrible programs they are playing against. It's not the same.

It can get better. Home sites for the tournament. Add a couple of teams, perhaps by associate membership. Quit the Friday-Sunday or Thursday-Saturday series. And get good coaches in Madison and East Lansing.

There will be things we will miss. But there can be new, great things to see.

All around fantastic post.
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

I appreciate what you're saying alfablue (I honestly do) but I, for one, will never support B1G hockey. It's been a disaster from day one and it'll remain a disaster. I think in the minds of many fans it IS conceivable that it'll eventually go away if this fan revolt continues for long enough. Personally, I enjoy seeing the conference getting embarrassed on their own network by 17,000+ empty seats. I enjoyed seeing the Gopher fan on the glass with his "B1G MISTAKE" jersey yesterday. The ripple effect caused by this dreadful conference has severely damaged college hockey and we're supposed to accept it? I don't. I won't.

I have a very simple question, then. Why are you here? Why are you on USCHO in the first place?

I suspect it's because you are a fan on Minnesota.

So if you are, why do you want to see the conference that your school is in fail? I get that people miss the WCHA and the CCHA- there's no question about that what so ever.

But things are not going to change anytime soon. No, I take that back- I don't think this is ever going to change. If it does, it will be with the addition of teams and not a crumbling of the conference- without a doubt, the B1G can be the biggest failure, and it will still have the B1G behind it PLUS all the money BTN brings- which will nullify any financial problems the hockey conference has.

This conference is NOT going anywhere. It's time that we all learn how to deal with that.

In other words, if you are not going to support B1G hockey, might as well stop wasting your time rooting for your team that is in the B1G Hockey Conference.

For the championship- we need 8 teams so that this weekend is only 4 teams. And we need the teams to stop sucking so much- and that goes for everyone. I have no idea what happens at the beginning of the season that we all suck that bad, but it happens. Once the tournament has 2-3 teams that are in regardless, that will help.
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

We'll have more fans than Detroit. That being said Gopher Hockey is taking a bit of a hit around here. Increased Wild interest, the Big 10 change, and a not so very exciting squad this season are all contributing to that. But, it shouldn't fall on Minnesota to fix the Big 10 problems. Of all the schools Minnesota was the only one who spoke out against the idea and warned everyone what might occur.

So far, not yet. There were 1000 more pathetic fans in Detroit on Friday night a year ago than last night at the X. We'll see tonight. It will just take 1100 more.

Nobody is asking Minnesota to solve the problem. But don't make it worse. A year ago, the Joe at least had more fans than Yost would hold. So one could expect that the X would have nearly as many fans as your stadium. In fact, it was close to half.

While I get people not liking the B1G, which is going to take a while, I don't get NOT supporting your team. Scooby- you love to brag about how miserable you are. Congratulations. Please don't drag everyone into that craphole you have made. Let everyone else deal with reality.
 
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Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

In other words, if you are not going to support B1G hockey, might as well stop wasting your time rooting for your team that is in the B1G Hockey Conference.

Well, I don't agree with that. I've had season tickets both nights for decades. Considering the Badgers performance the last two seasons, I don't think my support can be questioned. I just don't get excited that our opponent is a Big Ten Team. With the exception of the Gophers, a conference opponent might as well be from Timbuktu.
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

So far, not yet. There were 1000 more pathetic fans in Detroit on Friday night a year ago than last night at the X. We'll see tonight. It will just take 1100 more.

Nobody is asking Minnesota to solve the problem. But don't make it worse. A year ago, the Joe at least had more fans than Yost would hold. So one could expect that the X would have nearly as many fans as your stadium. In fact, it was close to half.

While I get people not liking the B1G, which is going to take a while, I don't get NOT supporting your team. Scooby- you love to brag about how miserable you are. Congratulations. Please don't drag everyone into that craphole you have made. Let everyone else deal with reality.

You are missing the point that MN went from the best attended college conference playoffs, to this. I don't know if the big ten at the Joe is better or worse than the CCHA, but it is way worse than what MN had come to expect. the entertainment value drop is greater than the attendance drop.
 
As an outsider (BU fan) I am shocked how empty the XCel Center is. I know there are many people not thrilled at the Big 10 but with these two schools I expected a fairly full arena.
 
As an outsider (BU fan) I am shocked how empty the XCel Center is. I know there are many people not thrilled at the Big 10 but with these two schools I expected a fairly full arena.

I heard a rumor about tickets being way overpriced. Can anybody here either confirm or deny this?
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

It seems to me that UMinn and UW both drew short straws in the B1G deal. Now, if they had been able to transport those Eisenhower era Michigan teams, then maybe . . .
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

As an outsider (BU fan) I am shocked how empty the XCel Center is. I know there are many people not thrilled at the Big 10 but with these two schools I expected a fairly full arena.

It wasn't for lack of trying by the league. They had my name as a long-time WCHA Final 5 ticket holder, and I went to the first Big 10 tournament at the Xcel. I received at least six to eight calls at home trying to get my to purchase. Don't remember what they cost.
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Were ticket prices last year just as ridiculous as this year? And if we're talking a difference of 1,000 bodies when it's 90% empty regardless is a bit missing the forest...
 
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Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Congratulations to the Wolverines. Hell of a team to play against and that top line is tremendous. If you get solid team defense in the NCAAs they'll be very tough to play against.
 
Congratulations to the Wolverines. Hell of a team to play against and that top line is tremendous. If you get solid team defense in the NCAAs they'll be very tough to play against.

They're a great team, and they proved it tonight. With the Gophers season now over I will be cheering for Michigan all the way as a matter of conference pride.
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Congratulations to the Wolverines. Hell of a team to play against and that top line is tremendous. If you get solid team defense in the NCAAs they'll be very tough to play against.

I concur. U-Mi puts a lot of pressure on a team defensively, they definitely caused MN to adjust from its usual game plan of pinching dman & getting several players deep offensively as they had to respect the Wolverine's speed. It was a fun game to watch and best of luck in the tourney.
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Well, I don't agree with that. I've had season tickets both nights for decades. Considering the Badgers performance the last two seasons, I don't think my support can be questioned. I just don't get excited that our opponent is a Big Ten Team. With the exception of the Gophers, a conference opponent might as well be from Timbuktu.

So you are excited about just two home games all year? That's it? Why go to the rest, then? I don't get it.

Send all of that money and not be happy with the opponent? Sure seems like a waste of money.

You do know this isn't going to change anytime, don't you?
 
Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Congratulations to the Wolverines. Hell of a team to play against and that top line is tremendous. If you get solid team defense in the NCAAs they'll be very tough to play against.

I really think not having to play the same team in a weekend twice is a key thing.

GLI, this week. There's just something about that second night that doesn't work. Happened twice against you people, Wisconsin twice.
 
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