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Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

LynahFan said:
Well, at least those are concrete goals, even if #3 and #4 are the only ones with a snowball's chance of even entering serious debate.

If corporations were denied the rights to due process, jury trials, freedom from unreasonable searches, freedom of speech, etc, which all derive from their "personhood," would the government be footing the bill to re-train us for the resulting subsistence-agrarian society that would be the inevitable result? No investor in his right mind would put his money into a corporation that lacked those rights. If the protesters think things are bad now *with* the corporations, they obviously haven't really thought through what things would be like *without* them. Were we all really that much better off in 1811 than we are in 2011?
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Corporations were never meant to be what they've become, and the question of corporate personhood was never actually addressed by SCOTUS.

Exactly why should those corporations have the rights you list? Those are rights people have, not corporations. Since PEOPLE are employed by corporations, they would still have those rights as individuals.

Day_7_Occupy_Wall_Street_September_23_2011_Shankbone.jpg
 
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Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Priceless said:
Corporations were never meant to be what they've become, and the question of corporate personhood was never actually addressed by SCOTUS.
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No, but many rulings are based on corporate personhood. In that sense, SCOTUS has assumed that corporate personhood is not even something that *needs* to be ruled on - it's an axiom, not a theorem. They've had many opportunities to deny corporations the rights of individuals and have (nearly without exception) declined to do so.

Exactly why should those corporations have the rights you list? Those are rights people have, not corporations. Since PEOPLE are employed by corporations, they would still have those rights as individuals.
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If corporations have no rights and cannot be treated as a single legal entity, we would also (ironically) lose a large measure of our ability to curtail their power. If a corporation is not a person, how could anyone sue one in a court of law? How could they sue each other? How could a corporation be fined for violating environmental regulations? Would the government have to individually prosecute and fine each person who participated in the violation instead? What about those who merely knew about it? Or should have known about it? If a corporation is not a person, how can it own property, enter into contracts, or perform any of the hundreds of legal actions that it needs to execute in order to function?

The implications of taking personhood away from corporations extends far past the limited issue which the protesters seem to care about, which appears to be the influence of corporate money on elections and therefore lawmaking. Stipulating that this is, in fact, a problem, I would still think that it could be addressed without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Damn those anarchists! Stopping foreclosures would be madness! MADNESS!


In 2008, shortly after the Pyrons purchased their home but before the title to the estate was transferred, the responsible company went bankrupt. Never notified of the situation, the family continued for two years to make mortgage payments to their lender Bank of America, according to MyFoxHouston. Those payments, however, never reached Wells Fargo, the mortgage-holder previous to the Pyron's purchase of the home.

"We did everything we were supposed to do," Brian Pyron told MyFoxHouston. "Nobody has communicated with us, notified us. We had been paying our mortgage and everything."

Stories like that of the Pyron's have become familiar since the recession. In August, a senior couple in Florida faced foreclosure not for missing a payment, but for sending a check too early.

In June it was reported that a man in Massachusetts was facing foreclosure over a $0.00 payment that Bank of America said he owed. More recently a Florida resident nearly lost her condo over what had originally been a fee of $4.70.

Millions have undergone foreclosure in recent years. In August, foreclosure sales accounted for six times more home purchases than they would in a healthy housing market, according to experts.
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Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Priceless said:
Damn those anarchists! Stopping foreclosures would be madness! MADNESS!
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Not madness - just a massive transfer of wealth from the banks' investors to insolvent people who are under water. Your opinion of whether that's a good idea or not may vary...
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

LynahFan said:
Not madness - just a massive transfer of wealth from the banks' investors to insolvent people who are under water. Your opinion of whether that's a good idea or not may vary...
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Consider the demand isn't even canceling foreclosures, but placing a moratorium on them. It's not like the banks are giving this land away or the government is seizing it from them, just maybe it's a good idea not to toss a bunch of families onto the street in he middle of an economic collapse.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Priceless said:
Consider the demand isn't even canceling foreclosures, but placing a moratorium on them. It's not like the banks are giving this land away or the government is seizing it from them, just maybe it's a good idea not to toss a bunch of families onto the street in he middle of an economic collapse.
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But during the moratorium, the homeowners get to stay in the houses without paying their mortgages, right? That sure sounds like giving them something for free to me. And the banks have a ton of capital invested in those properties that would not be making a return during the moratorium - sounds like it's costing them something. Dunno how you do math, but that sure sounds like taking something from the banks and giving it to the homeowners.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

LynahFan said:
But during the moratorium, the homeowners get to stay in the houses without paying their mortgages, right? That sure sounds like giving them something for free to me. And the banks have a ton of capital invested in those properties that would not be making a return during the moratorium - sounds like it's costing them something. Dunno how you do math, but that sure sounds like taking something from the banks and giving it to the homeowners.
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They'd be staying in the house, but still owe rent/mortgage. When they are back on their feet financially they can pay back the mortgages.

Or the precious investors can get pennies on the dollar through foreclosure and we can increase the homeless population. That sounds much better.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Priceless said:
They'd be staying in the house, but still owe rent/mortgage. When they are back on their feet financially they can pay back the mortgages.
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Why do you have such a hard time admitting that this will cost the banks money? Can I borrow some money from you interest-free until I get back on my feet?

Or the precious investors can get pennies on the dollar through foreclosure and we can increase the homeless population. That sounds much better.
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If the banks thought that letting the homeowners live in the houses rent-free for a while were a better option, they would already be doing it. When a bank forecloses, it is the lesser of two bad options that it has - it's a last resort to cut their losses.

The fact is that we built too darn much housing in this country, and too much of it was in the high-priced "luxury" market. The price of those houses must come down - simple supply and demand. Propping up a bloated market only extends the time of misery. It's better to rip off that band aid and get started on the road to recovery now.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

LynahFan said:
Why do you have such a hard time admitting that this will cost the banks money? Can I borrow some money from you interest-free until I get back on my feet?


If the banks thought that letting the homeowners live in the houses rent-free for a while were a better option, they would already be doing it. When a bank forecloses, it is the lesser of two bad options that it has - it's a last resort to cut their losses.

The fact is that we built too darn much housing in this country, and too much of it was in the high-priced "luxury" market. The price of those houses must come down - simple supply and demand. Propping up a bloated market only extends the time of misery. It's better to rip off that band aid and get started on the road to recovery now.
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I guess it's just luck that the people ripping the band-aid off are "job creators" and those suffering the pain are...um...not.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Priceless said:
I guess it's just luck that the people ripping the band-aid off are "job creators" and those suffering the pain are...um...not.
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Not really.

Job Creators have an easier job creating as their taxes go to zero. We're just not doing a good enough job for them.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Subscribed because if I don't, my bank is going to charge me a $5 fee.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Priceless said:
I guess it's just luck that the people ripping the band-aid off are "job creators" and those suffering the pain are...um...not.
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Yeah, I mean, why should we allow luck to have any hand in things when we could just have a powerful nanny state step in and enforce equality of outcome for all?

The homeowners signed contracts, and those still mean something. If there are instances of fraud, false advertising, or negligence on the part of the lenders, by all means bring those specific cases to light and prosecute to the full extent of the law. But if the government gets into the habit of broad-brush meddling in legal contracts, the markets will tank in a way that would make the ride so far seem like a kiddie coaster. Investors hate uncertainty - that's why contracts exist in the first place. If they have to start doubting the certainty of contracts in the US, they will turn to other markets so fast it will make your head spin. Maybe (just maybe) then people would start to realize how many American jobs actually *do* depend on having a strong Wall Street underwriting Main Street.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

I have a Modest Proposal: If the government wanted to actually fix the problem they should just borrow the tillions that it would take to pay off everyones existing first mortgage. Banks win, homeowners win, politicians get reelected, and the housing market and broader economy get saved. Sounds like a win-win to me. The resulting economic boom will allow us to pay off the debt in no time flat.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Almington said:
I have a Modest Proposal: If the government wanted to actually fix the problem they should just borrow the tillions that it would take to pay off everyones existing first mortgage. Banks win, homeowners win, politicians get reelected, and the housing market and broader economy get saved. Sounds like a win-win to me. The resulting economic boom will allow us to pay off the debt in no time flat.
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So this is similar in tone and intent to the original "A Modest Proposal" in response to "the Irish Problem" eh?
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0aaTGsGdp4c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The Marines use...um..."colorful" language so this clip may be NSFW. (I know..a Marine cursing? What the?)
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

How dare they besmirch a real American hero like Sean Hannity. I weep for this nation.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

Almington said:
I have a Modest Proposal: If the government wanted to actually fix the problem they should just borrow the tillions that it would take to pay off everyones existing first mortgage. Banks win, homeowners win, politicians get reelected, and the housing market and broader economy get saved. Sounds like a win-win to me. The resulting economic boom will allow us to pay off the debt in no time flat.
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Wow...it's been almost two hours and no one has screamed "Socialism!" yet...such restraint from this crowd :p

Needless to say, this idea has my backing, for what little its worth.
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

What ever happened to people being able to think for themselves, making intelligent decisions to better their lives, and being accountable for bad decisions?
 
Re: Banks, Credit Unions, and Fees: Oh my!

FlagDUDE08 said:
What ever happened to people being able to think for themselves, making intelligent decisions to better their lives, and being accountable for bad decisions?
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Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations sit there in their... in their corporation buildings, and... and, and see, they're all corporation-y... and they make money.
 
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